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Old 01-12-2016, 03:50 PM   #21
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Hello again Supernova. I was one of the herd who abandoned the "Big Blue B" on 12/31. Since most folks knew I was leaving I had the chance to talk over retirement plans with a number of my colleagues (most of whom planned to leave in their early to mid 60s). I was surprised to find how many of them were seriously considering taking the pension buyout - as well as taking SS at 62 (or immediately upon retirement but before FRA, if later).

These are smart people - senior scientists and engineers (T6's and Tech Fellows) who have presumably worked the numbers. They just have lives in which short term demands weigh more heavily than long term planning - at least compared to the long-term-obsessed crew found around these forums. We all make different choices, and to be fair all these folks have nicer houses, drive nicer cars (and most importantly have more kids) than I do. Then again, I've spent 7 of the last 10 days just riding around on my Mountain Bike. Different strokes.
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:59 PM   #22
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Hello again Supernova. I was one of the herd who abandoned the "Big Blue B" on 12/31. Since most folks knew I was leaving I had the chance to talk over retirement plans with a number of my colleagues (most of whom planned to leave in their early to mid 60s). I was surprised to find how many of them were seriously considering taking the pension buyout - as well as taking SS at 62 (or immediately upon retirement but before FRA, if later).

These are smart people - senior scientists and engineers (T6's and Tech Fellows) who have presumably worked the numbers. They just have lives in which short term demands weigh more heavily than long term planning - at least compared to the long-term-obsessed crew found around these forums. We all make different choices, and to be fair all these folks have nicer houses, drive nicer cars (and most importantly have more kids) than I do. Then again, I've spent 7 of the last 10 days just riding around on my Mountain Bike. Different strokes.
Nice hearing back Stepford! There was certainly that incentive to leave by the end of 2015 ("frozen" retiree medical at $20 a month being one).

I'm still hear but there are many days it feels like it might be sooner vs later. PM reviews not very positive, raises have really leveled off, etc. etc.

Could be worse but I'm trying hard not to make an emotional decision just based on me being nudged out.
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:44 PM   #23
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There is a calculation for determining the pension amount. Your HR benefits department has the formula - call the help line and ask.

With rates having risen 0.25 percent last month, I suspect the pension lump sum amount may have come down since the last offering by a little bit. Usually when interest rates rise the present value of the pension drops.
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:21 PM   #24
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I took the lump sum buyout over the pension as it gives me total control. It also allows me to manage what I leave to my heirs if I pass on earlier than planned. It also simplifies overseeing my cash flow. Most of my expense "nut" will be covered by SS so much of everything else is gravy.
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:45 PM   #25
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There is a calculation for determining the pension amount. Your HR benefits department has the formula - call the help line and ask.

With rates having risen 0.25 percent last month, I suspect the pension lump sum amount may have come down since the last offering by a little bit. Usually when interest rates rise the present value of the pension drops.
That's a great idea to give your retirement benefits office a call. Thanks for the feedback!
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:48 PM   #26
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I took the lump sum buyout over the pension as it gives me total control. It also allows me to manage what I leave to my heirs if I pass on earlier than planned. It also simplifies overseeing my cash flow. Most of my expense "nut" will be covered by SS so much of everything else is gravy.
Understood. That is one of the big 4 reasons to take it (leaving $$ for heirs). At 55 I'm thinking I'd have to wait until 59.5 if I took the lump and roll to an IRA unless I want to take a 10% penalty.

I'm not in gravy mode unfortunately. My pension (or lump) if I take it needs to generate about 60% of my income stream
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:49 PM   #27
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There is a calculation for determining the pension amount. Your HR benefits department has the formula - call the help line and ask.

With rates having risen 0.25 percent last month, I suspect the pension lump sum amount may have come down since the last offering by a little bit. Usually when interest rates rise the present value of the pension drops.
1) I seriously doubt it but it's worth a call.

2) Not necessarily, the lump sum can be based on rates as old as August, 2015, depending on the plan year.
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:53 PM   #28
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Understood. That is one of the big 4 reasons to take it (leaving $$ for heirs). At 55 I'm thinking I'd have to wait until 59.5 if I took the lump and roll to an IRA unless I want to take a 10% penalty.
It depends on what the plan document says. This is something that HR can answer for you.
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Old 01-13-2016, 02:13 PM   #29
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I've mentioned this in previous threads but the Lazy B had offered me an early out pension buyout package. I had crunched the numbers and found that what they offered was a really really sweet deal. I accepted the early commencement option only to later have them retract their offer. Whoopsie, they had plugged in the wrong age. How funny. I wasn't amused.

