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Feeling some Guilt and Regret over College
Old 10-11-2016, 09:38 AM   #1
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Feeling some Guilt and Regret over College

I ER'd a little over 3 years ago with 3 children, the oldest which was about to start HS. They are now in 8th, 9th, and 12th grade and they are all doing very well academically. We always imparted on our children that they would be going to college and now we are stepping on that bridge and are about to begin this journey for our oldest.

I recently completed the FAFSA and our EFC is a little over 37K (ouch). This is great, but my ER plan only allotted for 20K/child/year leaving a 17K shortfall between what we can pay and any potential financial aid. I thought 20K was gracious and would be enough. Fast forward three years and I realize I may have been a little too optimistic in my assumptions. Even our second-tier state university has a 27K cost of attendance so we would be full pay.

We recently informed DD how much we could contribute and that we would not take out any Parent Plus loans in our name. This means she will have to take loans and work during her college career to make it affordable. I know this is the typical experience today, but here is where the guilt and regret are creeping in to my psyche. Guilt that I should get a job so she doesn't have to take loans and restrict the schools she can consider; and regret that I left a great career which would make college costs a mute point.

My other struggle is with college costs in general. A couple of the colleges she would like to attend have sticker prices of 60K plus. One is 66K for an Art and Design school. It may be the number one rated, but still. 66K really! :face palm: I understand it's flooded with mostly very well to do kids (think Saudi prince) that have lots of extra spending money. My kid would not fit in very well.

We'll get through this, but right now it's a pretty low point in my ER journey. This may be a word of caution for those in a similar situation and thinking of ER.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:49 AM   #2
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NanoSour, while our children's college days ended in 2012, I understand your pain. However, just because your EFC is 37K doesn't mean the college will cost you that much. We were in a similar situation but it turned out that the actual cost ended up being less we projected.

Additionally, schools that were more expensive than State Universities tended to offer "money" under the scholarship guise that offset much of the difference.

Wait until your DD makes a choice and see what the schools actually cost to attend and what, if any, they are willing to do to help out with costs.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:57 AM   #3
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Just because one is in college, doesn't mean they can't earn money to help. I financed my first 3 years of college (granted, living at home) by working my @$$ off all summer.

Makes one appreciate it more, and places value on doing well.

Also, there is big money to be saved by going to a community college and getting all of the BS courses out of the way for a year or two, as long as you insure/verify with both institutions ahead of time they will all transfer 1:1. There are side benefits to this as well with regards to easing into college life, study habits, etc.
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:14 AM   #4
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The Cost of College bears no relation to the Cost of anything in the Real World. In our experience, the Finance Depts in any College that we visited were so far out of touch with reality, that they may as well been denominated in Drachmas or Piasters. Every year they dole out generous raises to all University staff -- not just to the Professors but everybody on the payroll all the way down to the lunch room soup lady. The Cost is passed on directly to the Students (and by extension, the Parents).
Coming up short ? Take out more Student Loans. Never mind that these Loans have some crazy interest rates or that they may never be repaid during the Student's Lifetime. The Finance Dept has no other solution to offer you.

Filling out FAFSA is a colossal waste of time. Unless the family is living in a tent under the Freeway.....you are making too much money to qualify for any Grants.

We started saving for our Daughter's College the year she was born. She got some Scholarship money, but most of the cost came from the BOMD (Bank of Mom & Dad). To her credit, she graduated a semester early, saving us significant dollars. And she got a good job 6 months before her classmates got their Diplomas. That job put her through a Master's Degree program and she now has an MBA.

I know this is small consolation to you and your 3 kids. At $30K per each....you're looking at a hefty tab there. I hope the kids can get some academic scholarship money. Just make sure they choose a Major that has some job opportunities after graduation. It'd be a damn shame to rack up $100K in student debt for naught.
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:18 AM   #5
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FiveDriver, I agree with your thoughts. A FAFSA is required however for their daughter to get a Stafford Loan unless the rules have changed recently.
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:31 AM   #6
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The Cost of College bears no relation to the Cost of anything in the Real World. In our experience, the Finance Depts in any College that we visited were so far out of touch with reality, that they may as well been denominated in Drachmas or Piasters. Every year they dole out generous raises to all University staff -- not just to the Professors but everybody on the payroll all the way down to the lunch room soup lady. The Cost is passed on directly to the Students (and by extension, the Parents).
Coming up short ? Take out more Student Loans. Never mind that these Loans have some crazy interest rates or that they may never be repaid during the Student's Lifetime. The Finance Dept has no other solution to offer you.

Filling out FAFSA is a colossal waste of time. Unless the family is living in a tent under the Freeway.....you are making too much money to qualify for any Grants.

