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Old 05-24-2015, 08:23 PM   #41
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I brought my brand new 2014 Silverado into the Chevy dealership at 5,000 miles to get the free oil change. This is the first and last time I will bring this machine into the dealer. They forced me to wait 3hours for a mandatory safety recall and I left with what sounds like an exhaust leak after they mucked with my rear axle/transfer case. I thought about going back to complain but that's all it would be is just another complaint. I am thinking about bringing the truck to my old mechanic friend, but I'm hesitant I will come across as an impossible to please person.

All I know is when I brought the truck in for the oil change, it was whisper quiet and now it sounds like a dang exhaust leak every time one of the cylinders fires.
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Old 05-24-2015, 08:42 PM   #42
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I brought my brand new 2014 Silverado into the Chevy dealership at 5,000 miles to get the free oil change. This is the first and last time I will bring this machine into the dealer. They forced me to wait 3hours
Same here, except with a Toyota Tundra. Well over 3 hours to change the oil and rotate the tires (and that is with an appointment scheduled several days in advance). Never again. It's easier and a lot quicker to do it myself and I don't end up with new problems.
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:06 PM   #43
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Re brake flushes, I do this on all my old VWs and Benzes. I have a repurposed garden sprayer fit up with an ATE master cylinder cap on the hose end. I suck the reservoir dry with a turkey baster and pump and bleed the system with fresh DOT 4 fluid every few years. MB used to recommend this every 2 years. The old stuff sure looks a lot different than the new stuff.

I am sure the dealers have a much more sophistcated bit of equipment they need you to amortize.
The difference between the old and new fluid is enough proof for me to realize this needs to be done every couple of years,
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Old 05-24-2015, 10:49 PM   #44
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The difference between the old and new fluid is enough proof for me to realize this needs to be done every couple of years,
Out of curiosity I checked Honda's recommended brake fluid change interval. It is supposed to be changed every three years per Honda. Maintenance Minder | Maintenance Schedule | Honda Owners Site
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:07 PM   #45
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Out of curiosity I checked Honda's recommended brake fluid change interval. It is supposed to be changed every three years per Honda. Maintenance Minder | Maintenance Schedule | Honda Owners Site
VW goes with 2 years.
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Car Maintenance Rant, Part 2
Old 05-25-2015, 04:35 AM   #46
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Car Maintenance Rant, Part 2

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(bold mine)







Right, no laughing matter.



A relative was an aircraft mechanic, and he flushed the brake fluid of his cars, and recommended it. It's in some car manuals, and many mechanics will recc it. Brake fluid absorbs water - very bad thing for brakes. You might get rust, you might have the water turn to steam, and that means little/no brakes as the steam compresses unlike liquid.



Muffler bearing rotation - not so much



-ERD50

I dont dispute the facts but how is water getting into a closed brake fluid system? I flush the fluid when the pads / rotors are changed, ie when the system is opened up. Opening it up just for the sake of flushing is why I lol'd.

I dont disagree with doing it on old cars where seals have cracked and opened up the system to water intrusion, its just unheard of on modern cars with good seals IMO. I hope you are replacing all the seals too! Maybe its because I live in California, we dont have rust problems like back east driving in snow/salt.

If you are heating up the brakes enough to boil the fluid, thats driving like a Nascar driver.


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Old 05-25-2015, 06:36 AM   #47
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.............If you are heating up the brakes enough to boil the fluid, thats driving like a Nascar driver................
Or driving with a trailer through the montains. When that brake fluid turns to steam, the pedal goes to the floor.
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Old 05-25-2015, 06:45 AM   #48
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I dont dispute the facts but how is water getting into a closed brake fluid system?
I don't think any of them are sealed. Take alook at your M/C cap. Doesn't it have a tiny vent hole?
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Old 05-25-2015, 08:19 AM   #49
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Or driving with a trailer through the montains. When that brake fluid turns to steam, the pedal goes to the floor.
+1. On our mountain, with a 1500' drop over less than 3 miles, you can tell the residents from the resort guests by the smell of burning brake fluid, from those who don't know to down shift and save the brakes.
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Old 05-25-2015, 09:10 AM   #50
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Interesting item on the brake fluid change. I have owned cares for almost 45 years and have never done one or ever had a garage recommend one. And I generally keep my vehicles a long time (current fleet is an 05, 06 and 08).

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Old 05-25-2015, 09:23 AM   #51
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I dont dispute the facts but how is water getting into a closed brake fluid system? I flush the fluid when the pads / rotors are changed, ie when the system is opened up. Opening it up just for the sake of flushing is why I lol'd. ...
You're right, doing a flush when other service is performed might be all you need - brake pads are replaced fairly often (maybe not in a hybrid/EV?)

I'm not sure how water gets into the system, as others said, it might be open to adjust to pressure changes? I'd have to research that, but I tend to go by the owner's manual anyway, figuring they have done the research. Though looking around a bit, I was surprised at the different recs across different mfg. Are their systems that different? Their analysis, level of caution that different? I don't know.

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If you are heating up the brakes enough to boil the fluid, thats driving like a Nascar driver.
Not at all. Your brakes go way over boiling temps with routine driving - though some of that is dissipated before getting to the hydraulic fluid. If what you say was true, we'd probably just use radiator coolant in your brakes, and only NASCAR drivers would use a special oil.


Which brings up a question for the car guys/gals:

So why do we have special brake fluid? Why not just motor oil? And what is it about using a fluid that is hygroscopic? What is so special about the needs of brake fluid that it seems the only thing that works is something with the really bad property of absorbing water? No alternatives? Why?

