How to Afford Anything

[Sandy]

I also look at some of the budgets and wonder how they do it .Especially when I see a working women's clothes budget of $80.00 .When I was working my pantyhose budget alone was close to that .Plus I wonder where do they buy their underwear . My underwear needs replacement yearly .I can see buying things at Good will but going years without buying any clothing just amazes me . How do you all do it ? Especially if you are working at a job that doesn't have paid uniforms? Please enlighten me ?.

I can't do $80/year. I spend more than that on athletic shoes - 2 pair per year, like W2R, I don't scrimp there.

Probably about $500/year. The biggest expenses are shoes (including athletic shoes), undergarments and stockings.

Each year I supplement with a few new things and retire the stuff that is worn, torn, stained, etc. I buy on sale and at goodwill. I am also still wearing suits that I bought 20 years ago. Today I am wearing a 20+ year old shirt and jacket, 3 year old pants and 2 year old shoes.

Buying quality and maintaining the same weight goes a long way.

 

[Medit8]

This guy is a world class "nutter" (as the English would say).

 

[sailor]

HaHa: I'm curious about these Birkenstocks

About $150 of it was resoling my Birks.
I spend more on shoe soles than I do on tires for my car. And according to my shoe repairman I wear soles evenly.

Mike,
I know you are dancing and walking a lot, but the monetary amount caught my eye. "Original" Birkenstocks supose to last 50k miles walking. How much does it cost to re-sole Birks in SF? If you have more than one pair have you considered re-soling it with Vibram sole? (this one would be too stiff for dancing)

sailor,
a) whose clothes spending in 2007 was $44.95 pair of Keen sandals on sale.
b) whose family spent $1090.45 for children clothing (to be fair this includes "specialty equipment" too, like a balaclava or reef walking shoes or rash guard, etc).

 

[Moemg]

Buying quality and maintaining the same weight goes a long way.

That's so true .I have been the same weight for forty years give or take five pounds.

 

[Walt34]

True! There are many things that I would be too proud to do, and living with my parents (when they were alive) is one of them. Never did that after age 18, despite some rough years.

I suppose it depends on the people involved. After a divorce when I was 34 I moved in with my mother for 18 months several reasons, not all of them selfish. From my perspective it accomplished two goals: I got a cheap place to stay while I saved down payment for a house. The other issue was looking after her.

She was having a hard time keeping up the house by herself, and there's nothing like living there to see all the little things in a house that needed attention, many of which were 20-minute repairs/maintenance. Wives often call it a "honey-do list" - ALL of that stuff got done. While I was there I paid all the utilities, (house was paid for) and the short list is that I cleaned out 20 years of junk my packrat father had left behind when he died, repainted the entire interior, and fixed up the lawn and landscaping since she was planning on selling the house a few years later.

No one implied that I was leaching - it just seemed to be the arrangement that met both our needs at the time. And yeah, it was kind of uncomfortable being 34 and living with Mom. But I made sure that was a temporary arrangement. I stuck to the savings plan and in 18 months I was gone.

 

[Orchidflower]

Let's take a poll of all the ladies (single or married) on this board who would get hot and bothered over a guy living in a rented room? Uh...noone is raising their hands? My...why a surprise... I wouldn't even want this guy for a casual friend, frankly.
He reminds me of my Personal Investing professor in college who bragged he kept a strict record of every penny he spent daily...every penny...and--if we were his wife--he wouldn't let us (and I quote) "spend a penny." Mmmm...delightful lifestyle...

And where is our Board member "Lazygood4nothing" in this discussion? Isn't this somewhat his lifestyle?

 

[HFWR]

And according to my shoe repairman I wear soles evenly.

It's good to rotate regularly...

Thanks to not gaining [-]much[/-] weight over the years, I still have a closet full of khakis and business-casual shirts left from the last time I had to dress for success.

For the last 9 years, my work attire has been short-pants, tees/polos, and $30 Reeboks from Kohl's...

Good practice for FIRE!