We started saving for our Daughter's College the year she was born. She got some Scholarship money, but most of the cost came from the BOMD (Bank of Mom & Dad). To her credit, she graduated a semester early, saving us significant dollars. And she got a good job 6 months before her classmates got their Diplomas. That job put her through a Master's Degree program and she now has an MBA.

I know this is small consolation to you and your 3 kids. At $30K per each....you're looking at a hefty tab there. I hope the kids can get some academic scholarship money. Just make sure they choose a Major that has some job opportunities after graduation. It'd be a damn shame to rack up $100K in student debt for naught.
This is sooo important. A cost benefit analysis should be a required part of the college application process...

You're planning on major XYZ that has a graduate average salary of $15k/year at a school that costs $40k/year... you can expect to finish paying for your education by the time you've turned 154, if you avoid vacations, children, steak, etc in the meantime. Are you sure you wish to continue??

You're planning on major ABC that has a graduate average salary of $80k/year at a school that costs $20k/year.. you can expect to finish paying for your education by the time you turn 28, if you prioritize paying down debt during your first few years working. Are you ready to continue?
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:32 AM   #7
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T Just make sure they choose a Major that has some job opportunities after graduation. It'd be a damn shame to rack up $100K in student debt for naught.
That's another issue on this journey. Of course she wants to major in Art, but I've worked on her enough that her current planned major is Landscape Architecture. I use the terms current and planned because her stated major is definitely in flux.

So I looked up Landscape Architecture and found a young lady that graduated in 2009 from an exclusive private college on the east coast. Continued on for her Master's at a flagship state university and then got a job trimming trees for a parks department in a major city. The exact same job my nephew got right out of HS. That was discouraging and I've yet to show DD this anecdotal outcome.

I hate to say that if my first was a son, I would be much harder on him to pursue a major with a decent ROI. However, due to chivalry, sexism, or whatever you want to call it, I'm having a more difficult time being brutally honest with how I feel about the whole situation. Ridiculous, I know.
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:34 AM   #8
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Also, there is big money to be saved by going to a community college and getting all of the BS courses out of the way for a year or two, as long as you insure/verify with both institutions ahead of time they will all transfer 1:1. There are side benefits to this as well with regards to easing into college life, study habits, etc.
+1

Community colleges are one of the best tools out there for substantially reducing college expenses.

#1 grandson came out of HS with ~30 hours of college credit and is spending a year living at home, working part time and attending a CC. Next fall he will transfer and, between the 529 plan we set up for him 18 years ago and the balance from his parents, he should graduate debt free.

His two younger brothers are expected to be on the same plan...
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by NanoSour View Post
I ER'd a little over 3 years ago with 3 children, the oldest which was about to start HS. They are now in 8th, 9th, and 12th grade and they are all doing very well academically. We always imparted on our children that they would be going to college and now we are stepping on that bridge and are about to begin this journey for our oldest.

I recently completed the FAFSA and our EFC is a little over 37K (ouch). This is great, but my ER plan only allotted for 20K/child/year leaving a 17K shortfall between what we can pay and any potential financial aid. I thought 20K was gracious and would be enough. Fast forward three years and I realize I may have been a little too optimistic in my assumptions. Even our second-tier state university has a 27K cost of attendance so we would be full pay.

We recently informed DD how much we could contribute and that we would not take out any Parent Plus loans in our name. This means she will have to take loans and work during her college career to make it affordable. I know this is the typical experience today, but here is where the guilt and regret are creeping in to my psyche. Guilt that I should get a job so she doesn't have to take loans and restrict the schools she can consider; and regret that I left a great career which would make college costs a mute point.

My other struggle is with college costs in general. A couple of the colleges she would like to attend have sticker prices of 60K plus. One is 66K for an Art and Design school. It may be the number one rated, but still. 66K really! :face palm: I understand it's flooded with mostly very well to do kids (think Saudi prince) that have lots of extra spending money. My kid would not fit in very well.

We'll get through this, but right now it's a pretty low point in my ER journey. This may be a word of caution for those in a similar situation and thinking of ER.
You don't have to be ER'd to have this issue, to some degree all parents face something like this. The question is, does she learn life's lessons with her money (in the form of large loans) or your money? I feel that no matter how much money you have, all young adults (can you call a HS senior a young adult) need to learn the lesson on their own or it doesn't stick.

Since I think you are still heavily into the parenting stage, don't pull any punches, lay out your opinions and then step back.

