Car Maintenance Rant, Part 2

[ERD50]

I dont dispute the facts but how is water getting into a closed brake fluid system? I flush the fluid when the pads / rotors are changed, ie when the system is opened up. Opening it up just for the sake of flushing is why I lol'd. ...

You're right, doing a flush when other service is performed might be all you need - brake pads are replaced fairly often (maybe not in a hybrid/EV?)

I'm not sure how water gets into the system, as others said, it might be open to adjust to pressure changes? I'd have to research that, but I tend to go by the owner's manual anyway, figuring they have done the research. Though looking around a bit, I was surprised at the different recs across different mfg. Are their systems that different? Their analysis, level of caution that different? I don't know.

If you are heating up the brakes enough to boil the fluid, thats driving like a Nascar driver.

Not at all. Your brakes go way over boiling temps with routine driving - though some of that is dissipated before getting to the hydraulic fluid. If what you say was true, we'd probably just use radiator coolant in your brakes, and only NASCAR drivers would use a special oil.


Which brings up a question for the car guys/gals:

So why do we have special brake fluid? Why not just motor oil? And what is it about using a fluid that is hygroscopic? What is so special about the needs of brake fluid that it seems the only thing that works is something with the really bad property of absorbing water? No alternatives? Why?

-ERD50

 

[aja8888]

Which brings up a question for the car guys/gals:

So why do we have special brake fluid? Why not just motor oil? And what is it about using a fluid that is hygroscopic? What is so special about the needs of brake fluid that it seems the only thing that works is something with the really bad property of absorbing water? No alternatives? Why?

-ERD50

Brake systems see very high pressure and lots of heat. Brake fluid is hydraulic fluid that is similar to what's used in mechanical systems (pumps, cylinders, hydraulic motors, etc). DOT rating is necessary for safety. Here's a good wirtie up:

Brake fluid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Motor oil is a lubricating fluid and has many different properties for it's application.

 

[ERD50]

Brake systems see very high pressure and lots of heat. Brake fluid is hydraulic fluid that is similar to what's used in mechanical systems (pumps, cylinders, hydraulic motors, etc). DOT rating is necessary for safety. Here's a good wirtie up:

Brake fluid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Motor oil is a lubricating fluid and has many different properties for it's application.

Thanks, very interesting. So being hygroscopic is bad, but not being hygroscopic can be worse!

Hygroscopic fluid absorbs the water, but keeps it in suspension, so it isn't a problem in small amounts. But if it isn't hygroscopic, it separates, and can pool and freeze or the higher concentrations at that point cause other problems.

-ERD50

 

[Sunset]

I brought my brand new 2014 Silverado into the Chevy dealership at 5,000 miles to get the free oil change. This is the first and last time I will bring this machine into the dealer. They forced me to wait 3hours for a mandatory safety recall and I left with what sounds like an exhaust leak after they mucked with my rear axle/transfer case. I thought about going back to complain but that's all it would be is just another complaint. I am thinking about bringing the truck to my old mechanic friend, but I'm hesitant I will come across as an impossible to please person.

All I know is when I brought the truck in for the oil change, it was whisper quiet and now it sounds like a dang exhaust leak every time one of the cylinders fires.

You should complain and bring it back for them to correct, it's under warranty so any issues should be covered.

I just brought my new Sienna in for its 5K tire rotation, and they found leaking oil, had to drop the engine to fix it. (they claim).
I do see the oil is changed, and a wire on the engine was not put back in its clip, so maybe they did some work.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed as anytime you drop an engine, there are so many things disconnected and reconnected there is the chance for something to be not quite right and fail later.

Warranty covered it and the 2 day car rental.

 

[wmc1000]

Hygroscopic - cool I learned a new word and definition today!

 

[SmithOp]

I don't think any of them are sealed. Take alook at your M/C cap. Doesn't it have a tiny vent hole?

Sure it does, but there is also a rubber diaphram on the underside to keep moisture out. The hole allows the diaphram to adjust to different atmospheric pressure and lower as the brakes wear and fluid level drops. I check fluid level in the master cylinder and top up as part of normal under the hood maintenance checks.

In old cars, pre 1950s maybe there wasnt a diaphram and the hole did let in moisture, even then the recommendation was changing fluid every couple of years unless you live in a rain forest climate.

I'm a docent at an auto museum so I know a little about old cars.

The only place I can think of concern in modern cars are the seals on the disc caliper piston, driving in the rain or through water maybe force it in around the seal. That is one seal I check and lubricate or replace when doing a brake job, the rubber can dry out and crack.

Ive never had brake problems in modern cars, but I had a 59 Chevy Apache that leaked fluid like a sieve until I rebuilt the brake pistons, it was easy to see the fluid leaking in the brake drums.


