You're lucky you are able to retire early because....

[ziggy29]

There *is* sometimes an element of luck to it, but usually people say this out of jealousy, I suspect. Folks my age going into the workforce in the 1980s, for example, may have signed up for a j*b in the private sector with a pension and retiree health insurance that got taken away. If they simply trusted their deal would remain in place and didn't plan for their own retirement savings, they would be screwed.

Had they chosen another employer, either one of the few in the private sector that still gives this to folks my age and younger or in the public sector, they would be able to retire at a decent age. So yes, I think to some degree this is bad luck. But they still made the mistake of assuming their employer's deal would remain in place. If my first employer didn't freeze my pension or drop retiree health insurance, I would have been able to retire very comfortably at 55. Now, 55 may still be possible but it will be a more modest lifestyle -- and that wouldn't be possible at all now unless I was putting 10% or more into retirement savings since I was 23.

And let's not forget that a lot of good, hard working folks have been screwed by this economy and job market. Some of their unemployment and underemployment which makes retirement a longshot is also bad luck.

Having said all that, yes, there is luck but I think there's also a lot of sour grapes in this bottle of whine. There's still no better predictor for retirement hopes of young folks in the middle class than saving for yourself early, often and almost to the point of bleeding, since it's become abundantly obvious your employer doesn't have your back and they aren't your friend or protector.

 

[Spanky]

As a white male born to an upper middle class family in the suburbs of a bustling metropolis, my private college education qualifies me to assure everyone - one's financial success results entirely from hard work and prudent spending.

I am wealthy because I earned it!

You are kidding, right?

 

[ziggy29]

You are kidding, right?

I suspect the reference here is to people who were born on third base and act like they hit a triple to get there.

 

[Spanky]

T
Having said all that, yes, there is luck but I think there's also a lot of sour grapes in this bottle of whine. There's still no better predictor for retirement hopes of young folks in the middle class than saving for yourself early, often and almost to the point of bleeding, since it's become abundantly obvious your employer doesn't have your back and they aren't your friend or protector.

Agreed - We remind our two daughters occasionally about the importance of planning for their futures. That is, choosing the "right" career, saving, investing and budgeting, etc, are paramount to financial success. However, hard work and ingenuity attribute to only a part of the success. Luck does play a part albeit sitting around, waiting, and lacking any ambition is definitely a guarantee for failure (with the exception of a winning a lottery). Luck does bring opportunities, e.g., being at the right place at the right time. It's up to us to seize certain opportunities. Therefore, always keep an eye on opportunities, take prudent risks and learn from mistakes.

 

[pb4uski]

I just say yes I am. Thinking I was lucky I didn't get pregnant unexpectedly, only had two kids when we wanted them, stayed married for 36 years, drive cars to the ground and stayed in a normal house always putting money away.

Also, we never had the things happen to us that would have prevented early retirement, such as extended sickness or layoffs.

I also find people don't want to know how you did it. That's life.

+1 similar story

 

[ziggy29]

Luck does play a part albeit sitting around, waiting, and lacking any ambition is definitely a guarantee for failure (with the exception of a winning a lottery). Luck does bring opportunities, e.g., being at the right place at the right time. It's up to us to seize certain opportunities. Therefore, always keep an eye on opportunities, take prudent risks and learn from mistakes.

My favorite definition of "luck" is this one:

Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.

 

[pimpmyretirement]

You are kidding, right?

I forgot the

 

[Koolau]

I had a serious discussion about "luck" and planning with a couple of different friends from my old Megacorp. One was quite open about his choice NOT to retire - ever. He believed because of his health (diabetes) he would never retire. Therefore, he chose to w*rk, buy toys, enjoy his time off - but had no plans beyond that. I thought that was at least an honest approach with a logical if, in my opinion, flawed conclusion.

