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Old 07-23-2008, 02:46 PM   #161
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Two hoary marmots completeing a financial deal. The one one the left is screwing the one on the right, who thinks everything is copacetic.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:50 PM   #162
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There may be some truly stupid people out there, but I suspect most are aware of what they are doing to themselves and for some reason refuse to stop until they do hit rock bottom. I just don't understand it.
Financial suicide is similar to other forms of self-destructive behaviour (e.g. smoking, drinking, overeating, etc.).

Some debtors probably feel they have little or nothing to lose. If you're already insolvent and facing imminent bankruptcy, why not 'live it up' while people are crazy enough to keep extending credit? That is certainly not the way I choose to live my life; but from their perspective, it probably makes sense.

Alternatively, some people have a very low self-image, and may subconsciously crave the self-definition of being dunned by collection agencies and otherwise made to feel like failures / victims.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:50 PM   #163
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Excellent, Harley! Anytime we can help encourage these thread diversions!
I bet one of those marmots has a low FICO score.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:55 PM   #164
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"May I have a VISA card, please?"
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:55 PM   #165
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Sarah, now you have your choice of avatars.

Both photos are adorable and have totally taken my mind off that poor woman in the OP. Let's send her a marmot too!
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:00 PM   #166
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Noooo, it's for the shareholders.. and the bondholders and the holders of mortgage-backed securities, and the hedge funds and the IBs and Fannie and Freddie and now the Federal government and ultimately the taxpayer to worry about, NOW.. isn't it!?!?!?

Because they all couldn't wait to make crappy zero-percent-down loans on 110% or even 120% of the sales price!!!!! How many exclamation points will do, here?
According to your logic, and your stated way of thinking, shouldn't we all feel equally sorry for all of the poor bankers that lost huge amounts of money? What about all the piling on of them?
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:00 PM   #167
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The best coat I ever bought is a Marmot shell with a zip-in vest liner. It's great to be able to switch between having a vest, a wind-resistant spring jacket and a winter coat all in one (sometimes you need all three of those in the course of a day in Minnesota).

Oh, and we probably charged it (to get the reward) and then paid it off by the next balance cycle.
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:03 PM   #168
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The best coat I ever bought is a Marmot shell with a zip-in vest liner. It's great to be able to switch between having a vest, a wind-resistant spring jacket and a winter coat all in one (sometimes you need all three of those in the course of a day in Minnesota).

Oh, and we probably charged it (to get the reward) and then paid it off by the next balance cycle.
You must be really little to fit into a marmot shell....
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:04 PM   #169
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Leaving the rodents for a moment to discuss cold weather clothing...yet another thread hijack...I bought some yak gloves in Mongolia...here's my favorite "yak in black".
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:06 PM   #170
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I bought some yak gloves in Mongolia...here's my favorite "yak in black".
Oh, so it was one of those 'U-Pick' places?

And I thought the lobster tank at the restaurant was a little extreme...
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:11 PM   #171
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Is it thread hijacking if you manage to include Marmots and the original topic about not being able to pay the bills?
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:18 PM   #172
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You can help get us back on track by post by posting pictures of hoary marmots
Since you asked....
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Old 07-23-2008, 03:33 PM   #173
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Since you asked....
I un-ask, I un-ask!
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:21 PM   #174
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didn't anyone ever say to her "you're living an unsustainable lifestyle, and you're going to hit bottom eventually"?
great point, Harley.. but that question should be asked also of:
the Federal government
the banks and hedge funds
the municipalities
etc.

We can think of how to stage a personal 'intervention'.. but how do you stage an intervention on the entire US of A?
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:28 PM   #175
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What a thread hijack!

I had to log off to go run some errands. Get back in 2 hrs, and everyone talks about marmots.

When I left, I was asking what nutria tastes like, and I thought someone was about to post a recipe.

Now, about the debtor woman, I will repeat that these people have low EQ, a disease or deficiency, whatever you want to call it, which also afflicts people in higher socioeconomic classes, like the veterans Nords described in another thread. I am not sure that there can be a cure. For example, some people like to gamble, and if you ban all casinos, they will flock to Schwab and ETrade. What can we do?
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Old 07-23-2008, 04:35 PM   #176
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If I may, a random photo of the Hanson Brothers.

