Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-02-2008, 01:25 PM   #21
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by jIMOh View Post
Any of you work for a software company?
Yes, I do.

Quote:
I work for one which charges customers around a million or two or three or 4 hundred (million) for licenses. More than likely TT/ intuit was seeing license revenue (their main money maker) go down, so the obvious method is to crack down on piracy. My company has a more complex licensing method we use to prevent piracy, but the technology behind that is probably more complex for the average PC user.
Our software is also generally licensed for large enterprises (megacorps and governments) year to year and most large annual contracts are six or seven figures. But that's the norm for that type of software, and competitors do it the same way. The type of software my employer produces and licenses is pretty much always sold this way, so customers aren't repulsed by these pricing and licensing models. I don't think that translates well to the consumer market.

Quote:
Intuit spends millions to update their software. It's OK for them to charge people to use that software to recoup their costs.
It is their right, sure, but in a very price-sensitive consumer environment with competition that isn't playing these games, it may not be a wise long-term business decision. I know these nickel and dime games are chasing me away as a customer, and I'm quite sure I'm far from alone.
__________________

__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-02-2008, 01:39 PM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
saluki9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShokWaveRider View Post

Am I the only person who has TT 2008? Or are the folk here talking from experience or hearsay?

SWR
read about it right here 2008 TurboTax Pay Per Return - TurboTax® Customer Care & Support
__________________

__________________
saluki9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 02:23 PM   #23
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
I've used TaxCut for years, and have been generally happy. It's easy to use and does a good job of explaining alternative courses of action as you go thorough the return. The only complaint I had was their approach to solo 401(k) reporting--they use different terminology than is used by Fidelity, and I had to do too much independent research. I was going to try TurboTax this year (despite the turn-off of their previous product activation scheme and the related installation of software on user's machines without acknowledgment) but I won't now as Intuit is evidently still not focused on the needs of customers.

Maybe TaxAct this year, with a fallback plan of TaxCut since still have the solo401k "workaround cheat-sheet" I made last year.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 02:37 PM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
frayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 19th Hole
Posts: 2,529
I used TT for about six or seven years and switched to Tax Cut last year. Actually I think it is a much better tax software program than TT. YMMV !
__________________
frayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 03:04 PM   #25
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotadimple View Post
It means you can file your return electronically without charge using Turbo Tax. I think the fee was $14.95, but I have used TT for several years.

Try TaxAct (see URL in above message) for $12.95 and free filing, beats the cost of TT and does the same job.

-- Rita
Will TaxAct import TT info from previous years?
__________________
Sometimes death is not as tragic as not knowing how to live. This man knew how to live--and how to make others glad they were living. - Jack Benny at Nat King Cole's funeral
dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 03:34 PM   #26
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jIMOh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Milford, OH
Posts: 2,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Yes, I do.


It is their right, sure, but in a very price-sensitive consumer environment with competition that isn't playing these games, it may not be a wise long-term business decision. I know these nickel and dime games are chasing me away as a customer, and I'm quite sure I'm far from alone.
Intuit needs to prevent use of people filing returns with their software and not paying intuit for that use.

If people change to other software that is their right. Maybe they will find that software is not as good, or maybe they will find it better.

Keep in mind sometimes people prepare a joint return, then also need to do married filing seperately, and compare the tax liabilities and refunds for state purposes. As this becomes more common, maybe Intuit wants to profit from this as well.

We file only one return and will be using TT this year. No reason to re-type all the info into some new software- I have to pay for that usage anyway to some provider or another.
__________________
Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. One person's stupidity is another person's job security.
jIMOh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 05:38 PM   #27
Recycles dryer sheets
figner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 329
Another TaxCut user here. I also switched when TurboTax decided to use the invasive anti-piracy measures. It's certainly their right to do so, but it was impacting my legitimate use enough that I decided to let my dollars do the walking. My taxes are pretty simple, and TaxCut has been fine (and cheaper).
__________________
figner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 05:52 PM   #28
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 290
TaxAct. It handles various overseas issues correctly (most programs that I have checked in the past don't), and the price is right (free for standard).
__________________
bpp3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 06:26 PM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dawg52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 7,434
Last time I used Tax Cut I couldn't import my tax info from Fidelity. That was only 2 or 3 years ago. Anyone know if you can now? That's why I switched to Turbo Tax.
__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Full time wuss.......
Dawg52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 06:37 PM   #30
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Gotadimple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by dex View Post
Will TaxAct import TT info from previous years?
It looks like both the standard and deluxe only import from the prior version (TaxAct), not competitor prior version.

