Two people....what do you spend?

A warning - I notice, tkp, that you plan to pay for your own health insurance for awhile. I made the mistake of blissfully assuming that, like other times I'd taken a break from work, I could just buy private insurance when I quit my job. But things had changed! It took months to be turned down by several private insurance companies. I finally got into my State's high-risk pool, paying through the teeth. Get this - I was not sick, I just had had some things happen in the distant past.
Things may be different where you live. But I highly recommend being sure you have coverage BEFORE you quit.
 
DO NOT ignore the health insurance situation. As I reported in an earlier thread - Fidlelity reports that at that golden 65 a couple will currently spend $1100 for medicare and other typical charges and they estimate a 7% inflation rate on that (free) health care.

We are ER beginning next year - house paid for- and anticipate a budget of about 48K - that does include some travel money - I don't know how we could do it on 30k but again our major expense is health insurance.
 
Lets see if this will help:

We are just 2 and older (mid to late 60's). We live in a state with income taxes (about $1K a year). We are both on Medicare (remember it cost for that now ($2,244 a year for to people and rumored to go up about 17% in 2008). Our RE taxes run about $7.5K a year on this condo.

So these fixed costs we cannot do anything about (unless we sell, move, etc.,)

SS Medicare: $2,240 (I guess this could equate to a pre-65 yo medical insurance cost)
RE Taxes: 7,500
Other Fixed: 3,525 (Car Insurance (one car) $600, Condo Insurance $165, Condo Fee $230 a month ($2,760 a year); includes Water, Sewer, Trash, Outside Maintenance, Snow and Lawn Service and Insurance).

So total fixed are about $13,265 to which the variables like utilities (Electric, Gas, TV, Phone, Internet), then Gifts, Car Maintenance (which I do myself, for the most part) and usually have driven cars under warranty (spend too much on cars), Gasoline for local and trips, Other travel expenses, Food (we do not eat out very much) and other unforeseen large expenses. I have pretty good data on what we spent over the past 10 years or so, but your figures will vary. We spend about $27,000 a year, in todays dollars, to live. Our RE Taxes are high, we live in a Income taxed state, live in a pretty winter-cold state (Central Ohio) so you may have to adjust to those numbers. As an example we lived about 20 years in Florida (1986-2005) and spent about $22,000 a year down there in 2004 dollars.

Edit the above costs INCLUDE Federal Income Taxes (just to clarify).

PS: We have 0 debt, Condo paid for, 05 car paid for, credit cards ALWAYS paid off monthly and are in reasonably good health (for a couple "older than dirt").

Hope this gives you enough detail to help you.

OAG
 
This is becomming a VERY interesting (and helpful) thread.......

Please keep it up. But don't hijack it, keep it "on point", please..... :) :) :)

tkp
 
Roughly $4000 per month plus health ins ($525) and taxes (about 24% on top). Total approx $67K per year.
 
tkp,

You might want to check out the Kaderli's book as well (Billy on this board) - they show what they spend - also, Nords just wrote in the thread where he was interviewed about what he spends a year in early retirement.

Also, I believe we've got a thread on this in the Best of area....

Deserat
 
Are you people including federal income taxes in your yearlly expences or not. Need to clarify that.
 
I always try to include everything - taxes included.

I mean what I spend is well - what I spend.

heh heh heh - hmmm is there a tax fairy I should know about? :eek:
 
I second what Want-to-Retire said about about test driving your proposed retirement budget in pre-retirement. Any spending that you can't categorize, still got spent, so that is still part of your lifestyle. We just deducted all of our annual savings and some taxes (easily known) and looked at the remainder. That was our annual spending, regardless of where it went. To produce our savings, we had already cut back our spending for many years prior, not just one or two, so there was no reduction there for ER. I'm skepticle of ERing into a reduced lifestyle that starts on retirement day, wouldn't that chafe after a while? I assume the costs of working (commute, clothing, etc.) are used up by travel and hobbies in ER.
Your SWR includes taxes, investment expenses, etc. so your take-home is not your gross, even in retirement.
 
My wife and I retire at the end of 2007. I will be 59, the wife 57. The plan is to withdraw $48,000 a year until S.S. kicks in at 62. At 62 we will start adjusting our withdrawal amount for inflation. The $48,000 includes taxes.

We have great insurance coverage from my employer that costs us $85 a month, part of my retirement benefit. I am a do it yourselfer and do all house and car repairs. We will retire in Oklahoma, cost of living is very reasonable there. Our house and vehicles are paid for, we are debt free. The kids are through college.