 

[haha]

Mike,
I know you are dancing and walking a lot, but the monetary amount caught my eye. "Original" Birkenstocks supose to last 50k miles walking. How much does it cost to re-sole Birks in SF? If you have more than one pair have you considered re-soling it with Vibram sole? (this one would be too stiff for dancing)

Sailor-I don't wear them to dance, just walking and normal walk around wear. I have 2 pairs of Londons which I rotate daily most of the year, and one pair of open Arizonas for summer. I just resole with normal Birkenstock soles, or those heel inserts when the ball and toe are still OK. It costs $22 to $42, depending on what has to be done. If they say a sole lasts 50K miles they are not paying attention! I wear a step counter, and I think I may walk 2000 -2200 miles/year on the Birks, and as you can see I go through a lot of soles to do that! I have a really good pair of Norwegian welt Merrill boots which I wear only on trails or in the city with snow on the ground, and those soles have held up very well.

I realize it would be cheaper to just buy cheap running shoes. But they wouldn’t keep my feet dry, and Birkenstocks cured my plantar fasciitis which was getting really troublesome so I am brand loyal. I even use Birkenstock inserts in my hiking boots.

I have wondered about putting a relatively light Vibram sole on one pair of Birks, so I can navigate better in bad weather. Have you tried this?

I have 2 pairs of dance shoes, which last almost forever because they never get outside pavement usage. For clubs and summer outside dancing I just wear a light pair of oxfords which also last a long time. Dancing is a very low wear item on shoes!

Ha

 

[A854321]

This guy is truly a self-congratulatory leech.

He's pretty proud about how he manipulates people (women). I know someone like this. People avoid him because it doesn't take much to realize he is always sizing you up to see how he can get something from you.

Needless to say, I don't return his calls or e-mails. Neither do any of my friends.

 

[starter82]

Let's take a poll of all the ladies (single or married) on this board who would get hot and bothered over a guy living in a rented room? Uh...noone is raising their hands? My...why a surprise... I wouldn't even want this guy for a casual friend, frankly.
He reminds me of my Personal Investing professor in college who bragged he kept a strict record of every penny he spent daily...every penny...and--if we were his wife--he wouldn't let us (and I quote) "spend a penny." Mmmm...delightful lifestyle...

I think it's difficult if not impossible to pass judgment on an abstract, unnamed person. Also, I'd feel sorry for excluding people for "hot and bothered" based on their renting status. Yet again, there's more focus on the external than what's on the inside; it may not be shape and size of body parts, but it's not far off. I'd much prefer renting a room to being in massive debt and spending behind means, yet I'd give him a chance as well (i.e., give both a chance). "Hot and bothered" isn't exactly how I'd choose to describe a lasting relationship and probably not even the precursor to one. Outsides aren't characteristic of insides.

It is easy to afford whatever you want. I think people are afraid to ask for things that they want; they assume that they won't get it. Americans are too used to seeing a price tag on things; even flea markets generally have priced items. Many so-called third world nations and developing nations do not do this; in this way, they truly know what free markets are.

Also, there's waste. Why purchase containers to store food? Cottage cheese, yogurt, etc. (more than just dairy) come in such containers. Why pay for electricity that you really don't use? Unplug the microwave when not in use. Do you really need to pay to keep the time? After all, the microwave isn't a clock. There's probably a reason why my electricity bill was always $16-28 dollars/month when I lived alone.

 

[Moemg]

I also see nothing wrong with going dutch or taking turns paying .Not for the first date but after that why should the guys always have to pay ? Especially now when we are usually making the same or more than them .Is this a regional thing ? Because in the Northeast going dutch or taking turns paying is common practice .