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk

 

[aja8888]

Sure it does, but there is also a rubber diaphram on the underside to keep moisture out. The hole allows the diaphram to adjust to different atmospheric pressure and lower as the brakes wear and fluid level drops. I check fluid level in the master cylinder and top up as part of normal under the hood maintenance checks.

In old cars, pre 1950s maybe there wasnt a diaphram and the hole did let in moisture, even then the recommendation was changing fluid every couple of years unless you live in a rain forest climate.

I'm a docent at an auto museum so I know a little about old cars.

The only place I can think of concern in modern cars are the seals on the disc caliper piston, driving in the rain or through water maybe force it in around the seal. That is one seal I check and lubricate or replace when doing a brake job, the rubber can dry out and crack.

Ive never had brake problems in modern cars, but I had a 59 Chevy Apache that leaked fluid like a sieve until I rebuilt the brake pistons, it was easy to see the fluid leaking in the brake drums.


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk

When I did a brake job on my old 1995 Chevy 1500 truck, I rebuilt the calipers (hone cylinders, new seals). I remember finding rust and pitting in the caliper cylinder bores. Minor, though. The brake fluid was never changed prior to the brake job, probably 5 years in.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

If you have manual transmission, don't forget the clutch hydraulics - master and slave cylinders are subject to the same corrosion and they are often neglected.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I'm a docent at an auto museum so I know a little about old cars.

Which one? I love old-car museums.

 

[Bamaman]

Service writers are paid on commission, so what do you think, they will sell as much service as they can, necessary or not.

I used to think Finance Managers/Business Managers were the most underhanded people in a car dealership.

Service Writers are not your friend. They are very highly paid commission salesmen. Their job is selling $1000 brake jobs to little old ladies that ought to be paying $300. And they are totally without consciences.

 

[spncity]

Lots of good info here... So feel free to contribute any ideas you may have about this issue for a 2004 Toyota Camry. Here's the sequence of events:

1. Cassette player ceases to work
2. Passenger airbag indicator starts acting funky. Sometimes says on. Sometimes completely out. Finally stays "on" even when no one is in the seat.
3. A few days later, general airbag indicator near speedometer blinks on and off now and then and eventually stays "on".
4. Taken to dealer. Dealer finds a pair of sneakers under the passenger seat. Extracts shoes. Declares problem fixed for the $129 diagnostic fee.
5. The next day the problem is back - airbag indicator lights are back on. Take car back to dealer.
6. Dealer offers to replace a module for $900 but says they can't guarantee this will fix the problem. Work not yet authorized. Need to think about this.
7. A few days later, the clock/info button in the steering wheel that "toggles" the display between four (4) items (clock, average MPG, distance remaining, and current MPG) now "only" toggles between two (2) of the four pieces of information (clock and average MPG).

Thank you in advance for any suggestions......

 

[ERD50]

Lots of good info here... So feel free to contribute any ideas you may have about this issue for a 2004 Toyota Camry. Here's the sequence of events:

1. Cassette player ceases to work
2. Passenger airbag indicator starts acting funky. Sometimes says on. Sometimes completely out. Finally stays "on" even when no one is in the seat.
3. A few days later, general airbag indicator near speedometer blinks on and off now and then and eventually stays "on".
4. Taken to dealer. Dealer finds a pair of sneakers under the passenger seat. Extracts shoes. Declares problem fixed for the $129 diagnostic fee.
5. The next day the problem is back - airbag indicator lights are back on. Take car back to dealer.
6. Dealer offers to replace a module for $900 but says they can't guarantee this will fix the problem. Work not yet authorized. Need to think about this.
7. A few days later, the clock/info button in the steering wheel that "toggles" the display between four (4) items (clock, average MPG, distance remaining, and current MPG) now "only" toggles between two (2) of the four pieces of information (clock and average MPG).

Thank you in advance for any suggestions......

All could be related to a bad 'clock spring' (the way they wind the conductors so you can turn the wheel, and keep wires from tangling).

But even if the dealer replaces that, there could be other problems, like shorts in the clock spring damaged a module. Probably why they won't guarantee it.

Cassettes are soooo 1990's. Get a cassette adapter and use a portable flash memory player.

-ERD50

 

[SmithOp]

Which one? I love old-car museums.

California Auto Museum in Sacramento. It used to be the Towe Ford Museum.


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk

 

[spncity]

All could be related to a bad 'clock spring' (the way they wind the conductors so you can turn the wheel, and keep wires from tangling).

But even if the dealer replaces that, there could be other problems, like shorts in the clock spring damaged a module. Probably why they won't guarantee it.

Cassettes are soooo 1990's. Get a cassette adapter and use a portable flash memory player.