Our working income is $150,000 yearly. Retiring on $48,000 will be a big change but we have tested the budget and it works. This thread is helpful to me also. :)
 
There was a "how much did you spend last year" thread early this year. It got a lot of detailed answers.

Sorry I'm to lazy to search for it.

Audrey
 
modhatter said:
Are you people including federal income taxes in your yearlly expences or not. Need to clarify that.

Uh, what federal income taxes? I have been stunned at the amount of income taxes we've paid (last year $300). In 2006, we put in energy star windows and central a/c and are getting back $140. Our accountant costs us more than our income taxes.
 
Lets see Pre ER Post ER

Mortgage P&I 1400 Now 305
Taxes Real estate 670 Now 275
Car Payments 2 Cars 715 Now 0


So right off the bat leaving New Jersey and paying off my cars with my sick time payoff when I retired in January My big expenses went from 2,785 to 580

A savings of 2,205 a month 26K a year

Now my heating bills are 40% less a year electric is running at 30% less this year and our transportation costs the drive of 120 miles roundtrip a day is no more saving 125 a month on gasoline.

Car insurance is 30% lower and even my homeowners insurance down here in NC is lower by 60 a year than in NJ.

We are living better down here than I was living up in NJ with a pension of 32K and my part time sub Teaching and coaching which is adding about 16K. Was making about 90K in NJ with three jobs.

We eat out as much we do not deny ourselves, the kids are all grown and out of the house married and not our financial problem anymore.

I believe moving out of a high cost area is one reason we are able to do this.

In NJ I would still be working. A 225K mortgage and 8K a year taxes means you better be working.


Now the wife starts a 3K pension in a year and in 8 years she will get around 900 a month in SS and me in 11 years around 1600 a month of SS .

It really is all good.
 
spncity said:
Yes, yes, yes!

This is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. Of course, I realize that, yes, it depends on your lifestyle and spending habits. And everybody is different.

But - hearing about after ER spending is very helpful to me.


We track pretty much everything we spend (less than 1 percent in that "not accounted for misc cash spending" category).

But I still am trying to find that elusive figure for ER annual requirement. Hard to visualize what life will be like when college bills are over and kids are gone. When you don't need to drop off a ton of stuff at the dry cleaners anymore. Needing to visualize what the minimum, middle and max range is.

I'd see us eating out less after ER - more time to cook. Cut out the commute. We already do all our own repairs and car work, cutting firewood, etc. (Um, "we" is an overstatement as DH does the work and I'm available to - ahem - 'supervise' whenever needed).

Travel would increase some, hopefully. Might do the RV thing for a year or two.

Sounds like health insurance is the wild card here (we're in good health). I'd need a laptop and a cell phone as they would no longer be supplied by work.

Keep the info coming.

Thanks,

spncity

I think you've pretty much answered your own question here. The best process I can think of is:

1. Know what you're spending now.
2. Add to that your increased expenses in retirement (travel, RV, laptop, cell phone)
3. Subtract from that your decreased expenses in retirement (college, kids, dry cleaning, eating out, commuting)
4. Investigate some of the bigger unknowns (health care)

I think the more detailed your budget is, the better chance you have of being able to go through each line item and decide if it will go up/down in retirement. I track to the penny but I don't think I have enough categories at the moment.

2Cor521
 
From quickly browsing this thread I picked up a few times that people viewed their start year in social security as a special event that might let them spend a little more. If I've got that observation right then I think you should just run Firecalc with those income streams added and allow yourself to spend more earlier.

As an example, I retired in 2003 which happened to be the low point of the last recession. Our spending percentage at that time was about 5.5%. With the good stock markets we've had since 2003, our spending percentage (with spending adjusted each year for inflation) has dropped to 4.2% because we are about 22% above our 2003 total (corrected for inflation). The original 5.5% in 2003 was chosen because FireCalc showed this was reasonable with our future SS income included. Also it was chosen because we could breath and have fun :D. We won't be increasing our spending percentage any time soon as the equity markets could hit the skids any time.

Regarding tracking spending, I just enter each month's totals in a home brewed spread sheet, one worksheet per year. I don't bother with the categories. Just put down all the Visa totals with breakouts in red for major items like a new plasma TV :). The checks are entered separately. Here are some major expenses which weren't planned: new roof, new Honda CRV (1994 Toyota went to our son), duct rework under the house, helping son out with his education bills and living expenses once he got his act together :p. Another unplanned item, I won a trip to Paris (airfare only), so now we have the full trip planned and it will cost a bundle but I'm not complaining ::).