 

[Orchidflower]

Starter82, what bothered you most about that post? The phrase "hot and bothered" or the fact that you seem to agree with this guy's philosophy and are taking it personally?
This guy is a leech, a mooch, not only cheap but he lives off of other people and uses their money for his own personal satisfaction. He's a creep, and, yes, stupid women will spend time and even marry guys like him at times. But he is still a creep deep down.
And if you can find any redeeming features in his philosophy of life, well...good for you. I agree with a few things he says, but mooching off others is definitely not one of them. And if you can find some wonderful insides to this guy...well, you are far better at finding them than I have been. I say he is a mooch, leech and creep. Sorry.
Interesting that in the Northeast of this country going Dutch is accepted. It doesn't seem to work that way in the Midwest or the South yet. But I am not opposed to picking up the tab every once in awhile either. It equals things out more, I think. And, if we women want our economic freedom, we have to take some responsibility.

 

[tightasadrum]

Starter82, what bothered you most about that post? The phrase "hot and bothered" or the fact that you seem to agree with this guy's philosophy and are taking it personally?
This guy is a leech, a mooch, not only cheap but he lives off of other people and uses their money for his own personal satisfaction. He's a creep, and, yes, stupid women will spend time and even marry guys like him at times. But he is still a creep deep down.
And if you can find any redeeming features in his philosophy of life, well...good for you. I agree with a few things he says, but mooching off others is definitely not one of them. And if you can find some wonderful insides to this guy...well, you are far better at finding them than I have been. I say he is a mooch, leech and creep. Sorry.
Interesting that in the Northeast of this country going Dutch is accepted. It doesn't seem to work that way in the Midwest or the South yet. But I am not opposed to picking up the tab every once in awhile either. It equals things out more, I think. And, if we women want our economic freedom, we have to take some responsibility.

Come on Orchidflower, tell us how you REALLY feel.
BTW, drop dead gorgeous DD routinely pays her own way (20 YO GA gal) and always has. I've tried to convince her to go ahead and let the guys pay and save the old man and herself a few dollars. Nope. She will only allow them to pay if she considers the young man someone she's "dating", which to her means she's not dating anyone else. To me, this is backwards, but she's aways done what she wanted to do and been no problem to us, so whatever works for her. In a weird way I guess she's testing for a serious commitment, is he willing to carry the load for her.

I think it's difficult if not impossible to pass judgment on an abstract, unnamed person. Also, I'd feel sorry for excluding people for "hot and bothered" based on their renting status. Yet again, there's more focus on the external than what's on the inside; it may not be shape and size of body parts, but it's not far off. I'd much prefer renting a room to being in massive debt and spending behind means, yet I'd give him a chance as well (i.e., give both a chance). "Hot and bothered" isn't exactly how I'd choose to describe a lasting relationship and probably not even the precursor to one. Outsides aren't characteristic of insides.

It is easy to afford whatever you want. I think people are afraid to ask for things that they want; they assume that they won't get it. Americans are too used to seeing a price tag on things; even flea markets generally have priced items. Many so-called third world nations and developing nations do not do this; in this way, they truly know what free markets are.

Also, there's waste. Why purchase containers to store food? Cottage cheese, yogurt, etc. (more than just dairy) come in such containers. Why pay for electricity that you really don't use? Unplug the microwave when not in use. Do you really need to pay to keep the time? After all, the microwave isn't a clock. There's probably a reason why my electricity bill was always $16-28 dollars/month when I lived alone.

Hey Starter82, will you marry me...oops, never mind, I'm already married.

 

[W2R]

This guy is a leech, a mooch, not only cheap but he lives off of other people and uses their money for his own personal satisfaction. He's a creep, and, yes, stupid women will spend time and even marry guys like him at times. But he is still a creep deep down.

I see your point and I think most women do have higher standards than that, you're right. Before I met Frank on an internet dating website, some of my criteria for a date were that he HAD to have a job, a place of his own, and a car or some way of getting around town. The guy didn't have to be rich, but no way would I date a leech or mooch like that.

Interesting that in the Northeast of this country going Dutch is accepted. It doesn't seem to work that way in the Midwest or the South yet.

As a native New Orleanian, Frank wants to (and does) pick up the tab when we go out. Sometimes he lets me pick up the tip. I always offer, and thank him afterwards. It is still customary for gentlemen in our 50-ish generation to pay the tab, decide where we're going, and drive the car down here.

