The Story of Frujinator

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hee...This reminds me of why my husband was more interested in me than in the pretty younger things he was also dating at the time. I knew what Jack Nicholson's waitress was supposed to hold between her knees--and why.

ding ding ding!

 

[NinjaPigeon]

Interesting, how do you deal with it as a software engineer specifically if you are not an accountant

There are a LOT of rules that we have to adhere to, actually. The most notable being that one person cannot have complete access to update code in production if they wrote the code. For instance, one of the sites I worked on had a shopping cart component. I could not make changes to the cart then put them into production without help. The reason is I could have compromised the code and just pushed out something that deposited all the charges into my bank account, for instance.

That's a really simplified answer, but that's the gist of it. In theory, it's supposed to only apply to code that impacts financials, but most companies apply SOX across the board. The reason being that if the software isn't affecting your bottom line, why are you paying to have it developed :

 

[retire@40]

What is Sarbanes Oxley?

You are almost done with college and getting a degree in accounting and SOX has never come up in any of your accounting classes

 

[frujinator]

No I mean I have like two more years to go. I guess halfway done. I just finishing GED requirements, I took a few accounting classes, but not in the program yet.

 

[Jarhead*]

CFB, remember when ** would ask questions on the forum and get someone too look things up for him becasue he was too lazy/thought it was fun to get others to do the work for him? :

That young man had CFB running all over the back-court, and when he got good and winded, he started hitting lob shots at the net.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Wifes watching "the sopranos" and whoever is doing the writing this season...sucks.

 

[laurence]

Wifes watching "the sopranos" and whoever is doing the writing this season...sucks.

Amen to that! Just hurry up and start a mob war, finish off everybody, it's the last season! All this deep/weird stuff is getting out of hand.

 

[frujinator]

LOL

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I think Gandolfini might have said "Ok, I'll do the season for that paltry $9 million, but I get to do 3/4 of it lying in a bed with my eyes closed. And everyone else has to squabble like a bunch of 9 year old girls."

 

[WRBT]

Deja vu: http://www.examnotes.net/archive18-2003-8-1019341.html

 

[Texas Proud]

Well, back to the topic and CPA...

You can get a CPA and not be a CFO... it gives you a lot of options that you will not get with some of the other business degrees... yes, you will more than likely be doing something financial, but it does not have to be accounting...

And as for the hours... way back when, I was putting in 80 to 100 hour weeks during tax season.. when I could only find time at 3 AM to wash my clothes, I decided to chuck it all... now just do financial analysis for a decent wage, but do not work the long hours anymore... and I do not care to get into a job that requires 10 to 12 (or more) hours a day plus weekends... since you have already made $100,000 in a year, you will learn that money is not everything no matter how much you think so now.. as the other CPA said (can not remember his name) you can make a lot of money if you want, but you have to do the time.. stay at a Big 4 firm and you will get to the $500,000 per year range if that is what you want... but not me.

 

[WRBT]

The that the company I work for has indeed cycled thru CFOs every couple years, and they are indeed always here when I arrive and here when I leave.

 

[REWahoo]

The that the company I work for has indeed cycled thru CFOs every couple years, and they are indeed always here when I arrive and here when I leave.

At the mini-megacorp where I toiled for 27 years prepared myself for not-so-early retirement, I counted 13 CFOs during my imprisonment employment. The standing joke was that box on the org. chart was going to be changed from "Chief Financial Officer" to "The Widowmaker Postion".

 

[Craig]

You guys are pushing me real hard into a career change ...

 

[frujinator]

Well, back to the topic and CPA...

You can get a CPA and not be a CFO... it gives you a lot of options that you will not get with some of the other business degrees... yes, you will more than likely be doing something financial, but it does not have to be accounting...

And as for the hours... way back when, I was putting in 80 to 100 hour weeks during tax season.. when I could only find time at 3 AM to wash my clothes, I decided to chuck it all... now just do financial analysis for a decent wage, but do not work the long hours anymore... and I do not care to get into a job that requires 10 to 12 (or more) hours a day plus weekends... since you have already made $100,000 in a year, you will learn that money is not everything no matter how much you think so now.. as the other CPA said (can not remember his name) you can make a lot of money if you want, but you have to do the time.. stay at a Big 4 firm and you will get to the $500,000 per year range if that is what you want... but not me.