A second friend believed that I must have had a lot of extra money coming in and that he had gotten the shaft at work. I'm sure our salaries were not dramatically different. He didn't want to discuss his "toys", big house, frequent vacations, etc. He also had attempted to take short cuts to wealth once he realized time was short and his saving were meager. He found a broker who told him he could live on 8% of his savings (with the broker's help, heh, heh). Last I heard, my old friend had gone back to w*rk, selling stuff on Ebay for other people, driving cars to the auction and selling "antiques". Perhaps a good life, but not my cup of tea.

When the second friend called me "lucky", I replied that "Luck had nothing to do with it." I have to admit, that there was actually some luck involved as others have mentioned. The biggest difference between us was that I saved and he didn't.

 

[flyfishnevada]

I think the lucky thing is just a way of assuring themselves that their poor choices aren't the reason they can't retire. It's just bad luck.

 

[ziggy29]

I think the lucky thing is just a way of assuring themselves that their poor choices aren't the reason they can't retire. It's just bad luck.

But at the same time, there *is* a luck aspect to it sometimes: a decision that seems perfectly reasonable and responsible at the time can backfire down the road -- and there's no "do over".

My personal (and well-chronicled) example here is that when I was out of college I joined an employer that provided a pension and retiree health insurance -- just like public sector jobs did. So at the time I made that decision it was not a "poor choice" in terms of securing my retirement. I *did* choose a job with good retirement benefits just like someone working for (say) the state.

Fast forward 10-11 years, and my pension is frozen, retiree health insurance taken away even as those who chose the public sector mostly kept theirs. Did I make a "bad decision" for retirement security by not taking a government job? Only if you think at age 22 I should have known what was going to happen in the future. So yes, this was bad luck -- not a bad decision. (Fortunately even when I had these retirement bennies I was aggressively funding my 401K so I wasn't hopelessly unable to retire like others who had this rug pulled out from under then.) Only with the wisdom of hindsight does it look like a "poor decision".

It's an excuse to blame everything on "bad luck" or to dismiss good fortune as just being "lucky." But at the same time bad things happen to good people who make responsible decisions -- and to dismiss their laments and pretend that they are just slacking off and not at all the victims of bad luck comes off as a little "let them eat cakey" to me.

 

[W2R]

Fast forward 10-11 years, and my pension is frozen, retiree health insurance taken away even as those who chose the public sector mostly kept theirs. Did I make a "bad decision"? Only if you think at age 22 I should have known what was going to happen in the future. So yes, this was bad luck -- not a bad decision. (Fortunately even when I had these retirement bennies I was aggressively funding my 401K so I wasn't hopelessly unable to retire like others who had this rug pulled out from under then.)

But see? You took what looked like the best path for you, but prepared for the possibility that something might happen. It's not luck that you did that, but planning and hard work. To me that's a huge difference. I'd guess that it wasn't always easy to aggressively fund that 401K, and you probably had to do without some things you might have liked in order to do it. Your "belt and suspenders" planning, doing without, and hard work is what will allow you to retire, not simply luck.

I would even guess that almost nobody goes through life without at least one plan backfiring on them or one unexpected problem arising. Most of us don't reach retirement because we were lucky and nothing ever went wrong for us. We make the best choices we can, work hard, save, prepare, and plan, plan, plan. Often those who say we are lucky and they were not, are just unwilling to do the same IMO.

Edited to add: In other words, +1 !

 

[Chuckanut]

I just say yes I am. Thinking I was lucky I didn't get pregnant unexpectedly, only had two kids when we wanted them, stayed married for 36 years, drive cars to the ground and stayed in a normal house always putting money away.

What!?!? You didn't drive fancy sports cars, spends your after work hours at bars, eat breakfast, lunch and dinner out? You did not buy a 4200 sq ft mini-mansion And then furnish it with costly things, heat it, maintain it, and pay taxes on it??