 

[Orchidflower]

tightasadrum: I get your message loud and clear. I'm just too subtle for you?
AND, by the way, your DD sounds like a very, very smart girl. If she is really great looking, paying her own way gives her back the control that she feels she would give away by having the guy pay. Hence, she feels no obligation to...shall we say...pay him back in "any" way. (Sorry, this is reality talking here, parent.) She is a sharp cookie, and I would leave her alone. Sounds like you did alright by her, and she can take care of herself pretty well without interference.

 

[Moemg]

It is still customary for gentlemen in our 50-ish generation to pay the tab, decide where we're going, and drive the car down here.

What if you want to go someplace else ? Do you get a choice ? I was brought up in a much more liberal area so I'm amazed at some of this . I always lived where whoever felt like it drove and we alternated where we would go and who would pay .I'd be a fish out of water in that other world.

 

[beowulf]

If you dig a bit more into his site, you will find that not only is Mr. Rockwell now married, but he also has a one year old son. So much for his comment about never having kids as they are an affront to the environment and scaldingly expensive - or something like that.

Like with everything else, people tend to evolve as their situations change - I'll bet he wouldn't write those words about kids now. As for living with parents, it's not something I did or would have wanted to do. But our son stayed with us until he was about 24 - 2 years out of college - before he finally shoved off for the wild West. We charged him a modest rent, but saved it for him, and, when he left, sent the amount to him so he would have some extra money starting out. Our daughter was the opposite - came home from college and moved out in a few months. Something about us stifling her lifestyle .

As Rockwell says, it's all about priorities - I wouldn't spend the thousands he does on cameras, but that's not my passion. I finally broke down and bought a digital camera as film and developing is expensive and now I can take tons of lousy pictures instead of only a few . It must be nice to be able to walk to work, but for most of us in suburbia, it just ain't gonna work. Yes, it would be great to rarely have to drive, but the reality is that most people do. And I miss the point of having all those cars if you never use them - like having a Picasso in your safe and taking it out once a year to look at. What's the point?

But there are a few nuggets of interesting info in his writing - I'll just take away what I can.

 

[W2R]

What if you want to go someplace else ? Do you get a choice ? I was brought up in a much more liberal area so I'm amazed at some of this . I always lived where whoever felt like it drove and we alternated where we would go and who would pay .I'd be a fish out of water in that other world.

Frank is a gentleman in every sense of the word, which includes being basically a sweet guy. He can pretty much tell what places I like and don't like, from my reactions. Also, I tell him if I think a place is wonderful or not very good. Since we go together and have the same experiences at places, we tend to agree almost completely on which ones we like. So, most of the time he chooses places that I like. We both love food, which helps. He takes me to my favorite restaurants frequently.

But often he surprises me. He is a native New Orleanian, whereas I have only lived here I guess 12 years. He knows about hundreds of little hole-in-the-walls that are unknown gems, so to speak, and he is as likely as not to take me to a place that I've never heard of or been to, that turns out to be fabulous. The last time he did this we ended up at a restaurant with mostly gay clientele and staff, in a 200+ year old building in Faubourg Marigny with 16 foot ceilings and cypress floors, and plants everywhere. I had one of the best salads of my life there! It was amazing and the staff and environment were very pleasant. I like his surprises.

Sometimes we used to go to a cheap Italian place in a bad neighborhood that had the most incredible Italian salad (we have a different name for it here) and cost almost nothing, and the waitress had probably known him for 40 years. It was destroyed in the storm and never came back, but still I am glad he took me there. I would not have tried that place myself, had he not taken me there.

I don't often suggest a place unless we are starving and places are going to be jammed, like at Mardi Gras. Then when he suggests a place on the parade route, I gently tell him that is nuts and I suggest a place that might actually have room for us, for example. Right after the storm when it was hard or impossible to find any grocery stores or restaurants at all that were open, I did a lot of suggesting.

 

[cantlogin]

...my criteria for a date were that he HAD to have a job....

Do I detect an anti early-retiree bias here?