Thanks for all the responses guys, but to quote the above poster, thats one of many reasons that becoming a CPA is lucrative. It will give me many options. I can go work for the state, start my own firm maybe, etc, etc.

And regards to becoming a CFO, I wouldn't mind being thrown around every few years if my income will be $300k per year. Bare in mind I am a VERY good saver

 

[soupcxan]

You don't get overtime for working 12 hour days as an auditor with a big public accounting firm. And it's hard to become a CPA-CFO unless you have public accounting experience with one of the big four firms. Even breaking into the big four firms as an entry level auditor may be tough, depending on your background, GPA, and the college you went to.

But 12+ hours is not bad, thats a lot of overtime!   Ya I'm ready for the dedication.  I know I'll get burned out, but thats what vacation/retiremtn is for

 

[Texas Proud]

You don't get overtime for working 12 hour days as an auditor with a big public accounting firm. And it's hard to become a CPA-CFO unless you have public accounting experience with one of the big four firms. Even breaking into the big four firms as an entry level auditor may be tough, depending on your background, GPA, and the college you went to.

Soup,

You do have some good points.. but I assume that the kid has the goods if he was making $100,000 per year at his age.. but then again, if I was doing that I would not have left!!!

But, you do get paid overtime (or at least you did) as a staff accountant... it is at regular time, not time and a half... you usually get a bank of time to take off during the 'off season' but then get paid for the rest... since you are burned out, you take your bank as vacation and do not get the extra money...

 

[flipstress]

Even breaking into the big four firms as an entry level auditor may be tough, depending on your background, GPA, and the college you went to.

It's interesting that the above conditions have not changed much in two decades.

Almost 20 years ago, I wanted to work for one of "The Big 8" (then) CPA firms.  I had passed the exam but still found it hard to even get interviews because I did not go to a "name" college.  The one Big 8 firm that interviewed me lost interest because I was not a greencard holder.

I did get a low score on the exam's tax portion, and I doubt I would've enjoyed the work of a financial auditor as much as I do writing programs.

On a bad day at work, I sometimes think of pursuing accounting but realistically, I'll be struggling now even with just bookkeeping.  My accounting memory banks have been erased...well, maybe not entirely.  I remember a few terms, and a basic understanding of what financial folks are talking about helps me when I work on financial apps.

 

[Brat]

Frujinator, consider carefully what Charles shared with you re long term.  There is another skill that a future CFO needs, people management.  People at all levels.  Often it is the sales rep that cooks the numbers before you even know there is trouble in the trenches.  You need to watch what motivates people.

The path that Charles noted is not easily found.  You need to 'do time' in an accounting firm that audits a lot of firms on the venture track, know your stuff and build relationships.  Long hours go without saying.  Pay attention to the culture of the venture capital firms, as well as the firms they invest in.  It is a small world.  A person on the CFO track asks questions, listens a lot, and is a student of the profession.

 

[frujinator]

With each post it sounds harder and harder to become a CPA...

I'm getting worried now...

What should I do I like accounting.

 

[astromeria]

There are a great many jobs one can do with accounting skills, but I'm no expert and will give you just one example. Years ago my aunt worked in the accounting department at an entertainment company in NY City (I think they managed musicians & theatre people). Since then, she founded her own small firm and handles the books, does taxes, etc. for individuals and small businesses, mostly in the entertainment field where she has contacts. She really enjoys the people she meets as well as the work. She expects to simply wind down her business by rejecting new clients at some point to semi-retire (if she didn't have such a shopping jones--and NY is a heckuva place to indulge that!--she cold be retired right now). Her daughter (my cousin), recently graduated with a degree in accounting and I think works in the fashion industry. SO maybe it can be as simple as doing accoutning in an industry that turns you on.

This reminds me of when my husband was designing hardware/software products for a company with clients in the brioadcast industry (CNN, Sky, etc.) He got a real kick out of working with these creative people--doesn't happen so often when you're a programmer.

 

[soupcxan]

What should I do  I like accounting. 

If you haven't heard of sarbanes oxley, I'm not sure you know enough about accounting to know whether you like it or not.

 

[Craig]

Brat hit it right on, and soupcxan makes a valid point ... if you haven't come across Sarbanes yet, I assume you are early in your investigation.

