Taylor Swift made $80MM last year...

[Texas Proud]

Every Jan 2, you can count on a story in the news how the top CEO's made more by lunch that day than the average worker will all year...but, they never write a story on how Taylor Swift made more by lunch than the average lounge singer or the guy who played drums on her last CD.

It's always the CEO's that get dumped on, while celebrities and musicians get a free pass.



If you want to remove the cap on SS contributions, then to be fair, the SS payout must also go up an equivalent amount.

One of the problems is that CEOs can get a boat load of money and not be any good... I am bad with names, but I bet someone can give examples... one is Johnson at JC Penny.... I think Meyer at Yahoo has not been great... the guy who heads Sears...


If you are a performer, you ONLY get paid big bucks if you are GREAT... you have to be able to sell tickets... that lounge singer is not selling ticket... Swift is... lounge singer gets low pay, Swift gets a lot...

So, CEO can be paid big bucks without any talent... a performer cannot....

 

[O2Bfree]

I always wonder if remarkable people such as Taylor Swift had been born in a different era would their talents adapt to the societal interests or needs of that era. If she were born in 1940s, would she still be a huge pop star? If Einstein were born in the 1600s, would he rival the great scientists of that time, or would his thought patterns not resonate with the questions and technology of the era?

If I were born in 1989 would I be Taylor Swift instead??

 

[Clone]

Talent and hard work doesn't automatically translate in higher wealth.

[after Clark fails at lighting all the exterior Christmas lights at the "lighting ceremony" in front of the entire family]


Audrey: He worked really hard, Grandma.
Art: So do washing machines.

 

[Music Lover]

One of the problems is that CEOs can get a boat load of money and not be any good... I am bad with names, but I bet someone can give examples... one is Johnson at JC Penny.... I think Meyer at Yahoo has not been great... the guy who heads Sears...


If you are a performer, you ONLY get paid big bucks if you are GREAT... you have to be able to sell tickets... that lounge singer is not selling ticket... Swift is... lounge singer gets low pay, Swift gets a lot...

So, CEO can be paid big bucks without any talent... a performer cannot....

For every example of a bad CEO, there are just as many examples of high paid performers who are also not very good. A lot of well known high paid acts use auto-tune in the studio and when playing live because they are not good vocalists. There are plenty of instances of the artist recording tracks in the studio that are later re-done by better musicians once they have left. Some of the highest paid acts even lip sync in concert.

As to Taylor Swift...I have nothing against her, but she is a mediocre guitarist at best with average vocals. She's popular because a lot of people like her songs, not because she is extraordinarily talented.

 

[ERD50]

I'm not a fan of hers, but I do like seeing pop artists showing off musical ability. She seems solid with just guitar and vocals:

Wikipedia says she was one of 3 writers for that song. No telling who wrote how much.

Thanks. I appreciate that it was just her voice and guitar accompaniment. Nice voice, I'd say she has some talent, but nothing all that 'special' (IMO only - and I also watched a few others from that show). Her guitar playing got the job done I guess, but I've seen dozens of local, small/no name performers who keep it a lot more interesting. It helps to pick out a bass line or alternate bass + fifth or something (anything?), along with the chords, and pick out a few notes as you go from chord to chord at times (like picking out descending G-F#-E-D as you move from a G to a D chord). A few little embellishments like that go a long way, some are pretty easy, others make you think you are hearing two guitar players at once.

Her piano accompaniment was about the same, I'd say.

But I can see why people like her, nice voice, nice songs, pretty - I just wouldn't call her 'great' myself. Listen to the guitar or piano work that Joni Mitchell does - an entirely different class. OK, Joni is an unrealistic standard to hold anyone up to, but it will give you an example.

-ERD50

 

[ls99]

More power and money to her.

A long way from when her mother used to drive her around in Nashville, she walking into various studios and handing in her CD demos. Saying, Hi I'm Taylor this is my CD demo.

 

[Gone4Good]

She's popular because a lot of people like her songs, not because she is extraordinarily talented.

Is that not enough to be considered talented, to write songs that people like?

Her lyrics do seem to resonate with a huge audience. True, it's mostly a teenage girl audience. But is it fair to dismiss her as untalented because she's not writing for us specifically? Or because she caters to an immature audience?

In the same vein I wonder if Stephen King is untalented. I don't particularly care for the horror genre. I don't think his writing is anything special. And plenty of intellectuals don't consider his work serious writing.

But a lot of people enjoy his novels and he produces more of them than nearly anyone alive. I'd say there's some talent in that.

Eventually we'll have a better idea as to whether Taylor Swift leaves a lasting legacy in music. I think Stephen King's legacy as a hugely influential writer is pretty secure. The jury's still out on Taylor, perhaps. But I'd say the odds are in her favor.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Taylor's "salary" for 2015 was in the Parade magazine's annual story on what people earn. This link I guess focuses on celebrities: What People Earn 2016: Take a Peek at Celebrity Salaries (I noticed it in Sunday's paper). Some people earn more than we think they should, some people earn less than we think they should. Good water cooler chit chat fodder. Not much documentation on how the publication came up with the figures.

