Couple retires in Spain and lives comfortably on $2000 per month.

[scottpush]

If they were here, on $2K a month, they would get free healthcare in MN and many other states.

That's a good point although the idea that healthcare prices would be reasonable no matter if you go over the ACA subsidy cliff is pretty enticing. It's a real headache for me here trying not to go over that cliff.

 

[jim584672]

That's a good point although the idea that healthcare prices would be reasonable no matter if you go over the ACA subsidy cliff is pretty enticing. It's a real headache for me here trying not to go over that cliff.

In NY a family of 2 can make up to $33,000 and only pay $40 a month, with no age rating. The US can be very reasonable, and we don't pay double for gas due to VAT.

 

[scottpush]

It can be reasonable if you don't make much $$. I agree with that. If you make medium amount of $$ you'll be paying a ton in healthcare premiums.

 

[jim584672]

It can be reasonable if you don't make much $$. I agree with that. If you make medium amount of $$ you'll be paying a ton in healthcare premiums.

It seems much easier to control your income and possibly moves states than to move to a different country and deal with their immigration and taxation rules, on top of US taxes. If you can't control your income you probably have a ton of money and can afford to pay.

 

[Buckeye]

I live in the Seattle area and have for 67 years. The numbers quoted above are not even close to being accurate unless your parents are paying your way. Not even close.

The person who posted about reasonable housing costs in Seattle added another post explaining they lived 'in the mountains." I was born and raised in Seattle but housing costs have gotten so crazy it's really not viable to go back to anywhere near where I grew up (Northgate).

 

[scottpush]

It seems much easier to control your income and possibly moves states than to move to a different country and deal with their immigration and taxation rules, on top of US taxes. If you can't control your income you probably have a ton of money and can afford to pay.

If you consider making over $48k a ton of money than you're right. I don't think that's much. As you said depends on where you live.

 

[brett]

Our bottom line is that IF you ignored (or did not have) any family tie issues, the North America would not be a particularly special place in which to retire.

It would simply be one of a number of very good retirement areas each having their own pros and cons based on ones personal preferences.

 

[Fermion]

And WHY would you want to live in any of those very depressed towns?

You do have a point. Look at some of the places:

 

[Fermion]

Oh wait, those are pictures of Seattle. Here is the area around where I live:

 

[explanade]

Only visited Prague and Vienna, which may or may not be considered Eastern Europe.

May not have Russian winters but I would assume people will pay more for Spain and Portugal for the sun and the sea.

Not to pay taxes there certainly.

Easier for U.K. citizens until Brexit but not easier for US students who must pay US taxes on top of any taxes they pay to the countries where they live.

 

[tsturbo]

I was mainly talking about Aberdeen, Ocean Shores, Westport and Forks, old depressed logging towns. The pics above is what Seattle and its massive tent cities look like with garbage everywhere. Funny how the Seattle City Council wants more homeless to keep coming, it is kind of like job security for them.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I looked at their budget and their activities and they are spending quite a bit more than we do in the USA at near the same ages.

Their apartment: $665
Our apartment: $525

Their electricity: $82
Our electricity: $57

Their water: $33
Our water: $0

Their phone: $44
Our phone: $40 (Visible wireless cell with unlimited internet and tethering)

Their internet: $33
Our internet: $0 (included in cell phone plan)

Their health insurance: $130
Our health insurance: $89 ($910 subsidy for silver plan with cost sharing and max $250 per year oop)

Their food: $490
Our food: about the same.

We have other expenses by choice, like a car but it is not needed where we live. There is a great bus system and the library is across the street, city hall is 3 blocks away, Safeway is 5 blocks away, Wal-Mart is about 1 mile away. Costco is 60 miles away, quite a drive, but how close do they live to Costco?

I mean if you want to be in Spain, be in Spain, but you can live cheaper in the USA with good healthcare.

Housing is expensive in the Bay Area for most renters or more recent home purchasers, but we bought a long time ago so our housing costs are low, our food bill this month will be $318 for two, electricity and gas around $80, health insurance premiums $2, cell phone bill for two lines $33. We need to renegotiate our Internet bill again but plans here start around $29 and we usually pay around $70 with some premium channels. Our water bill is high in the summer because we have a yard with a lot of plants and trees, but it it is low in winter and wouldn't be much if we lived in an apartment or will likely be fairly low we when finish xeriscaping the yard.

If we moved to Northern California along the coast the housing prices would be much cheaper and it is still pretty mild weather there with lovely scenery and parks. With the ACA and reasonable health care costs these days, I tend to agree with you that you can live in the U.S. pretty cheap if you stay outside the HCOL cities. Or cheap in the HCOL cities if you don't have a big mortgage or high rent.