 

[youbet]

Have you heard this one? Now that I am telling people of my plans to retire before 65, I keep hearing how 'lucky' I am to be able to do this. Maybe there is some part of luck involved. But, the last time I checked the Good Fairy had not bopped me on the head with her magic wand and caused money to flow into my bank accounts like flood water flowing into the Gulf.

I don't know what exact age you'll finally retire at Chuckanut, but I'm guessing you haven't been able to check out of the working world as an early retiree and are perhaps in your 60's and still working. Since you didn't RE, by the typical description of "early retirement" on this board, I wonder what you see when looking back as the main shortcomings you encountered? Lack of career planning? Unable to control spending? Poor investment decisions? Dealt a tough hand to play?

If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently so you could "retire early?"

 

[W2R]

perhaps in your 60's and still working. Since you've failed, by the typical description of "early retirement" on this board,

Actually I have never seen any "typical description" of what early retirement is on this board. It varies all over the place. Perhaps more than any other description, I have heard that retiring before SS full retirement age (66 for many of us) implies early retirement. But still, I would not say this definition is typical any more than any other.

Many of us including some of our oldest and most often posting members retired in their 60's and oddly, I'm not aware of any who feel they somehow failed in doing so.

 

[youbet]

at the same time bad things happen to good people who make responsible decisions -- and to dismiss their laments and pretend that they are just slacking off and not at all the victims of bad luck comes off as a little "let them eat cakey" to me.

Yeah, sh*t happens. When I had a decision point regarding ER at 52 yo, I opted to use about a fourth of my FIRE investments to fund a trust for my grandson who is afflicted with cerebral palsy. My choice and no regrets. But I then didn't RE until 58 and I tell ya, I would have rather have had those six years to myself even though my job at MegaCorp wasn't bad by most standards.

I agree with you, folks who like to assume everyone who isn't as prepared to RE as themselves must have "slacked off" are insecure folks who need to bash others in order to feel good about themselves.

 

[Chuckanut]

Well, I am not so early as many of you folks, but I am earlier than many of my peers who are going all the way to 66 when they can get full SS benefits and no deduction on their pension for retiring early. What did I do wrong? OH, a career switch that caused me to drop to the bottom of my pay scale. Two kids who soaked up money. And an ex wife who took off with half of the assets we planned to use for ER.

 

[youbet]

Actually I have never seen any "typical description" of what early retirement is on this board. It varies all over the place. Perhaps more than any other description, I have heard that retiring before SS full retirement age (66 for many of us) implies early retirement.

Many of us, like me, REWahoo, Rich_in_Tampa, and many others retired in their 60's and oddly, I'm not aware of any of us who feels like we failed in doing so.

I'm going by both the descriptions of board participants and by the description of RE in the FireCalc introduction which refers to it as retiring before pensions and SS are normally available. Hence, the need to accumulate a Fire portfolio of investments used to fund life without income form w*rk. FireCalc is useful for testing the survivability, historically, of a RE scenario given a portfolio and a time frame.

Where in my post did you see a reference to you, REWahoo or Rich_in_Tampa? Are you reading something into my post that isn't there?

 

[Chuckanut]

Actually I have never seen any "typical description" of what early retirement is on this board. It varies all over the place. Perhaps more than any other description, I have heard that retiring before SS full retirement age (66 for many of us) implies early retirement. But still, I would not say this definition is typical any more than any other.

Many of us including some of our oldest and most often posting members retired in their 60's and oddly, I'm not aware of any who feel they somehow failed in doing so.

I would say it is fair to use the SS age of ER (before 66 for mosty of us) and/or the age at which the pension(if one has a pension) does not get reduced for retiring early. Or maybe it should be the age where you get discounted National Park pass??

 

[W2R]

I don't know what exact age you'll finally retire at Chuckanut, but I'm guessing you've failed to check out of the working world as an early retiree and are perhaps in your 60's and still working. Since you've failed, by the typical description of "early retirement" on this board,

I'm going by both the descriptions of board participants

Which I think anyone would agree are all over the place;

and by the description of RE in the FireCalc introduction which refers to it as retiring before pensions and SS are normally available.