-- Rita
__________________
Only got A dimple, would have preferred 2!
Gotadimple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 06:52 PM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
I was happy with TaxAct last year, and will use it again for 08.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 06:52 PM   #32
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
freebird5825's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Nowhere, 43N Latitude, NY
Posts: 9,017
thanks for the heads up! what version of TT are you using that has the one return limitation?
i just installed TT Premier 2008. i haven't started my return yet. in past years, we usually install it on the laptop, i do my taxes, then dh2b installs it on his desktop, and does his taxes.
it sounds like we might encounter a snag this year. i like the product well enough to cough up the $10, if indeed Premier requires it. my gut feel is it will not.
__________________
"All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them." - Walt Disney
freebird5825 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 07:31 PM   #33
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,424
Quote:
Intuit needs to prevent use of people filing returns with their software and not paying intuit for that use.
Not sure I agree with this. As I see it, last year Intuit charged a license use fee - now they're charging a return preparation fee. They are free to do business any way they want, but changing the nature of the product without making it clear to customers upfront is not a good way to develop a sustainable customer relationship.

Quote:
If people change to other software that is their right. Maybe they will find that software is not as good, or maybe they will find it better.
This I agree with.

I changed to Tax Cut when TT wrote the famous c-dilla bug. I also use Tax Act to prepare returns for my kids. Not a whole lot of difference aside from the user interface, the choice usually boils down to using the same program again this year, unless there is a reason to change. Unless there is some new feature that gives TT an edge, seems to me they are going to antagonize some long term users in a business that has lots of competition and very low barriers to change.

Sounds like another one of those "what were they thinking" moments. An emerging Harvard Business Case Study.

Michael
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 07:39 PM   #34
Full time employment: Posting here.
friar1610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 820
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I just found out that the 2008 version of Turbo Tax will charge an additional $9.95 per additional return. You can't even prepare a return without an Internet connection so they can make sure your copy/account hasn't prepared more than one return.

That's not just e-filing; that's ANY return, even printed. In the past I've e-filed our return and printed out my mom's return (and mailed it to her to sign and send in.) This year, it would cost me an extra $10 just to print out her return, and the software wouldn't let me do it until I've paid to *print* the second return.

I've been a TT user for over 10 years. But I'm done after this charge. It's bad enough that Intuit has made the Mac version of Quicken a buggy, barely supported piece of junk. Now this?

Any recommendations for other programs? I was thinking about Tax Cut. Opinions?
I haven't read every post on this thread, so you may already have your answers.

- Several years ago, Turbo Tax went to a scheme where you could only use it once. That prevented my using my copy to do my daughter's tax return as I had done for years.
- I used Tax Cut the next year. Not bad - a lot like TT but not quite as friendly.
- Last year I was able to use TT free on-line with Vanguard. Don't know if they will offer the same this year (or if my port is worth so much less that I no longer qualify.)

That's my experience. I would never try to do taxes again without a software package.
__________________
friar1610
friar1610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 07:46 PM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 9,965
Are there any non-TT packages that will import TT last years data into this years return from my HD? For example, will this years Tax Cut import data from last years TT?
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 08:03 PM   #36
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
jIMOh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Milford, OH
Posts: 2,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Not sure I agree with this. As I see it, last year Intuit charged a license use fee - now they're charging a return preparation fee. They are free to do business any way they want, but changing the nature of the product without making it clear to customers upfront is not a good way to develop a sustainable customer relationship.
Was the fee you are speaking of the fee you paid at the store? If so there was a license agreement you agreed to when installing- so any 2nd tax return you did was in violation of the purchase at the store.

Intuit would have two choices- raise the purchase price at store to account for the pirating (which raises my costs and I only prepare 1 return) or control who is using their software.