I have a nephew who is a regular architect and after over 10 years says it's still a brutal field to work in.
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:59 AM   #10
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Nano, have you asked your DD how SHE is going to pay for college? I realize that you told your kids that they would be going to college. Did you promise them that you would pay? So many options here. ROTC, college credits while still in h.s., live off campus and work, community colleges, CLEP, RA, internships, scholarships/grants, graduate in 3 yrs vice 4.


I also second the idea of making her tell you what people with her major make per year. Could be an eye opener for her.


You are obviously a great example on how to RE. Maybe sit down with her and show her how you did it and then show her the assets available for her to complete her degree (ie the bank account).
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:09 AM   #11
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We're going through this with DS, who's a senior in college. We've made it clear to him that our contribution is the max for the top in-state public university, which is about 26k/year. DD is two years behind him and gets the same offer.

You could make the same offer to your kids. Personally, I'd never pay more than this to go to another school. I don't see the value. The one exception I made to this rule is if my children get into a very hard/competitive school, such as Stanford or CalTech. At that point, I'd find a way to make it work. Fortunately, that's not going to be an issue for us.

We made a slightly different choice though and have always planned to work until both our kids are done with college. In your case, it sounds like you have 20k/year already saved and are looking at a 10k/year shortfall.

The way I see it, you have three options:

1. Scholarships. If your kids are doing well academically, then they can qualify for merit scholarships. We visited a 2nd tier in-state school last week and I was left with the impression that if your child is above the academic average for that school, they'll get extra money. This could help offset your 10k/year deficit. Also remember that depending on the major, there are additional scholarship opportunities they can apply for in their junior/senior years. There a lot of opportunities here.

2. Find a way to earn 10k/year. Maybe a 3 month contract in your former field of work?

3. Have your kids deal with the remaining balance. In the end, if they leave college with 40k of debt, that's not the end of the world. But make sure they pick a major with good employment prospects. And keep in mind, you can always help them
with this debt in the future. In our case, DS is seriously considering a school that'll cost 10k/year more than our contribution. He's ok with 40k of debt and he's planning on a CompSci major, so we're not worried about him getting a job or paying off the debt.

I hope this is helpful. Good luck!
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:10 AM   #12
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The EFC is divided by the number of family members attending college. In later years you will have two in college and the numbers will not be as dismal. You are looking at funding college over 8 years according to the children's ages. FAFSA calculates (if numbers remain similar) 8 years x $37k/year = $296k. You budgeted 3 children x 4 years x $20k/child each year = $240k. I say you are "only" $56k short.

The "divide by number of family members in college" created a loophole that was closed several years ago. Mom and Dad would sign-up for courses at the local community college and game the system.

We had two children in college between 2005 and 2010 and they overlapped 3 years so I know how this works.

We did it with scholarships, grants, loans, savings and our HELOC. The loans were subsidized and we made a deal that provided a strong incentive. The student took the subsidized loans. If they finished school Mom and Dad paid off the loan. If they did not finish school they had to pay off the loan. Fortunately Mom and Dad paid off both! I remember my son's reaction when we laid out the deal at dinner one night..."Well that's a no brainer!"

I cannot take credit for the idea. My boss gave it to me. While in college his son absconded with the college fund and went missing on a surfing adventure until he called out of the blue. He was broke and stuck in Hawaii.

Have you heard of My Scholly? I would check it out. It was invented (too late for us) by a student at my alma mater and was on Shark Tank TV show.
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:11 AM   #13
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In California, a potential student could go to a community college for two years, get a transfer AA, transfer to a public 4 year school and be guaranteed to graduate in two years (it is literally the law - there are mandated transfer programs). With a computer science or related major paid internships are easy to get and may count for some of the credits, and most jobs with several years of experience in computer related fields here are in the six figures.

We had our kids look at the Payscale reports for starting salary by college and major and also the Job Outlook Handbook. Those resources are all free and online and can save a lot of heart ache post graduation by avoiding schools and majors with poor ROIs.

I'd also point out that the cost of attendance usually includes categories like food and health insurance, so if you are already supporting a high school student living at home the incremental cost of switching from high school to college may be less than the full cost of attendance, because some of those costs are incurred whether your dependent is in college or not.
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:17 AM   #14
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FiveDriver, I agree with your thoughts. A FAFSA is required however for their daughter to get a Stafford Loan unless the rules have changed recently.

I think this is correct... my DS got a loan, but his interest is not deferred... still, made him take it....
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:23 AM   #15
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Lots of great answers....

Like others, I am allocating $25K per year for 4 years.... DS picked a 5 year degree, so he will have to find ways to pay the difference...

He will probably work during the summer...
He will take some courses at the CC also during summer...
He is looking to reduce costs etc. by moving closer to his university.... but I think it will increase costs, but it is his decision as he KNOWS what help we are giving... he also said it will help with his classes...