Note the salary figures I posted before are after many years of experience ... I've see "CFO's" (i.e. lite) at less than $100K, with the same hours.

Yes, it is tough to become a CPA, as it is tough to become an attorney, doctor, engineer, entrepreneur, etc. ... any "job" paying significant money comes with high expense for education (formal or "street" time), lots of hours, and plenty of risk.  That's OK ... the gambles are worth it if you want high returns.  It is like, and is investing.

Just be sure there is "enough juice for the squeeze" ...

Thus my recommendation that you investigate PEG's as well.  A very smart Board member in my current company said he considered being an investment banker.  He saw an article in the WSJ, and noted that investment professionals in PEG's / VC's made more than investment bankers, and worked roughly the same hours.  Voila ... if it's the same hours anyway, might as well make more money, no?

Same with CPA's / CFO's ... most work tons of hours, but I seriously question whether there is "enough juice for the squeeze" anymore.

Yes, the CPA route gives you lots of options.  But you don't need that if you want to become an investment professional, and the time might ... might ... be better spent getting an MBA from a great school (don't assume you can't afford it ... check on scholarships).

I've been CFO for many companies now, and been a partner in a CFO firm ... I have had stock options pay off on one gig only ... all the others produced no return.  And, the one that did pay off didn't generate significant wealth.

But a partner in a PEG gets into many, many deals, buys and sells many companies, and has many swings at bat.  Lots of great experience, seeing many different industries, and great upside potential.  You are an investment professional, dealing with pre-IPO companies, some of which will become household names.

Sorry to run on, but just wanted you to consider alternatives.  You should have time to study, plan and adjust ... you're in a time of R&D, as well as education.  Consider your future path as best you can, spend the time and effort to investigate, don't be shy about calling some PEG professionals to discuss that career, and keep your educational choices broad enough to give you the flexibility of different career paths. Your life will take many twists and turns ... ask anyone here, and I suspect they will tell you they encountered quite a few surprises. Makes it exciting.

Best of luck.

 

[roadkill]

I am a CPA and CFO as well. When I was in public accounting, I saw the partners in the firm working enormous amounts of hours with no life outside of work. I quickly decided that I did not want to grow up to be a partner in a CPA firm. However, I think anyone who aspires to a financial career would gain a great deal by spending a few years in public accounting and pass the CPA exam.  This will open many more doors for you. 

 

[Nords]

What should I do  I like accounting. 

Then you should do accounting.

Consider how hard it would be to tackle an occupation that you DON'T like.

My BIL graduated from MegaU with an accounting degree and tackled his CPA cert. Like many others he took the exam twice (after an extensive prep course) and went to work for a tax firm.

20 years later he's a junior partner in a DC area firm that does taxes for rich entrepreneurs & trust-fund babies. He has been constantly employed and perpetually recruited by firm-hopping mentors. He's done tax returns with features like Cisco employee #23, W-2s with eight digits (plus the two on the OTHER side of the decimal), and fourth-generation heirs so coked out on Wednesday morning that they passed out during the final review of their return. Now he mainly runs the office, supervises the work of a staff of a dozen or so junior CPAs (his stock answer is "Gee, interesting question. What's the tax code say?") and occasionally schmoozes the customers. He used to commute an hour but his latest job switch is a 15-minute drive. He works 40 hours a week most of the year, whatever it takes from Jan-15 Apr, and takes his overage in comp time or overtime. He leaves the office at the office and doesn't bring work home. He doesn't do politics (unless he wants to) but he does very good work. He's seen a lot of very interesting things, met a lot of very interesting people, and made a consistent annual income of $80-$110K (depending on seniority & bonus).

He's also seen almost as many Schedules D as the IRS and he knows his way around a financial report, so he knows how to invest. He and his (working) spouse don't try especially hard to save but they don't fritter away their money. I suspect that he's made far more from his investing than he has from work. I'm not insinuating that he's an insider trader, just that he's been in a very good position to see what's working for others and has the skills & resources to follow up with the due diligence. He'll ER in a couple more years and we've been joking about him joining us on Oahu.

So chase down that accounting degree, pay attention to the fields that interest you, and see if you too can obtain lifetime employment (or ER) courtesy of the tax code.