-ERD50

Lol - I had a cassette adapter connected to an iPod (vehicle too old to have direct connect). When it stopped working, I thought it was the adapter... but no such luck. It took a few months for the second problem to show up.

So - if replacing one thing at a time (the most likely solution) in order - is the best guess to replace the clock spring first? It seems pretty straightforward and I'm guessing doesn't require removing the entire dashboard?

Kindest regards.

 

[ERD50]

Lol - I had a cassette adapter connected to an iPod (vehicle too old to have direct connect). When it stopped working, I thought it was the adapter... but no such luck. It took a few months for the second problem to show up.

So - if replacing one thing at a time (the most likely solution) in order - is the best guess to replace the clock spring first? It seems pretty straightforward and I'm guessing doesn't require removing the entire dashboard?

Kindest regards.

You could think about replacing the OEM unit with a cheap replacement rasio. The new ones will have an AUX input, and often a USB port to play direct from a memory card (the unit become your iPod/player replacement).

Can't say about the clock spring - there are all sorts of possibilities, that was just one. It would depend on the actual diagnosis is, and the specific model. Get a second opinion form a respected independent mechanic maybe?

-ERD50

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Lots of good info here... So feel free to contribute any ideas you may have about this issue for a 2004 Toyota Camry. Here's the sequence of events:

1. Cassette player ceases to work
2. Passenger airbag indicator starts acting funky. Sometimes says on. Sometimes completely out. Finally stays "on" even when no one is in the seat.
3. A few days later, general airbag indicator near speedometer blinks on and off now and then and eventually stays "on".
4. Taken to dealer. Dealer finds a pair of sneakers under the passenger seat. Extracts shoes. Declares problem fixed for the $129 diagnostic fee.
5. The next day the problem is back - airbag indicator lights are back on. Take car back to dealer.
6. Dealer offers to replace a module for $900 but says they can't guarantee this will fix the problem. Work not yet authorized. Need to think about this.
7. A few days later, the clock/info button in the steering wheel that "toggles" the display between four (4) items (clock, average MPG, distance remaining, and current MPG) now "only" toggles between two (2) of the four pieces of information (clock and average MPG).

Get on a Toyota forum like Toyotanation.com and use the forum search function -- your problems likely are not isolated events, and you may benefit from the experiences of other Camry owners who have solved similar issues.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Lots of good info here... So feel free to contribute any ideas you may have about this issue for a 2004 Toyota Camry.

If you can't DIY with help from the Toyota forums, it's probably time to get a new(er) vehicle.


if you have a lot of cassettes you may be able to retro fit a head unit, I'm not sure about that tho


I got two cds stuck in the (stock) NAV head unit on my FXT - getting a single din alpine put in on Friday (yes it has a CD)

 

[steve88]

Can I trust my low mileage vehicle to a dealer who sent me a free oil change? Since everyone here is talking about service writer as a commisioned sales people. Just worried that they might find some phantom repair that I dont need.

 

[Nunthewiser]

Just like there's no such thing as a free lunch, there's no such thing as a free oil change. They WILL find somethng. Every car needs something...it's going to be up to you to decide how important that thing they will suggest really is.

uh, when was the last time you flushed your brake fluid? Did you know that it is hydroscopic?

 

[Big_Hitter]

Can I trust my low mileage vehicle to a dealer who sent me a free oil change? Since everyone here is talking about service writer as a commisioned sales people. Just worried that they might find some phantom repair that I dont need.

if it's under the 3/36 comp warranty I wouldn't worry about it, just say no

 

[Walt34]

Just like there's no such thing as a free lunch, there's no such thing as a free oil change. They WILL find somethng. Every car needs something...it's going to be up to you to decide how important that thing they will suggest really is.

It will turn out to be something like the $59.95 special they're having this week on changing the air in the tires. You DO change the air yearly, don't you?

 

[aja8888]

It will turn out to be something like the $59.95 special they're having this week on changing the air in the tires. You DO change the air yearly, don't you?

They are pushing nitrogen tire fills. Most people don't know that air has ~79% nitrogen already.

 

[ERD50]

They are pushing nitrogen tire fills. Most people don't know that air has ~79% nitrogen already.

What is really funny to me is that one of the big reasons given is that nitrogen doesn't leak out as fast as 'air'. Well, if it is the other 20% is leaking out, and I top it off with 79% nitrogen, I now have an even higher % of nitrogen in the tire. Do it again, and you would be as close to pure nitrogen as what they sell (which I think is ~ 99%).

-ERD50

 

[Big_Hitter]

counter-rant - DW just took the FXT in to scoob dealer for a loose rv mirror


they fixed it for free and didn't upsell her

 

[rbmrtn]

Pretty good writeup about nitrogen on CarTalk Blog Post | What's the Deal With Nitrogen-Filled Tires? | Car Talk