Some of the local senior clubs have free lunches for seniors, inexpensive door to door bus service, discounted farmer's market day, free Uber(!), and all sorts of activities and services free or a nominal costs. Seniors can get deeply discounted train and bus passes. The libraries have free passes to all sorts of cultural attractions. Some have 3D printers. Because there are so many rich people in the area one could furnish a house quite nicely with appliances just from the Freecycle type sites.

 

[bigreader]

Double taxation between Spain and the US

agreed! ... how are people getting a visa (a challenge) paying US "and" Spain taxes ? I see numerous articles on the Visa piece but as a US Citizen, that will make more than $25k/year... how are people dealing with the EU/Spain taxes? Do people just travel frequently to avoid the residency piece that will save them from the high Spain income taxes?

In a lot of countries, including Spain, there is a tax treaty with the US to avoid double taxation. In theory, you just pay tax to the country where you permanantly reside. In my experience, it's a bit messy in practice but works.
As far as I know, the EU has no power to tax the residents of member states.
It might be that taxes for a resident in Spain are higher than taxes for a resident in a given state in the US. For example, I think Spain taxes wealth. But then it becomes an issue of what it costs and whether it is worth it to you given what you get for it.


br

 

[bigreader]

Citizenship in Hungary

I know people get tired of me saying it but Eastern Europe is probably a better deal than Spain. [snip]I will become a citizen in April [snip]

Thanks for your post. Can you tell us a bit more about how to get Hungarian citizenship?


br

 

[explanade]

In a lot of countries, including Spain, there is a tax treaty with the US to avoid double taxation. In theory, you just pay tax to the country where you permanantly reside. In my experience, it's a bit messy in practice but works.
As far as I know, the EU has no power to tax the residents of member states.
It might be that taxes for a resident in Spain are higher than taxes for a resident in a given state in the US. For example, I think Spain taxes wealth. But then it becomes an issue of what it costs and whether it is worth it to you given what you get for it.


br

I think it's like the first $100k or something like that right?

Wealth taxes would be bad depending on the level where it's imposed, for people with a lot of retirement assets.

 

[bigreader]

I think it's like the first $100k or something like that right?

Wealth taxes would be bad depending on the level where it's imposed, for people with a lot of retirement assets.

I think that the rough $100k is the amount of the Foreign Earned Income that a US permanent resident can exclude from taxation. I suspect that this wouldn't be much help to a retiree living on pensions The tax treaty more relates to a system of foreign tax credits that, as far as I know, has no limit.

American Citizens Abroad has some great general information, although it is more directed at folks working in a foreign country.
https://www.americansabroad.org/us-taxes-abroad-for-dummies-update/

I don't understand what's included or excluded for a wealth tax but a lot of places in the EU and Switzerland have them. There can also be high taxes on unearned income. I don't know if these taxes are truly significant as applied, but certainly worth running down before making a decision to move.

br

 

[Lstansbury]

Just fyi re: legalities of buying prescription drugs from other countries

My wife requires a drug named Breo by Glaxo for her COPD. Drug plans show this drug's retail cost of ~$20,000/month. It's a "Tier III" drug under Medicare Part D and is not discounted very much. According to Texas Part D plans, we will be paying over $1,100/month (average) for that drug. Last year we paid about 1/4th of that cost.

Remember, when our illustrious government was looking out for us citizen's best interests.... but, for some reason, they did not negotiate drug pricing with drug companies when Medicare was started. In essence, doctors and hospitals have negotiated rates, but not drug companies.

It is still illegal for Medicare to negotiate drug pricing wth drug companies. And Medicare is the biggest buyer of drugs.

It is also illegal for us, as U.S. citizens, to obtain these drugs over the internet. It is also still illegal to buy pharma from Mexico and carry it back to the U.S. It seems that you can travel to brick and mortar Canadian pharamcies for some drugs and not be breaking U.S. laws.

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-cent...-person-importation-prescription-drugs-canada

 

[tulak]

Central Europe is a great place to live. High quality of life. The only downside compared to Spain/Portugal might be the weather.

I came back from there last month and was surprised at how many ex-pats were living in the smaller city where my family comes from. Population around 100k. I’d say this happened over the last decade or so, before then, there weren’t nearly that many foreigners living there.

I’d move there in a heartbeat if my kids weren’t in the US. Instead, I deal with HCOL. Maybe when my kids are older.