Taylor Swift made $80MM last year...

[Senator]

Thanks for that. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Not that it is so, but isn't there "talent" in lucratively manipulating media and a fan-base even though you might only be mediocre entertainer?

I certainly think so.

If you ever heard Bob Dylan, or Steven Tyler, you would think marketing plays a larger impact than any vocal talent...

 

[ponyboy]

More power to her. She's providing something that a lot of people want/desire.

Im sure all of us listen to music...they're very talented people who have a skill that millions of people will pay for.

I always find it odd when people try to make the argument that athletes/actors/musicians are paid too much. What they fail to understand is its the average joes that pay their salaries. We all vote with our money...if no one pays to see a movie or attend a concert these people would not make that much.

 

[ponyboy]

Also..for those talking about who has talent and who doesnt...it doesnt matter. Regardless of talent those individuals are tuned into a frequency that you and I cannot see/hear. That frequency is being picked up by the millions of people who support these people. Talent has no meaning in terms of success...its irrelevant.

 

[Tadpole]

Wikipedia says she started working at age 14 so it isn't surprising that she is making more than I was at her age.

 

[FIREmenow]

More power to her. She's providing something that a lot of people want/desire.

Im sure all of us listen to music...they're very talented people who have a skill that millions of people will pay for.

I always find it odd when people try to make the argument that athletes/actors/musicians are paid too much. What they fail to understand is its the average joes that pay their salaries. We all vote with our money...if no one pays to see a movie or attend a concert these people would not make that much.

Bingo! And, in essence, setting their "salary" in the first place.

 

[Music Lover]

I always find it odd when people try to make the argument that athletes/actors/musicians are paid too much. What they fail to understand is its the average joes that pay their salaries. We all vote with our money...if no one pays to see a movie or attend a concert these people would not make that much.

The difference with athletes is that the taxpayer is often forced to pay for their workplaces (stadiums and arenas), whether they want to or not.

 

[ERD50]

I'm curious how we define talent, especially as it relates to art. ...

MusicLover mentioned technical skill. But is the application of technical skill talent or is it simply craftmanship? Truly talented people seem to push beyond the limits of old techniques or even completely upend them to create something new.
....

And if talent is just stuff we like, then wouldn't the fact that a lot of people like an artist be evidence of talent whether we appreciate it or not? Or is something else required?

I'd say that for the most part, it doesn't matter how we define it. As others have said, her fans like her music/performance/personality/looks (the whole package), isn't that enough?

I asked earlier "- is she talented, music-wise?", but I should have worded that more like MusicLover did, and ask about technical skill and craftsmanship. Again, it doesn't really matter, it was just something I was curious about.

Technical skill and craftsmanship are still somewhat subjective, but certainly more objective than 'talent' (I like what I like). I'm pretty sure that 100 experienced guitar players would have judged her playing along the lines that I did - adequate for the song, mixes up the strumming (not just 1-2-3&4) but doesn't throw in any embellishments. Pretty simple playing.

Technical skill and craftsmanship doesn't cover it all either. There is that less definable 'feeling/soul/emotion'. I love much of Joe Cocker's work, some of Rod Stewart's early work, yet their voices are almost hard to take. But they get a message across with what they have. So maybe that is 'craftsmanship'?

And whatever I think doesn't matter to anyone else. Everyone is free to enjoy whatever they like. But if someone wanted to claim that Swift is an accomplished guitar or piano player, I would take issue with that, and say she is adequate.

OTOH, a favorite movie clip of mine is from "School of Rock" - Jack Black asks the kids who their favorite artists are, a kid yells out "Puff Daddy", and Black yells out "WRONG!".

-ERD50

 

[ziggy29]

If you ever heard Bob Dylan, or Steven Tyler, you would think marketing plays a larger impact than any vocal talent...

Bob Dylan is one of the greatest songwriters of all time.... but that voice... I just can't get into that.

 

[Senator]

The difference with athletes is that the taxpayer is often forced to pay for their workplaces (stadiums and arenas), whether they want to or not.