I think the girl works hard for the money and good for her being able to follow her dreams.

 

[Gone4Good]

And the problem with CEO pay isn't that the numbers are so high, it's that the pay is determined by a board that the CEO often chairs and which is often comprised of other CEOs acting as "outside directors". And once one self-determined compensation package is signed it's used to justify the next self-determined package at other firms. Warren Buffet once quipped that these guys all use the same executive compensation consultants at Ratchet, Ratchet and Bingo.

The other problem with CEO pay is that it doesn't necessarily correlate with any kind of actual performance. Long-dated stock options grow into the money just because stocks go up. It doesn't really matter that your firm lagged all of its peers.

The third problem with CEO pay is that many large-company CEO's aren't adding any discernible value. Many are just caretakers of firms built by others.

I don't think anyone complained when Steve Jobs or Sam Walton rang the cash register. Just like people don't care that Lebron James makes mint. Or Taylor Swift, for that matter. That's because everyone knows why they're all getting paid.

But when some person rises up the bureaucracy at Mega Corp to lead a 100 year old firm it's a bit harder to see the value add.

 

[aaronc879]

She was on a world tour from May 5th to Dec 12th. Grossed over $250 million in 7 months. That had to be a grueling schedule and of course the early part of the year was spent planning and practicing for the tour. People in her position have to put in 5000 hours a year or more while their "hot" because they won't be able to get a gig anywhere in a few years.

 

[EastWest Gal]

They were talking about it on the radio this morning and mentioned a few other names, the lowest they mentioned I believe was Leonardo De Caprio at $20MM.



We all know it but it hit me, of course, they have their expenses and taxes too but still what these guys make in one year many of us will never see in a lifetime.

You know all those Swift trucks you see on the highways? I have been told that is the same family. She had a leg up when she started. Like many a politician or celebrity. Which makes those with real talent who came from nowhere really remarkable. And for every Taylor Swift there are a thousand people as talented or better who don't have a chance at such fortune.

I'm more apt to admire the Beatles and others like them. Just my generation I guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Bestwifeever]

You know all those Swift trucks you see on the highways? I have been told that is the same family. She had a leg up when she started. Like many a politician or celebrity. Which makes those with real talent who came from nowhere really remarkable. And for every Taylor Swift there are a thousand people as talented or better who don't have a chance at such fortune.

I'm more apt to admire the Beatles and others like them. Just my generation I guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

Made me look--Swift is merely an adjective, and the founder of that company was a truck driver named Carl Moyes and he is not part of Taylor Swift's family: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Transportation

You can admire her maybe a little bit now for her hard work? (ETA: there are just soooo many people who had doors opened for them these days--our Chicago news has several reporters/anchors whose parents are in the biz, for example, and lots more movie actors are turning into family businesses, like Tom Hanks and his son, Will Smith and his son, etc., etc. But they still have to work hard once the door is opened.)

(I don't really have an opinion on Taylor Swift or most of the other current celebrities, but I do have time on my hands this afternoon )

 

[2017ish]

Deleted.

Bestwifeever beat me to it.

 

[RobbieB]

I just love to read "rich people" threads -

 

[Music Lover]

Is that not enough to be considered talented, to write songs that people like?

Her lyrics do seem to resonate with a huge audience. True, it's mostly a teenage girl audience. But is it fair to dismiss her as untalented because she's not writing for us specifically? Or because she caters to an immature audience?

In the same vein I wonder if Stephen King is untalented. I don't particularly care for the horror genre. I don't think his writing is anything special. And plenty of intellectuals don't consider his work serious writing.

But a lot of people enjoy his novels and he produces more of them than nearly anyone alive. I'd say there's some talent in that.

Eventually we'll have a better idea as to whether Taylor Swift leaves a lasting legacy in music. I think Stephen King's legacy as a hugely influential writer is pretty secure. The jury's still out on Taylor, perhaps. But I'd say the odds are in her favor.

Technical musical ability and writing popular songs are two entirely different talents. I'm an amateur musician and sometimes overanalyze music, but I still can enjoy music written by people with limited technical ability. But, I also appreciate technical ability and will gravitate towards those who have both the ability to write and the ability to play.

I don't particularly care for Taylor Swift's music, but do give her credit for finding a formula that works and makes her money, even though I won't spend a dime on her music. Her guitar playing is not that good and her voice is average, but if I liked her songs it wouldn't matter that much.

One of my favourite bands is Pink Floyd. Roger Waters wrote some great songs but could barely play, in fact, David Gilmour played most of the bass on Pink Floyd albums and then had to show Waters a "dumbed down" version that he could play live. But, that doesn't prevent me from enjoying their music even though Waters lacked playing chops.

