collect unemployment????

[FUEGO]

In my state, I would apply and they would count any severance or vacation time payout as basically continued pay from the company. Whether it was lump sum or a recurring payment. I actually applied for unemployment, and they didn't process mine correctly, so I started getting UI payments after 1 week of unemployment even though I had 6 weeks of vacation payout in my final check. My coworker (who was fired at the same time as me) was in the same situation, and they deemed him ineligible to collect for 6 weeks due to the vacation payout.

 

[Walt34]

In my state, I would apply and they would count any severance or vacation time payout as basically continued pay from the company.

This is a good example of how it varies from state to state. In WV the vacation payout was not considered since that was earned while still employed even though the money was paid after my position was terminated.

That's why it is best to go ahead and apply and not listen to anyone else. The rules are all over the map and you won't know until you apply.

 

[FUEGO]

This is a good example of how it varies from state to state. In WV the vacation payout was not considered since that was earned while still employed even though the money was paid after my position was terminated.

That's why it is best to go ahead and apply and not listen to anyone else. The rules are all over the map and you won't know until you apply.

Yeah, the rules in NC are that your UI checks are postponed one week for each week of vacation pay out, or each week of severance pay. Like if you received $4000 severance and you used to make $1000/wk, that means you can't collect UI until after 5 weeks (1 week wait is the default plus 4 weeks of "termination pay" or whatever they call it).

Good advice though - just apply, be honest on the application and be honest when they call you for your initial determination of eligibility.

 

[Texconsin]

+1 Exactly! I'm tired of the TV pundits who call it 'welfare'. We PAID for this!

Absolutely right!

And get off my lawn!

 

[Texas Proud]

Some firms in the E&C business have "company convenience leave." You're basically laid off but if you have PTO you can take it. When the PTO is gone, you continue to get benefits but you have to physically pay your share of any costs. When on this type of leave, you aren't eligible for UEI. Companies will only typically do this for a couple of months and then only when they expect/hope to bring you back to the regular payroll.

I've known people to refuse "company convenience leave" to get the unemployment. If you hope to continue working, a good half of any UE would go towards your COBRA costs unless your spouse is insured. It also probably puts you at the end of the line if people start getting called back.

Not sure what the difference is.... when I was let go by mega I received 7 or so months of severance pay.... it was just like my old paycheck.... they took out my contribution for insurance and IIRC for the 401(k)... I cannot remember if they mentioned UI or not... but I did apply and answered all questions correctly and received it...

The only time that was excluded was the weeks that was a notice requirement which they did not require me to come to work... I got 8 weeks... had to work 4 and could stay home the next 4... after that I qualified...

 

[Texas Proud]

This is a good example of how it varies from state to state. In WV the vacation payout was not considered since that was earned while still employed even though the money was paid after my position was terminated.

That's why it is best to go ahead and apply and not listen to anyone else. The rules are all over the map and you won't know until you apply.

I think in Texas it is considered since that is one of the questions they ask...

 

[Options]

HR rep was a good person, as they didn't have to tell you to apply. Technically, at least in California, you can only collect if you lose a job through "no fault of your own", which excludes resigining. I tell everyone to apply, whether they've resigned or not. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. For you to not get the benefits, the company has to challenge the application. I tell people when they ask for the reason for leaving the organization, to state "separation" with no further explanation. This puts the onus on the employer to challenge.

Also, after resignation, if you work even a week on a temp job and it ends, you can apply for unemployment. The unemployment will come from the account of the employer you resigned from.

 

[photoguy]

I collected UE a while back. All you have to do is put in a resume on line, and watch it disappear. Maybe 3-4 a month. No one ever audit any places. It's a pretty good gig if you can get it.

The OP had asked about the ethics of obtaining UE and stated that he/she had no intention of returning to work. If this is indeed true, then the OP should not obtain UE since he/she would fail the willingness to work requirement.

California requires one to certify that they meet the eligibility requirements (probably other states require something similar). If the OP were to certify they meet the requirements for UE but really had no intention of returning to work -- that would be an intentional misrepresentation (i.e. fraud) and in my opinion would not be ethical.

Now I'm sure many people get UE and certify even though they do not intend to work. It would probably be nearly impossible to prove that a person was just going through the motions solely to get the UE checks. So I don't think there's any risk but I see this as a separate issue from whether it is right or not for the OP to apply for UE.

UE is no different than SS. It's an insurance you pay into, and collect when you need it. The employer pays 100% of the premium, much like SS where the employer pays 50%.

I don't see them as the same as UE has a different set of eligibility requirements.

 

[youbet]

If the HR rep mentioned UI then they are expecting you will apply and it shouldn't be a problem. As long as you are actively seeking work your claim is valid. Some states require a declaration that you are actively seeking work.

As far as severance preventing UI, it depends on the laws in your state. You could apply and see what happens.

This is how it works in Illinois and how it worked for me. Getting a severance was OK but you do have to be actively looking for work and keep records to prove it.

 

[freebird5825]

I say go for it.

Be honest throughout the application process, follow the rules to the letter, see what happens.