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Old 05-25-2015, 10:22 AM   #52
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Which brings up a question for the car guys/gals:

So why do we have special brake fluid? Why not just motor oil? And what is it about using a fluid that is hygroscopic? What is so special about the needs of brake fluid that it seems the only thing that works is something with the really bad property of absorbing water? No alternatives? Why?

-ERD50
Brake systems see very high pressure and lots of heat. Brake fluid is hydraulic fluid that is similar to what's used in mechanical systems (pumps, cylinders, hydraulic motors, etc). DOT rating is necessary for safety. Here's a good wirtie up:

Brake fluid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Motor oil is a lubricating fluid and has many different properties for it's application.
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Old 05-25-2015, 11:04 AM   #53
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Brake systems see very high pressure and lots of heat. Brake fluid is hydraulic fluid that is similar to what's used in mechanical systems (pumps, cylinders, hydraulic motors, etc). DOT rating is necessary for safety. Here's a good wirtie up:

Brake fluid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Motor oil is a lubricating fluid and has many different properties for it's application.
Thanks, very interesting. So being hygroscopic is bad, but not being hygroscopic can be worse!

Hygroscopic fluid absorbs the water, but keeps it in suspension, so it isn't a problem in small amounts. But if it isn't hygroscopic, it separates, and can pool and freeze or the higher concentrations at that point cause other problems.

-ERD50
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Old 05-25-2015, 11:09 AM   #54
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I brought my brand new 2014 Silverado into the Chevy dealership at 5,000 miles to get the free oil change. This is the first and last time I will bring this machine into the dealer. They forced me to wait 3hours for a mandatory safety recall and I left with what sounds like an exhaust leak after they mucked with my rear axle/transfer case. I thought about going back to complain but that's all it would be is just another complaint. I am thinking about bringing the truck to my old mechanic friend, but I'm hesitant I will come across as an impossible to please person.

All I know is when I brought the truck in for the oil change, it was whisper quiet and now it sounds like a dang exhaust leak every time one of the cylinders fires.
You should complain and bring it back for them to correct, it's under warranty so any issues should be covered.

I just brought my new Sienna in for its 5K tire rotation, and they found leaking oil, had to drop the engine to fix it. (they claim).
I do see the oil is changed, and a wire on the engine was not put back in its clip, so maybe they did some work.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed as anytime you drop an engine, there are so many things disconnected and reconnected there is the chance for something to be not quite right and fail later.

Warranty covered it and the 2 day car rental.
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:42 PM   #55
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Hygroscopic - cool I learned a new word and definition today!
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:18 PM   #56
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I don't think any of them are sealed. Take alook at your M/C cap. Doesn't it have a tiny vent hole?

Sure it does, but there is also a rubber diaphram on the underside to keep moisture out. The hole allows the diaphram to adjust to different atmospheric pressure and lower as the brakes wear and fluid level drops. I check fluid level in the master cylinder and top up as part of normal under the hood maintenance checks.

In old cars, pre 1950s maybe there wasnt a diaphram and the hole did let in moisture, even then the recommendation was changing fluid every couple of years unless you live in a rain forest climate.

I'm a docent at an auto museum so I know a little about old cars.

The only place I can think of concern in modern cars are the seals on the disc caliper piston, driving in the rain or through water maybe force it in around the seal. That is one seal I check and lubricate or replace when doing a brake job, the rubber can dry out and crack.

Ive never had brake problems in modern cars, but I had a 59 Chevy Apache that leaked fluid like a sieve until I rebuilt the brake pistons, it was easy to see the fluid leaking in the brake drums.


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Old 05-26-2015, 06:24 PM   #57
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Sure it does, but there is also a rubber diaphram on the underside to keep moisture out. The hole allows the diaphram to adjust to different atmospheric pressure and lower as the brakes wear and fluid level drops. I check fluid level in the master cylinder and top up as part of normal under the hood maintenance checks.

In old cars, pre 1950s maybe there wasnt a diaphram and the hole did let in moisture, even then the recommendation was changing fluid every couple of years unless you live in a rain forest climate.

I'm a docent at an auto museum so I know a little about old cars.

The only place I can think of concern in modern cars are the seals on the disc caliper piston, driving in the rain or through water maybe force it in around the seal. That is one seal I check and lubricate or replace when doing a brake job, the rubber can dry out and crack.

Ive never had brake problems in modern cars, but I had a 59 Chevy Apache that leaked fluid like a sieve until I rebuilt the brake pistons, it was easy to see the fluid leaking in the brake drums.


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When I did a brake job on my old 1995 Chevy 1500 truck, I rebuilt the calipers (hone cylinders, new seals). I remember finding rust and pitting in the caliper cylinder bores. Minor, though. The brake fluid was never changed prior to the brake job, probably 5 years in.
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Old 05-26-2015, 07:35 PM   #58
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If you have manual transmission, don't forget the clutch hydraulics - master and slave cylinders are subject to the same corrosion and they are often neglected.
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Old 05-26-2015, 07:42 PM   #59
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I'm a docent at an auto museum so I know a little about old cars.
Which one? I love old-car museums.
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Old 05-26-2015, 08:02 PM   #60
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Service writers are paid on commission, so what do you think, they will sell as much service as they can, necessary or not.
I used to think Finance Managers/Business Managers were the most underhanded people in a car dealership.

Service Writers are not your friend. They are very highly paid commission salesmen. Their job is selling $1000 brake jobs to little old ladies that ought to be paying $300. And they are totally without consciences.
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