 

[JoeWras]

Funny but with all that money so few seem really happy.... Small wonder.
1)they change spouses like we change slacks.
2)zero privacy
3)the media is in your face dying to catch you in an unflattering position.

Then there's the tabloids: Stars Who Aged Poorly, Stars who gained weight, stars who are desperate for their next gig. Really dumb stars... Stars who cheat...

SongWRITER. SongWRITER. Be the songwriter! Who can pick Bernie Taupin out of a crowd? Makes boatloads, even when Elton is in concert, Bernie can be on the beach in LA pulling in the royalty.

Do you know Holly Knight? No. But you've heard her songs. Lots of them. My favorite Holly Knight story is when Aerosmith's producer encouraged them to get outside writing to help, and Holly came in and changed one word ("Time" to "Doll") and, BAM, 25% royalty worth at least $1M.

Nice.

 

[RobbieB]

In a market economy nothing is "overpriced", it may be over valued but the price is what people are willing to pay.

As to Madonna being "stale" do you really think she cares?

Madonna Net Worth - TheRichest

 

[Spanky]

Whether Taylor is talented or not is highly debatable and subjective. It does not matter anyway. I personally do not listen to her songs. However, she definitely has a huge fan base that adores her and loves her songs. She's very successful in marketing herself and making money. That's good for her.

 

[youbet]

Whether Taylor is talented or not is highly debatable and subjective. It does not matter anyway. I personally do not listen to her songs. However, she definitely has a huge fan base that adores her and loves her songs. She's very successful in marketing herself and making money. That's good for her.

Well said and spot on!

 

[Texas Proud]

Whether Taylor is talented or not is highly debatable and subjective. It does not matter anyway. I personally do not listen to her songs. However, she definitely has a huge fan base that adores her and loves her songs. She's very successful in marketing herself and making money. That's good for her.

I know this is about Taylor etc... and we had mentioned CEO salaries as something that is not always related to talent...

What about the people who make over $1 million doing youtube or other online things.... are they really that talented? Not IMO...

 

[Clone]

I remember a few years back-

My son had been running tractor on the farm. Out in the sticks, not a good selection of radio stations. I took supper out to him. He said-

"If Taylor Swift can't find some better boyfriends, I'm going to have to start listening to Classic Rock again!"

 

[Fermion]

The wildest one is Judge Judy. She makes around $45 million a year for that 30 minute TV show. And she is like older than my Grandma.

 

[haha]

As to Taylor Swift...I have nothing against her, but she is a mediocre guitarist at best with average vocals. She's popular because a lot of people like her songs, not because she is extraordinarily talented.

Agree. To me her music along with most popular music is boring in the extreme. I could not possibly listen to even one whole song. Contrast her boring drivel with the late Merle Haggard. That man had human feeling in his songs.

Ha

 

[Gone4Good]

I'm curious how we define talent, especially as it relates to art.

Is talent just stuff we like?

People didn't like Van Gogh's work when he lived. And now they do. So was he not talented then but became talented posthumously?

Sure he eventually had a huge influence on other artists and that's a big reason why he's considered talented today. But isn't that just another way of saying "Van Gogh became popular among other artists?"

And if someone produces art that no one ever appreciates can they still be said to have talent? In Van Gogh's case, I think we'd just consider him eccentric.

MusicLover mentioned technical skill. But is the application of technical skill talent or is it simply craftmanship? Truly talented people seem to push beyond the limits of old techniques or even completely upend them to create something new.

On the other hand, if artists are creating things that are popular but not particularly new, innovative or technically impressive does that mean they have no talent? The early Beatles could be described this way.

And if talent is just stuff we like, then wouldn't the fact that a lot of people like an artist be evidence of talent whether we appreciate it or not? Or is something else required?

 

[FIREmenow]

I'm curious how we define talent, especially as it relates to art.

Is talent just stuff we like?

People didn't like Van Gogh's work when he lived. And now they do. So was he not talented then but became talented posthumously?

Sure he had a huge influence on other artists and that's a big reason why he's considered talented today. But isn't that just another way of saying "Van Gogh became popular among other artists?"

MusicLover mentioned technical skill. But is the application of technical skill talent or is it simply craftmanship? Truly talented people seem to push beyond the limits of old techniques or even completely upend them to create something new.

And if someone produces art that no one ever appreciates can they still said to be talented? In Van Gogh's case, I think he'd just be considered eccentric.

On the other hand, if artists are creating things that are popular but not particularly new, innovative or technically impressive does that mean they have no talent? The early Beatles could be described this way.

And if talent is just stuff we like, than wouldn't the fact that a lot of people like an artist be evidence of talent? Or is something else required?

Thanks for that. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Not that it is so, but isn't there "talent" in lucratively manipulating media and a fan-base even though you might only be mediocre entertainer?

I certainly think so.