 

[RunningBum]

I never filed for unemployment insurance when I got let go with a separation package.

Employers pay for the insurance, not employees, so I never felt like this was something I paid into all these years. Maybe I would've gotten higher wages had my employers not paid this insurance, maybe not, but it is not something workers directly paid for.

Social security is something I did pay into, and as I see it, it is set up as a payment for those in later years to help with expenses. When I get into those later years it will apply to me and I will take the benefit, just like taking the small pension I got from one of my jobs.

Unemployment insurance is set up to provide money to those out of a job while they are looking for another job. Since I wasn't looking for another job I didn't feel like this applied to me, so I didn't try to take the benefit. It just didn't feel right to me to apply.

If others in a similar position do differently, that doesn't really bother me. Maybe some planned/needed to work another year so collecting a year of benefits gets them through that time. Not for me to judge.

 

[unclemick]

I would apply for UE for sure.

Worst case, they deny your claim. It is not illegal to apply, it is illegal to get benefits under false pretenses. Answer the questions honestly, and get what you have coming. After all, UE is an insurance, not a hand out.

Layoff - 16 wks severance. Then unemployment the max ?23 wks. In my case I ended up as a temp after a year. Could not refuse the $ as a jobshopper.

Which also cured of any thoughts of work.

heh heh heh - as I have said before it took a while to make the mental shift from 'unemployed slacker' to 'high class ER'. I think I even gave up the clothesline and got a dryer for dryer sheets.

 

[Texas Proud]

I never filed for unemployment insurance when I got let go with a separation package.

Employers pay for the insurance, not employees, so I never felt like this was something I paid into all these years. Maybe I would've gotten higher wages had my employers not paid this insurance, maybe not, but it is not something workers directly paid for.

Social security is something I did pay into, and as I see it, it is set up as a payment for those in later years to help with expenses. When I get into those later years it will apply to me and I will take the benefit, just like taking the small pension I got from one of my jobs.

Unemployment insurance is set up to provide money to those out of a job while they are looking for another job. Since I wasn't looking for another job I didn't feel like this applied to me, so I didn't try to take the benefit. It just didn't feel right to me to apply.

If others in a similar position do differently, that doesn't really bother me. Maybe some planned/needed to work another year so collecting a year of benefits gets them through that time. Not for me to judge.

The problem with this thinking is that the company paid into UI for the benefit of the employee... it is not some general tax that can be used for anything.... it can only be used for UI....

You only 'pay' half of SS... so in your thinking we could cut your benefit in half and you would be OK with that I think not...

The company pays for a lot of things where you get the benefit.... health, dental, life, disability etc. etc... would you refuse getting disability pay if you qualified for it just because the company paid for it Again, I think not...

 

[FUEGO]

I never filed for unemployment insurance when I got let go with a separation package.

/snip

Unemployment insurance is set up to provide money to those out of a job while they are looking for another job. Since I wasn't looking for another job I didn't feel like this applied to me, so I didn't try to take the benefit. It just didn't feel right to me to apply.

You wouldn't be eligible for unemployment because you weren't actively looking for work. You have to certify each week that you are looking for work.

In my case, I was actually looking for work, and would have taken a job if the perfect one landed in my lap. I actually went to one job interview that, if offered the job, I would have taken. It just wasn't meant to be.

 

[Rustward]

You asked what we would do in similar situations. Because you have no intention of pursuing full time employment, technically, you will not be eligible for a benefit. That's it. Now you can get around that and collect a benefit, but you have to decide if that is ethical or not.

I was RIFd in 2001. Nice severance package. HR told me I would be eligible for unemployment. I took six weeks off then went to an outplacement outfit that was part of the separation benefits and they encouraged me to apply, which I did. Before I could collect anything, I started a contract job at a healthy rate, so I never collected.

RIFd again in '08. Owner offered me some cash contingent on me not applying for unemployment. He was positioning to sell out and wanted to keep things clean. We were already FI and RE was possible but I wasn't sure I could cope with the lifestyle change. I took the cash and honored my agreement to not apply, and eased toward RE. A deal is a deal. . . . and I adjusted just fine.

My suggestion is like some of the others: Go ahead and apply, but understand and follow the rules. If you qualify for a benefit, take it, but if you don't qualify, don't take it.

 

[Rustic23]

I was laid off after a bank merger. They gave ma a package that paid my full salary for almost another year. They informed me I would also be eligible for unemployment.

I did not take it!
A. I was getting paid over $100,000 a year to do nothing
B. I moved from Ca. to Tx and my COL went down a lot!
C. I didn't want to put up with the hassel
D. I would feel like a complete hypocrite if I took a government hand out when I didn't need it, and strongly oppose most.

 

[Al in Ohio]

The problem with this thinking is that the company paid into UI for the benefit of the employee... it is not some general tax that can be used for anything.... it can only be used for UI....

You only 'pay' half of SS... so in your thinking we could cut your benefit in half and you would be OK with that I think not...

The company pays for a lot of things where you get the benefit.... health, dental, life, disability etc. etc... would you refuse getting disability pay if you qualified for it just because the company paid for it Again, I think not...