Au revoir,
Les
 
Here is something that seems to be getting missed - car 'payments'. It is easy to overlook this in the budget if your car is paid for. At some point, you will be replacing the old one. I suggest annualized that expense. For example, if you expect to spend $25K out of pocket every ten years, that means you are 'spending' an average of $2500/year - but you won't see it in your statement (unless you bought a car that year). Plug in your own $ and years and number of vehicles. I just figure the gains will be roughly equal to car price inflation.

A few people have said this but is seems to be going unheard: It doesn't really matter what other people spend -what is important to you is what you spend. Comparing to others is a good exercise to assure you are not missing something, but use your own numbers.

Look at your present total outflow. I just look at the 'total withdraw' number on my monthly checking account, do that for any account that money comes out of. Adjust for any that is not really 'spent' (transfered to a savings account for example). Then adjust for any differences you anticipate in retirement (as mentioned many times - health insurance!).

-ERD50
 
I would like to retire in 18 months....trying to convince DH that we should be tracking expenses to prepare. We have a general idea, but reading through the posts proves that we need to get a more detailed view. Thanks for sharing!!!
 
Dog said:
I would like to retire in 18 months....trying to convince DH that we should be tracking expenses to prepare. We have a general idea, but reading through the posts proves that we need to get a more detailed view. Thanks for sharing!!!

I ran the numbers so many times my co workers thought I was nuts. However it seems that since I Erd and moved from NJ to NC man am I spending less.

My natural gas, electricity and water, sewer and trash, car insurance and even homeowners is 30% lower. No commuting costs really to speak of now. That 120 mile roundtrip is over so less gasoline.

Then being able to cash out of that ridiculus mortgage of 225,000 and be in a nicer home down here with owning 88% equity in it already is just Kool!
 
paid for house no other debt. company health plan.

DH still works to keep health care which he will carry into his retirement in two years. We have tracked for several years.

Taxes, food, utilities, insurance etc. the real basics around $24,000 a year, bare bones not including cable or any entertainment or gym and never eating out, one car driving to the library or grocery store occasionally.
Costs are helped by a big garden and I cook everything from scratch and neither of us are fashion plates. Work costs from DH commute (his work supplies his uniforms and shoes) add several thousand dollars that won't carry over into retirement.

Add luxuries like cable, travel, wood working, entertainment expenses, occasional new computer or other gadget, owning pets, second car and crafting hobbies and we are closer to $40,000. As times goes on, we will have expenses of a new roof, auto replacement etc so I feel comfortable Mid $40's minimum for the lifestyle we want.
 
savedapile said:
I feel comfortable Mid $40's minimum for the lifestyle we want.

Sounds like if you were paying for medical insurance and housing, this would translate to mid $60's minimum.
 
Just did the budget, and mid 40s sounds right here as well. 2 of us, no kids, renting an apartment in nyc.
 
free4now said:
The numbers reported in this thread are noticeably lower than the numbers reported in the "How much did you spend last year" thread:

http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=11335.0

I wonder if people are leaving lumpy expenses out of the numbers they report here, or if this thread somehow attracts more frugal folks.

The OP was asking about a modest lifestyle so won't get the it takes 200K to get by answers.

I plan to move when retire so won't be able to tell what my cost will be. I want to move to the country, have a well and septic tank so no public water and sewer and probably no internet, maybe no cable tv but added cost for raising pets like a pet steer and a pet hog and a bunch of pet chickens. My grandparent raised pet steers after retirement but they disposed of them every fall and got new ones in the spring so they didn't need to feed them all winter. I remember one named T-Bones, my parents stored him in their freezer. You can store pet hogs in the freezer too when you are tired of feeding them. Then you don't need to buy meat.
I think I could live on $2K per month in retirement plus whatever medical cost maybe 1K more so 36K or more for a single person. I hope to generate 40K in income before I retire.
 
2 of us in the UK. No mortgage. No kids.

Holidays (vacations) $15,000
Football tickets $700
Gym subs $800
cds/books $1,000
Gifts $2,300
Other entertainments $2,000
Other insurance $1,800
Groceries $3,600
Petrol(Gasolene) $3,700
Car (auto) repairs/servicing $3,100
Meals out $1,300
Clothes $3,000
House maintenance repair $3,500
Cash/miscellaneous $6,200
Heating/utilities/phone $4,700
Broadband & Satellite TV $1,200

So I guess about $53,000 a year. Usually varies between $50,000 and $60,000.

I think its cheaper to live over there in the USA (apart from medical insurance which i don't fully understand)
 
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