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Old 07-23-2008, 05:58 PM   #177
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Now, about the debtor woman, I will repeat that these people have low EQ, a disease or deficiency, whatever you want to call it, which also afflicts people in higher socioeconomic classes, like the veterans Nords described in another thread. I am not sure that there can be a cure. For example, some people like to gamble, and if you ban all casinos, they will flock to Schwab and ETrade. What can we do?
Harrah's has a system whereby people can place themselves on "Do Not Admit" status. If they approach the casino, they will be barred. I am not sure if all the security staff have photos, or just how they do this. Also not sure if a do not admit listee can just say, Oh, I don't need that anymore and go on in. The casinos get away with stronger behavior than McDonalds could, so maybe they have answers for this.

Anyway, there are other examples where civil liability or licensing strictures force businesses which otherwise profit from people's self destructive behavior to police that behavior. An easy example is the bar that cannot serve an obviously drunk patron. The better this stuff is enforced, the more careful bartenders tend to be, as their jobs are on the line.

Overall, I think I would not care if these losers all just hit the streets and joined the chorus of beggars. It used to bother me, but since moving to the city I realize that Jesus was right- the poor will always be with us, so put your mind to food or drink or anything pleasant and let it be.

But that is not what happens. What happens is bailouts- not so much of the individuals but of the institutions that sold them their fixes. And who pays for it? As substantial taxpayers, me and my two sons, among others in the same boat.

My campaign is against stupidity, not among debtors but among voters and taxpayers. But Jesus may have said something discouraging about that too.
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:59 PM   #178
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According to your logic, and your stated way of thinking, shouldn't we all feel equally sorry for all of the poor bankers that lost huge amounts of money? What about all the piling on of them?
armor99, because "they" personally did not lose money. They hardly ever do. The shareholders/bondholders/taxpayers lose.

Quote:
Freddie Mac CEO Dick Syron’s unique pay package whereby compensation moves inversely with performance paid off in 2007. Mr. Syron’s pay increased 25% or $3.6 million. Freddie Mac’s stock price dropped 61% in 2007, while net income swung from a $2.3 billion profit in 2006 to a $3 billion loss. The company projects steeper losses in 2008. Included in Mr. Syron’s compensation was a special one time $1.25 million bonus for extending his employment agreement through 2009.

A company spokesman stated, Freddie Mac is committed to take the company into insolvency and only a man of Mr. Syron’s skill set can get the job accomplished. We appreciate his extending his employment contract as it might take longer than 2 years to accomplish this goal. Mr. Syron was unavailable for comment...
MonkeyBusinessBlog: Good Thing CEO Compensation is Getting Straightened Out
(goofy random blog found by chance)

but it's pretty much anywhere you care to look:
CEO pay climbs despite companies' struggles - USATODAY.com

While we reserve harsher sentences for the crack dealer than for the crackhead, the prisons are full of many more crackheads than serious dealers. And in our society debt <=> crack.. but we collectively need and want the crack, so the dealers are rarely prosecuted, and are considered pillars of society, rather.

My right-wing sis got a Pepperdine MBA. She defends the school's right-wing, Christian, moral approach to business.

Pepperdine People Magazine, Fall 2005 - Pepperdine University

Quote:
The Mozilo Family Executive Dining Center in Villa Graziadio represents a recent choice that this couple made, an investment in education that will endure beyond their lifetimes. ... Mozilo holds an honorary doctor of laws degree from the business school at Pepperdine University. Balancing leadership with community involvement, Mozilo has received the Hogan Entrepreneurial Award, the Ellis Island Medal of Honor, and the Albert Schweitzer Award for service to youth.
Cracks me up.. the "Executive Dining Center" is an "investment in education".. what? an education in assessing various vintages of Bordeaux and Dom Perignon? THANK GOD that executives visiting Pepperdine have been saved from -I can only imagine- utter squalor during their repasts.

Man, do I want to see this guy in handcuffs.
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Old 07-23-2008, 06:09 PM   #179
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Apparently she persuaded her son to co-sign a loan application and then spent lots of money on home shopping channels (“'Eight weeks in bed by yourself is very dangerous when you have a TV and credit card,' Ms. McLeod said.”). Now her son's credit history has taken a beating, and she is planning to walk away from her obligations by declaring bankruptcy.

That's not taking care of her family, or doing the right thing.
What's done is done. What exactly do you think she should do as this point? Given her health, I doubt her employment opportunities are very good as this point. Any job that she does get is not likely to pay enough to service $80K worth of debt.
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Old 07-23-2008, 06:11 PM   #180
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Maybe what we are seeing here is a type of Stockholm Syndrome. I used to think that ordinary people who sided strongly with power might at least be hoping that they could aspire to that power themselves- but our posters are a bunch of people whose major ambition is to quit working! Not much hope of power there!

So maybe it is more magical- identify with power, and maybe some of it will rub off on oneself.

Don't worry, we will just have our fat rendered like everyone else's.

Ha
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