He is taking out loans....

He might be able to get some financial help in a year or so as he seems to be the best student... even a few thousand can make a difference...
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:49 AM   #16
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+1



Community colleges are one of the best tools out there for substantially reducing college expenses.



#1 grandson came out of HS with ~30 hours of college credit and is spending a year living at home, working part time and attending a CC. Next fall he will transfer and, between the 529 plan we set up for him 18 years ago and the balance from his parents, he should graduate debt free.



His two younger brothers are expected to be on the same plan...


Our daughter went 2 years CC, and 2 years State U. We told her the 5th year was on her. Well the outcome was worse...She decided 12 hours short of a sheepskin, she didnt want to finish it. So, not only no degree, but a waste on money for her mom and dad. So you just never
know outcomes. She had the potential to have a paid for degree and quit with nothing.
Now me, my father paid for 2 years, and I was on the hook for 2. Loved them early 1980s CDs... Took max student loans out first three years and had them in all 12-16% CDs. The accrued interest from the student loans paid my 4th year for free. I also worked 20 hours a week in college and didnt feel deprived. It also provided several female opportunities....
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:51 AM   #17
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Also, there is big money to be saved by going to a community college and getting all of the BS courses out of the way for a year or two, as long as you insure/verify with both institutions ahead of time they will all transfer 1:1. There are side benefits to this as well with regards to easing into college life, study habits, etc.
Right. Just make sure you know transfer requirements, whether courses will transfer, and so on.

The four-year degree doesn't say the first two years were at a community college, anyway, so as long as you know the transfer standards of the four-year college one wishes to attend and feel they can make the grade to get there, it is MUCH cheaper.
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Old 10-11-2016, 12:13 PM   #18
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It also provided several female opportunities....
Did you opt for the surgery or just dress the part?
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Old 10-11-2016, 12:20 PM   #19
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I ER'd a little over 3 years ago with 3 children, the oldest which was about to start HS. They are now in 8th, 9th, and 12th grade and they are all doing very well academically. We always imparted on our children that they would be going to college and now we are stepping on that bridge and are about to begin this journey for our oldest.

I recently completed the FAFSA and our EFC is a little over 37K (ouch). This is great, but my ER plan only allotted for 20K/child/year leaving a 17K shortfall between what we can pay and any potential financial aid. I thought 20K was gracious and would be enough. Fast forward three years and I realize I may have been a little too optimistic in my assumptions. Even our second-tier state university has a 27K cost of attendance so we would be full pay.

We recently informed DD how much we could contribute and that we would not take out any Parent Plus loans in our name. This means she will have to take loans and work during her college career to make it affordable. I know this is the typical experience today, but here is where the guilt and regret are creeping in to my psyche. Guilt that I should get a job so she doesn't have to take loans and restrict the schools she can consider; and regret that I left a great career which would make college costs a mute point.

My other struggle is with college costs in general. A couple of the colleges she would like to attend have sticker prices of 60K plus. One is 66K for an Art and Design school. It may be the number one rated, but still. 66K really! :face palm: I understand it's flooded with mostly very well to do kids (think Saudi prince) that have lots of extra spending money. My kid would not fit in very well.

We'll get through this, but right now it's a pretty low point in my ER journey. This may be a word of caution for those in a similar situation and thinking of ER.
Did you tell your senior-in-HS DD (and your other kids) that you would pay for whatever college they wanted before you recently informed her that she won't? Would you have kept working the past three years to do so had you realized you would be short otherwise? It seems a little late in the game to me to be changing your course on this--has she already sent in applications etc.?

I'm sure she'll get through it and you will too. There will be campus jobs even at the art and design school. See where she gets in and take it from there.
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I probably shouldn't post this because I know it will upset some, but...

Be very careful when you plan to follow the Community College route. I know all systems are not alike, but I am a University professor who has taught in 3 different states over the years and my views obviously reflect what I have seen in those states (FL, MS, OH).

CC transfers into science and engineering programs often struggle to catch up with their peers who have been in University for their first two years. Courses taken to satisfy general ed. requirements are a good idea; foundational courses for a major (calculus, physics, chemistry etc.) should be avoided. Be especially careful to make sure any sequence is completed at a single college. Never take Physics I at CC and expect to pick up Physics II at a University, etc.

I also want to stress that college costs can be quite a bit lower PER CHILD than your EFC. That number is your "expected" total outlay per year. With two in college you pay EFC/2 per child - a real bonus with my two kids. However, I'm sure you are aware (if not you soon will be!) that most colleges do NOT guarantee to make up the difference between your EFC and the cost of attendance.

You need to apply to a series of schools and see what's offered. Good luck!
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