I always find it odd when people try to make the argument that athletes/actors/musicians are paid too much. What they fail to understand is its the average joes that pay their salaries. We all vote with our money...if no one pays to see a movie or attend a concert these people would not make that much.

I am sure Taylor Swift plays in many publicly financed arenas as well. And even the movie stars here in MN, get a 25% rebate for expenses paid in MN... Many other states have the same.

If I could get a 25% rebate for my expenses, I would be rich too. The system is stacked against the common person, especially if they are just a W2 wage slave.

Rebates have increased to up to 25% of qualified MN expenditures, above the line talent (non-resident) will be included as an eligible rebate cost (cap $100K per person), and a production that spends more than $1M in MN will automatically qualify at 25% and will be audited by an independent auditor paid for by MN Film and TV.

https://mnfilmtv.org/incentives/snowbate/

 

[Gone4Good]

I am sure Taylor Swift plays in many publicly financed arenas as well. And even the movie stars here in MN, get a 25% rebate for expenses paid in MN... Many other states have the same.

If I could get a 25% rebate for my expenses, I would be rich too. The system is stacked against the common person, especially if they are just a W2 wage slave.

I'd say it's an equal opportunity fleecing.

Half the money Louisiana should have collected in corporate taxes between 2005 and 2010 was instead written off due to tax credits,

As bad as the whole stadium racket is, I doubt they're collectively the largest recipients of public largess.

 

[Spanky]

I always find it odd when people try to make the argument that athletes/actors/musicians are paid too much.

Only a handful of them makes millions while most are struggling to make end meet.

 

[Senator]

As bad as the whole stadium racket is, I doubt they're collectively the largest recipients of public largess.

100% agree. Warren Buffet even gets a smaller tax owed percentage than his secretary...

If I wasn't worried about prison, I would likely pay less taxes myself.

 

[Senator]

Only a handful of them makes millions while most are struggling to make end meet.

Agree, but there are still a lot. There are only 500 Fortune 500 CEOs. There are a lot more athletes and movie stars making 10M+ than 500.

 

[ERD50]

Bob Dylan is one of the greatest songwriters of all time.... but that voice... I just can't get into that.

Well, his voice certainly would not be considered 'pretty' by most, and is often quite grating, but in some songs I think it quite appealing. Here's an example of a great song, where the voice is done in a simple 'folksy' style - appropriate to the 'story-telling' nature of the song. And getting back to guitar playing, the picking is fairly intricate - far more interesting and accomplished than anything I've seen from Swift.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Think_Twice,_It's_All_Right

It has been argued that the guitar on the original version of the song, which features a fast, fingerstyle style, was played by Bruce Langhorne.[3] However, Eyolf Østrem, the creator of the website dylanchords, has contended that Dylan himself played the guitar track. ... Furthermore, a recording of an April 1963 concert in New York (Bob Dylan - Town Hall, NEW YORK CITY, New York 1963 [Bootleg]) contains a live version of "Don't Think Twice", finger-picked in a manner similar to that heard on the original recording.

-ERD50

 

[Taxman59]

100% agree. Warren Buffet even gets a smaller tax owed percentage than his secretary....

I get annoyed with this comment, it appears all over the web. Warren Buffett's average tax rate is low because he invests in muni bonds. He is getting a lower return on his bonds (at least in theory) in exchange for a tax exemption. This is a transfer from the U.S. Treasury to the states and municipalities. Using the taxes paid as the numerator and the gross investment income as the denominator is misleading. To get his tax rate to a normal rate, force him to avoid muni bonds or tax munis. . . wait, that would hurt the cities and states. The problem is the desire to assist the states and blame the "rich".

Now let me get down from the soapbox and get back to being retired.


Have the day you deserve, and let Karma sort it out.

Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Gone4Good]

Warren Buffett's average tax rate is low because he invests in muni bonds.

That, and his capital gain & dividend income is taxed at roughly half the rate he'd pay on ordinary income (and half the rate Taylor Swift pays on hers.)

Also, I think his secretary is paid quite well.

 

[Alan]

Thanks everyone for a lively discussion.