My $.02, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is a mistake.
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Old 01-13-2016, 04:25 PM   #30
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It depends on what the plan document says. This is something that HR can answer for you.
Update: I did call our retirement office and they were pretty darn helpful. She mentioned "IRS 417E3" will be used interest rates. Then something about IRS RP-2000 for current actuarial tables etc. I guess I expected that they need to follow those guidelines.

Then age, yrs of service, gender etc.

The one mystery is she said the company "factor" is not quite ready yet. That will be available on our retirement estimator website on Feb 4th.

Is the "factor" what others refer to a haircut? Lol.
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Old 01-13-2016, 04:26 PM   #31
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I've mentioned this in previous threads but the Lazy B had offered me an early out pension buyout package. I had crunched the numbers and found that what they offered was a really really sweet deal. I accepted the early commencement option only to later have them retract their offer. Whoopsie, they had plugged in the wrong age. How funny. I wasn't amused.

My $.02, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is a mistake.
I recall you saying that offer was pulled back but didn't realize the error on the age part. Bummer. I will need to pay close attention like u say if it looks too tempting.
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Old 01-13-2016, 04:31 PM   #32
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Update: I did call our retirement office and they were pretty darn helpful. She mentioned "IRS 417E3" will be used interest rates. Then something about IRS RP-2000 for current actuarial tables etc. I guess I expected that they need to follow those guidelines.

Then age, yrs of service, gender etc.

The one mystery is she said the company "factor" is not quite ready yet. That will be available on our retirement estimator website on Feb 4th.

Is the "factor" what others refer to a haircut? Lol.
417(e)(3) is the IRS code section that deals with the interest rates. The mortality table is a 50% blend M/F table based on RP2000 projected several years statically past 2016.

the "factor" is an annuity factor that gets multiplied by either your accrued benefit or your immediate annuity (based on the interest rates and mortality described above) - if it isn't ready yet then they may be using December average rates which haven't been released yet
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Old 01-13-2016, 05:10 PM   #33
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I'm not in gravy mode unfortunately. My pension (or lump) if I take it needs to generate about 60% of my income stream
I assume the pension is non-COLA?

If you're really relying on the pension, you sure need to look seriously at taking the monthly check. At least I would.
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Old 01-13-2016, 05:58 PM   #34
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I assume the pension is non-COLA?

If you're really relying on the pension, you sure need to look seriously at taking the monthly check. At least I would.
+1. In general, they give higher payouts compared to commercial annuities.
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Old 01-13-2016, 05:59 PM   #35
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There is also a "relative value" notice that will be in the packet. Definitely read that.
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:07 PM   #36
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Wonder if Boeing will use the health information they are getting from us to determine if a pension buy out will be offered or not. I bet the person that has recorded a blood pressure 170/90 will not get a pension buy out offer!
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:14 AM   #37
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Wonder if Boeing will use the health information they are getting from us to determine if a pension buy out will be offered or not. I bet the person that has recorded a blood pressure 170/90 will not get a pension buy out offer!
I doubt it
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:29 AM   #38
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417(e)(3) is the IRS code section that deals with the interest rates. The mortality table is a 50% blend M/F table based on RP2000 projected several years statically past 2016.

the "factor" is an annuity factor that gets multiplied by either your accrued benefit or your immediate annuity (based on the interest rates and mortality described above) - if it isn't ready yet then they may be using December average rates which haven't been released yet
Thanks---the makes sense yes. Appreciate the input. I did some reading over on the BH site and there is a great thread on this subject too. One factor they point out is the tax impact of taking the annuity vs lump. I had not thought about that until I read that thread. Hopefully it's not bad from to attach info from BH on this site.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/vie....php?p=2016199
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:33 AM   #39
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Wonder if Boeing will use the health information they are getting from us to determine if a pension buy out will be offered or not. I bet the person that has recorded a blood pressure 170/90 will not get a pension buy out offer!
That crossed my mind as well now that we need to submit our health screening numbers and do that health assessment as well (unless you want to pay another $100 a month). Not certain that would be legal actually.

I believe it might come down to taking our expected pension income stream over our life expectancy (83 for me I believe), then use the IRS interest rate and discount it back to a present value number. I did call Total Access Pension office yesterday.
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:35 AM   #40
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I assume the pension is non-COLA?

If you're really relying on the pension, you sure need to look seriously at taking the monthly check. At least I would.
Yes, non-COLA for our pension but it's been than a poke in the eye right
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