There are so many legal issues here- for example what if I purchase the software Feb 1 (in a store), file my returns Feb 15, then throw the CD away. On March 1 my garbage man finds the box at the dump, uses my CD and files a fraudulant return. It would not surprise me to see our legal system hold my license responsible for his fraudulant return. TT needs to protect its customers-

granted the protection I need is what you are trying to exploit.
__________________
Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak. One person's stupidity is another person's job security.
jIMOh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 09:04 PM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
freebird5825's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Nowhere, 43N Latitude, NY
Posts: 9,017
there are many versions out there...see TurboTax® Tax Software - Compare TurboTax Online Software Products, Try for Free

i fired up my 2008 Premier, transferred my 2007 federal info, and saved my 2008 unfinished return.
i then tried to start a new return and got the $9.95 message.
i see they threw me a bone - free federal e-file for one user.
TFT, i suppose.
last time i checked, it was permissible for all members of the household to be able to use it, up to 5 returns, and not for compensation.
i will be on the phone with them tomorrow for sure.
__________________
"All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them." - Walt Disney
freebird5825 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 11:03 PM   #38
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by jIMOh View Post
Was the fee you are speaking of the fee you paid at the store? If so there was a license agreement you agreed to when installing- so any 2nd tax return you did was in violation of the purchase at the store.
Not that I misuse the software, but I've aways considered a license agreement I must accept in order to use software I've already purchased to be coersion and therefore invalid. I'm sure the Supreme Court would disagree with me, but they consider growing properly prescribed medical marijuana for your own use "a violation of interstate commerce", and taking private property to allow a developer to build a Costco appropriate use of eminent domain, so who cares what they think. It's a legal system, not a justice system.

Quote:
There are so many legal issues here- for example what if I purchase the software Feb 1 (in a store), file my returns Feb 15, then throw the CD away. On March 1 my garbage man finds the box at the dump, uses my CD and files a fraudulant return. It would not surprise me to see our legal system hold my license responsible for his fraudulant return.
The MA Supreme Court just ruled that a limo company is liable for a drunk customer who got into a wreck and killed somebody after being dropped off (not at his car) by the limo, so you're probably right about this one.

Quote:
TT needs to protect its customers-
Yeah, I'm sure that's what they were thinking.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 07:26 AM   #39
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
retire@40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,670
I don't use TT. What do they consider a new tax return? Will they let you do tax planning with the one file you originally create by allowing you to do "what-if" changes to that file?
__________________
No man is free who is not master of himself. --- Epictetus
Enjoy Yourself (It's Later Than You Think). --- Guy Lombardo
retire@40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 08:52 AM   #40
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by jIMOh View Post
Was the fee you are speaking of the fee you paid at the store? If so there was a license agreement you agreed to when installing- so any 2nd tax return you did was in violation of the purchase at the store.

Intuit would have two choices- raise the purchase price at store to account for the pirating (which raises my costs and I only prepare 1 return) or control who is using their software.

There are so many legal issues here- for example what if I purchase the software Feb 1 (in a store), file my returns Feb 15, then throw the CD away. On March 1 my garbage man finds the box at the dump, uses my CD and files a fraudulant return. It would not surprise me to see our legal system hold my license responsible for his fraudulant return. TT needs to protect its customers-

granted the protection I need is what you are trying to exploit.
Intuit license agreement for 2007 as follows

Quote:
You may: (a) install and use a copy of the Software on one or more computers owned by you (at home or at work); (b) use the Software only to prepare, print and/or electronically file up to five federal 2007 tax year returns and related state tax returns; and (c) make one backup copy of the Software for personal use as permitted under this license grant.
I cannot locate their 2008 license agreement - but clearly it has changed. Now, getting down to your post:

1. There was no violation for a 2nd tax return in 2007. Five were included in the base price.
2. Intuit has other choices - and there is/was no piracy.
3. No legal issue I can see. Your description is not how copyright law works. Under your example you have no liability nor responsibility.
4. What protection do you need? In fact, what protection does Intuit need?
5. Finally, I'm not trying to "exploit" anything.

This is not about piracy, it is about pricing. Intuit has changed the price from 1 license prepares five returns to 1 license prepares 1 return. This thread is in response to their doing that without being clear and upfront with their users.

Michael
__________________

__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
We were preparing for next year... Badger Hi, I am... 9 11-05-2008 08:14 AM
Stimulus Payment Schedule for Tax Returns Processed by April 15 CCdaCE FIRE and Money 13 04-13-2008 01:35 PM
TurboTax Basic vs. Turbo Tax Premier Geoffrey FIRE and Money 20 01-20-2008 01:15 AM
Investors' actual returns versus total returns JohnEyles FIRE and Money 0 11-14-2006 01:20 AM
Preparing for this retirement! Mwsinron Other topics 7 08-22-2006 09:39 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:41 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.