Not so. Companies don't pay half. They pay a portion , but the individual pays the bulk of it now. As a self employed sole proprietor doing my taxes I discovered that. My payments for both shares did not double. It was more, but certainly not double.

I would not confuse insurance for Unemployment as a hedge against a hardship you hope never occurs with social security which is a scheduled planned for annuity. Totally different animals in my book.


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[Texas Proud]

Not so. Companies don't pay half. They pay a portion , but the individual pays the bulk of it now. As a self employed sole proprietor doing my taxes I discovered that. My payments for both shares did not double. It was more, but certainly not double.

I would not confuse insurance for Unemployment as a hedge against a hardship you hope never occurs with social security which is a scheduled planned for annuity. Totally different animals in my book.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

Companies do pay the same amount into SS as the employee...

From SS website....

Currently, you and your employer each pay a
6.2 percent Social Security tax on up to $117,000
of your earnings and a 1.45 percent Medicare tax
on all earnings. If you are self-employed, you pay
the combined employee and employer amount,
which is a 12.4 percent Social Security tax on up
to $117,000 of your net earnings and a 2.9 percent
Medicare tax on your entire net earnings. If
you have earned income of more than $200,000
($250,000 for married couples filing jointly), you
must pay 0.9 percent more in Medicare taxes.


​

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10022.pdf

My point was about in reference to who was paying... the person said he did not pay, so did not feel like he should receive the benefits. I showed other things that were paid by the company and asked if he would take them if he qualified. Sure, they are not the same... but for most are paid for by the company...

 

[Senator]

In the days when i was paying myself a salary, I was required to pay a state UE tax, and a Federal FUTA tax. The state portion was like 2.1% and the FUTA was .45%, if my memory is correct. The State determined a percentage that was based on experience rate, and it also had a first year minimum premium. The future years premium could be higher or lower based on your claims.

Since I was a owner of more than 5% of the company, I could never collect UE from my own account.

At another business I owned, I had employees, they could collect UE. If they collected, it was 'deducted' from our account, and that amount would need to be recaptured over the next few years. So, the business would actually pay 100% of any UE that was paid out, unless they went out of business. I think the highest premium could be just over 10%. Luckily, we never had a claim.

Even if you do not like a certain program, whatever it is, never criticize the person for taking advantage of it. Criticize the program instead.

The laws are designed that way. For those that can figure it out, it is there for them. For those that choose not to take advantage of them, that's OK too. For those that cannot figure it out, there are programs to help them figure it out.

There was a time just a few years ago a person could get up to 104 week of UE. That would be perfect for me... And of course, I would be looking extra hard for work.

 

[heeyy_joe]

I used to think that way.

Over the past several years, I've moved into a "...been payin' for all this stuff for 50 years...where's mine" mindset.

Oh, if you want to go ahead as it is insurance that was paid for. BUT...it is a giant pain in the arse and taxable to boot. So again, avoid it if you can, if not get in line bud.

 

[dallas27]

Not so. Companies don't pay half. They pay a portion , but the individual pays the bulk of it now. As a self employed sole proprietor doing my taxes I discovered that. My payments for both shares did not double. It was more, but certainly not double.

I would not confuse insurance for Unemployment as a hedge against a hardship you hope never occurs with social security which is a scheduled planned for annuity. Totally different animals in my book.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

Then let me warn you. The irs is coming because you aren't paying taxes correctly.


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[ERD50]

Not so. Companies don't pay half. They pay a portion , but the individual pays the bulk of it now. As a self employed sole proprietor doing my taxes I discovered that. My payments for both shares did not double. It was more, but certainly not double.

I would not confuse insurance for Unemployment as a hedge against a hardship you hope never occurs with social security which is a scheduled planned for annuity. Totally different animals in my book.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

Then let me warn you. The irs is coming because you aren't paying taxes correctly.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

Yep - I always wonder what is going on when a poster claims something as fact, supposedly from direct, personal experience. Are they just confused/mistaken? Or are they really doing this the wrong way, which as you point out, has some serious implications.

I wonder how much back pay 'Al in Ohio' owes the IRS? Can we get in on the 'finders fee'?

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

Then let me warn you. The irs is coming because you aren't paying taxes correctly.


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Yep - I always wonder what is going on when a poster claims something as fact, supposedly from direct, personal experience. Are they just confused/mistaken? Or are they really doing this the wrong way, which as you point out, has some serious implications.

I wonder how much back pay 'Al in Ohio' owes the IRS? Can we get in on the 'finders fee'?

-ERD50

Remember... he could be talking about the time when there was a tax holiday for SS... IIRC it was 2% for a few years...

Hopefully he has adjusted to the correct amount now...

 

[mickeyd]

I was laid off from a j*b several years ago and received 52 week severance package. I also applied for UC and got the max on that also for about 26 weeks. I considered it just another company benefit.

 

[Al in Ohio]

I stated for self proprietors it's close, but there are other factors your misunderstanding that effect the overall yearly payments. I used Turbotax back then.