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Old 06-15-2014, 12:35 PM   #61
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So do the percentages line up to specific dollar levels for net worth?

They add up your assets (including market value of real estate) and subtract your liabilities, come up with a simple net figure and line that up against various thresholds?

The graph shows that $2.7 million is the 99 percentile? Doesn't seem that high.

Must go much steeper from 1% to .01% then.
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Old 06-15-2014, 05:48 PM   #62
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Multiple posters have mentioned Defined Benefit pensions, and how they should be included.

The data for the wealthometer comes from the Federal Reserve's "Survey of Consumer Finances". I looked to see how the SCF handles pensions, this is the best I've done so far

Quote:
Second, pension wealth is treated differently in the two measures. Assets accruing
through defined benefit (DB) pensions plans are an important component of overall household
wealth but one whose levels cannot be determined unambiguously using the SCF. Pension
recipients, and the SCF by extension, cannot put a value on the assets associated with future or
current DB pension payouts without numerous assumptions.14 We therefore do not include DB
pensions in the measure of household wealth using the SCF
http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/f.../201346pap.pdf
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:19 PM   #63
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It would be nice if the output from this tool were in a tabular form with maybe one row for each percentage point allowing the user to see the dollar amounts where the breakpoints are. Not too difficult to peck around with a binary search type of thing to find them, but that's a PITA.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:34 PM   #64
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I do not agree with the idea of including all household members, but I did include the children for the sake of doing the exercise.

Result was we all ended up in the 98th percentile.

We are not American so it is not really relevant, just a bit of fun.
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:33 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by razztazz View Post
Top 4%. For my pension I divided it by .037. That comports with a 100% safe withdrawal rate. There's probably more than one way to skin that cat but it won'y change your position by much. Top 5%, top 4% ... whatever
I used your .037 calculation above, and the # came out close to a different calculation I made some time ago, using just some simple math. So maybe I wasn't off that much. But I'm assuming this means you use your annual pension amount divided by .037? (Sorry if this is way too obvious, it's late. )
Would you mind sharing the source of this factor?
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:29 AM   #66
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97% per person , 2 people. but living in nyc we feel no where near that level.

i think not only does geographic location matter but how the wealth is spread out may matter.

most here would say someone with 40k in home equity ,20k in the bank and 20k in debt is not doing so well.

but if they have 60k in the bank and 20k in debt we may say they are doing better yet the numbers are the same.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:45 AM   #67
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Here's a detailed article (a little old, though) about what it takes to be in the top 1% of wealth in the US.

How Much Money Does It Take To Be In The Top 1% of Wealth and Net Worth in the United States
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:45 AM   #68
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These are the financial assets they are counting. No DBP pensions.


+ Financial Assets Deposits Sight accounts

Savings accounts
Shares

Bonds

Mutual funds

Business Non-self-employed
Money owed to the household as private loans
Private pension plans

Other Options, futures, royalties, etc.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:20 AM   #69
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1%, two people in household and barely squeeking in. However, I certainly don't feel rich - given the cost of living large these days, rich is something over $10MM net worth.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:00 AM   #70
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Feeling rich happens when you get a large windfall, like a very big inheritance, the company stock options hit the big time, or winning the lottery. Something big and something sudden. It changes your spending habits (of course not of those on this forum). With the slow and steady accumulation of wealth over a lifetime you never feel rich no matter how much you have. And the difference in feeling rich or not is how freely you feel like spending. For me being rich has always been about 10x over what I currently have.

On the other hand I have always felt blessed. Always had enough, even when I ate hamburger with corn meal in college, and now especially when I visit third world countries, or see people struggling here.

One day I will see my last sunset, experience my last summer, setup my last Christmas tree, have my last kiss. Being wealthy really, is living and feeling alive every day.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:23 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaMan View Post
Feeling rich happens when you get a large windfall, like a very big inheritance, the company stock options hit the big time, or winning the lottery. Something big and something sudden. It changes your spending habits (of course not of those on this forum). With the slow and steady accumulation of wealth over a lifetime you never feel rich no matter how much you have. And the difference in feeling rich or not is how freely you feel like spending. For me being rich has always been about 10x over what I currently have.

On the other hand I have always felt blessed. Always had enough, even when I ate hamburger with corn meal in college, and now especially when I visit third world countries, or see people struggling here.

One day I will see my last sunset, experience my last summer, setup my last Christmas tree, have my last kiss. Being wealthy really, is living and feeling alive every day.
Good thoughts! +1
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:29 AM   #72
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For me being rich has always been about 10x over what I currently have...
A factor of 5X will do it for me.

That said, I am grateful to have what I now have. And if I can stay at status quo until I croak, I will live very comfortably and have plenty left for my children.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:17 PM   #73
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Why would a private pension count, but not, say, a Federal Government DBP?

Amethyst

Quote:
Originally Posted by rothlev View Post
These are the financial assets they are counting. No DBP pensions.

Private pension plans

.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:21 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Sarpy View Post
I used your .037 calculation above, and the # came out close to a different calculation I made some time ago, using just some simple math. So maybe I wasn't off that much. But I'm assuming this means you use your annual pension amount divided by .037? (Sorry if this is way too obvious, it's late. )

Would you mind sharing the source of this factor?
FireCalc. .3% expenses (slop factor to simulate "Real Life" + the pension is not really inflation adjusted. They just throw in a "kicker" most years to keep me in the game)

50/50 Asset Allocation Stocks/ Money Market funds

The 100% SWR is is actually 0.036582 not .037
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:19 PM   #75
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Why would a private pension count, but not, say, a Federal Government DBP?

Amethyst
I think the "private pension" assets they count are 401k, IRA, etc.

See post #62
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:29 PM   #76
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Thanks for identifying that this Wealthometer is useless for anyone who gets a DB Pension.

Next!
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:38 PM   #77
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Without the pension, 89. With it, 97 for the two of us. I don't think we are that wealthy!
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:17 PM   #78
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This article shows has better overview of rich and ultra rich, really more useful than percentiles:


Rich, really rich, and ultra rich -- the world's widening wealth gap - Jun. 1, 2014
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:27 PM   #79
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From the article:
Net worth $500K-$4M is "upper middle class".
Net worth $4M-$20M is "merely rich".
Net worth $20M-$100M is "really rich".
Net worth > $100M is "ultra rich".
I think they miss this top bracket: "> $1B is "filthy rich".

Yes, I would consider myself "upper middle class" and am comfortable with that label. I would not be a DIY'er if I were rich.

Do not tax me anymore than already done, please.
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:38 PM   #80
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But one of the articles linked earlier said that as little as $1.6 million put you at the top 1%.
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