Right, in one's mid 60's, as far as the model is concerned.

 

[youbet]

What did I do wrong? OH, a career switch that caused me to drop to the bottom of my pay scale. Two kids who soaked up money. And an ex wife who took off with half of the assets we planned to use for ER.

Hey, you didn't necessarily do anything "wrong." You just had life circumstances that prevented you from hitting the goal. (I'm assuming that your participation on this board means your target was RE as opposed to normal retirement.)

In your case, I guess this kind of stuff just caused you to miss RE. For others, similar things are causing them to miss even the "normal retirement" target. Sh*t happens as they say.

I've often reflected on my decisions which caused me to stay hitched to the plow until 58. No real regrets here. There were some investment decisions I'd like to have another go-around with. And a career move or two that could have been orchestrated more advantageously. But again, sh*t happens.

I'm sure you have items you'd like to go back and improve on so perhaps you could cut the apron strings from wo*k despite your unavoidable life issues. We all do.

 

[mickeyd]

lucky you are able to retire

Luck has nothing to do with it.

 

[youbet]

Luck has nothing to do with it.

While I generally agree with you mickeyd, sometimes when I look back it's really, really tough to not label a few events in life as being "lucky" or "unlucky."

When my grandson was born with cerebral palsy, it's soooo tempting to describe that as "unlucky." But, of course, the decision to fund a trust for him (and delay my retirement) was strictly my own, so I suppose that removes the "luck" aspect from that decision, at least as it pertains to RE.

I had some investments do very well despite me not thinking these would be investments that would soar. I've convinced DW it was my doing. But in the back of my mind, I can't help but feel a little lucky.

I could name a few other perhaps "lucky" or "unlucky" scenarios in my life but I won't bore you with them. And again, I'm not disagreeing with you regarding the concept of making our own luck. Just rambling that sometimes I struggle to not think of a few things as having a bit of "luck" or "unluckiness" associated with them.

Your're fortunate to be able to have things be so black and white, to be able to know that your own personal circumstances, good and bad, are 100% your own doing.

 

[youbet]

Originally posted by W2R
Many of us, like me, REWahoo, Rich_in_Tampa, and many others retired in their 60's and oddly, I'm not aware of any of us who feels like we failed in doing so.

I'm not saying (and referencing my post see nothing to imply that I did) that folks who retired in their 60's "failed" or that they should have any regrets. (And I made NO mention of you, REWahoo or Rich_in_Tampa.) Quite the contrary, I'm one of those folks who thinks that before we laugh at those still working and unable to RE, we should be thankful for our own circumstances that have brought us to our happy outcomes. Observing some geezer toiling unhappily to put bread on the table brings no extra joy to my RE status. If he/she feels I'm "lucky," so be it. I don't need to look down at them and laugh from my fortunate position.

This whole thread with its piling on, laughing and finger pointing at others not doing as well as ourselves just left me a little cold.

Sorry if I'm spoiling the fun.

Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Have a great 2012.

 

[Alan]

I would say it is fair to use the SS age of ER (before 66 for mosty of us) and/or the age at which the pension(if one has a pension) does not get reduced for retiring early. Or maybe it should be the age where you get discounted National Park pass??

I'd just like to say that everyone is welcome on this site whether they retired at 30 or are still working at 90.

Happy Holidays

 

[W2R]

I'd just like to say that everyone is welcome on this site whether they retired at 30 or are still working at 90.

Happy Holidays

+5000 This is what I am trying to say. We are all welcome here and nobody should feel like they don't belong. Being an early retiree is something we can each define for ourselves when it comes to what "early" means and what "retiree" means. Probably 99.9999% of us define this for ourselves already.

Happy Holidays, everyone! For those who celebrate it, this is our one and only Christmas Eve, 2011.