 

[kombat]

If you dig a bit more into his site, you will find that not only is Mr. Rockwell now married, but he also has a one year old son. So much for his comment about never having kids as they are an affront to the environment and scaldingly expensive - or something like that. I'll bet he wouldn't write those words about kids now.

Actually, he did. Ryan is over a year old, and he just wrote that "Money" article this month. Although I checked today and noticed he's deleted virtually the entire paragraph about not having kids. But even when it was "whole," he had added a comment at the bottom apologizing to his infant son. It seems someone pointed out that once little Ryan grew old enough to read, he might get the wrong idea, reading a diatribe from his father about how children destroy the planet and one's finances.

 

[W2R]

Do I detect an anti early-retiree bias here?

ROFL!! I guess I should have expressed myself a little more clearly. He HAD to have a job or other means of supporting himself!

 

[tightasadrum]

tightasadrum: I get your message loud and clear. I'm just too subtle for you?
AND, by the way, your DD sounds like a very, very smart girl. If she is really great looking, paying her own way gives her back the control that she feels she would give away by having the guy pay. Hence, she feels no obligation to...shall we say...pay him back in "any" way. (Sorry, this is reality talking here, parent.) She is a sharp cookie, and I would leave her alone. Sounds like you did alright by her, and she can take care of herself pretty well without interference.

Orchidflower, I'm an engineer for heaven sake. I don't DO subtle. I was just amused. And thanks for the very kind words about DD. She's a wonderful young lady, takes after her mom. In fact, she IS her mom in many ways, particularly in brain power.

 

[Orchidflower]

Well, tightasadrum, I was in sales and sales management for over 30 years; so, if you think YOU don't do subtle....cough, cough... I just enjoy being a sarcastic smartass every once in awhile.
This is just my opinion, but, to me, this Rockwell lacks pride and character. Guess he's off my Christmas card list as--despite having some very good and usable ideas--he's kinda disgusting to me overall.

 

[starter82]

Starter82, what bothered you most about that post? The phrase "hot and bothered" or the fact that you seem to agree with this guy's philosophy and are taking it personally?
This guy is a leech, a mooch, not only cheap but he lives off of other people and uses their money for his own personal satisfaction. He's a creep, and, yes, stupid women will spend time and even marry guys like him at times. But he is still a creep deep down.
And if you can find any redeeming features in his philosophy of life, well...good for you. I agree with a few things he says, but mooching off others is definitely not one of them. And if you can find some wonderful insides to this guy...well, you are far better at finding them than I have been. I say he is a mooch, leech and creep. Sorry.
Interesting that in the Northeast of this country going Dutch is accepted. It doesn't seem to work that way in the Midwest or the South yet. But I am not opposed to picking up the tab every once in awhile either. It equals things out more, I think. And, if we women want our economic freedom, we have to take some responsibility.

Nothing in particular bothered me about the post. I find it symptomatic of the larger issue, defined perspective.

I don't think he's the things that you attribute to him. I don't believe the he's a leech or mooch. I didn't see extensive evidence of that, nor do I truly believe that it's all that possible. My feeling is that if people willingly give you things, they're yours for the taking. What counts as "willingly"? Pretty much everything. Most people will complain about others living off them yet never address the issue. If the issue hasn't been addressed, I don't think it can be considered mooching.

But why is it "every once in a while" that you're willing to pick up the check? Is it only "every once in a while" that you want to be equal or take responsibility? To me, that at the least resides in the zip code next to mooching (per the definition that I've inferred from your posting) and is its co-habitation partner. How does mooching go? Does it only not count when it's up to any of us to pick up the check? How about for children not of legal age to have a job? Those of legal working age yet not yet old enough to be kicked out of the home?

I think it's about perspective. You say this isn't; I say that isn't. Really though, maybe 'this' equals 'that'.

 

[Moemg]

It would be interesting to hear from some of the single guys .Do they always expect to pay for dates even if it is a long term relationship or would they be glad to share and if they were uncomfortable with going dutch would they want the woman to compensate in other (not that way ) ways such as having him over for dinner .Just wondering ?