REduce burn rate with an RV. A used one?

[greg]

We always learn alot while out on the road. One time a full-timer who sort of 'worked the nice weather' talked with us for about an hour about his lifestyle. He had a girlfriend with her own MH, and he'd meet up with her in pre-planned locations. They were both older and had their own respective families (and no interest in marriage). He used his daughter's as a home base. She spent a great deal of time visiting her larger family and friends.

As I understood it, he sort of worked the fringes. He stayed at places during the tourism low season, the shoulder seasons. He could usually nab some work if needed. Although he didn't get specific, my gusss was that he was getting by on Social Security and maybe some little extra. His daughter sent him money or forwarded his checks. He said he always wintered at The Slabs, with his girlfriend:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3707/is_200102/ai_n8936588

 

[dex]

I've been full timing since July 18; I'm a city boy and never RV'd before this.
My travel traler is only 17' and has everything you need. I'm traveling alone and it is a nice size. If there were two people in this rig they would have to coreograph their movements and you really couldn't get out of eachothers way. But I think it could work if you both were fit!

http://www.casitatraveltrailers.com/home.html

The lifestyle is nice - you just hook up and go to where you want stay as long as you want and have fun. The high gas prices means that all RV parks have spaces.

Cost of my set up is minimal. I didn't have to buy a new tow vehicle; the unit cost about $14K and this one tends to hold it value better than most due to limited availabilty and construction. If you get a large RV then you will most likely need to buy a larger tow vehicle; then your investment is larger and so are some of your costs. Also, you will take a hit when you try to sell both.

I'm estimating all my living expenses at apx 2,200 - 2,500/month. This includes all costs - health ins., storage costs, gas, RV costs everything - I don't have a home or appartment at this time.

So don't RV for financial savings; do it for the lifestyle.

Dex

"You don't take the jouney; the jouney takes you." Jack Kerouac & John Stienbeck

 

[Sam]

http://www.hopalog.com/articles-of-interest/budget-information/

This young family of six (4 kids) has been full timing for 2 years, mostly in Mexico and sometimes in the US.  Average monthly expense is around $2,500, excluding wear & tear & depreciation on their new van, and new trailer.

 

[Sheryl]

I've been researching fifth wheelers for a year or so and have determined that regardless of time planned to spend in rv, do not buy an entry level rv.  Something like a Jayco Eagle is the minimum in quality that I would ever purchase.

I've been reading several RV websites lately (thanks for the links, everyone) but I'm having a hard time determining relative quality of the mfgs. It appears Lazy Daze is on the high-quality end, but which other mfgs. do people recommend?

 

[Sarah in SC]

Well, my 30 year old Airstream is holding up pretty good, so I'd recommend it for the craftmanship and detail that was available then, don' t know what they look like now.
Like anything, the best way to tell how a MH is put together is to look inside the cabinetry for haphazard, slapped-together workmanship (had a friend with a pop-up and there was a glue line a full 3 inches from the wood piece it was supposed to be under! He calls his camper a monday morning special!).
The finish can tell you a lot about the quality of the things you can't see.

Sarah

 

[Andre1969]

What was the difference between an Airstream and an Argosy back then? Was the Airstream aluminum and the Argosy fiberglass? Or was the Argosy just painted, while the Airstream was always silver? They're built on a Chevy/GMC chassis, right?

 

[Sarah in SC]

Yep, it is a bread truck chassis with a chevy 454 engine. A real workhorse! The only thing we've wimped out on fixing ourselves was a brake problem in the rear (try bleeding 28 feet of brake line!).

The Argosy started out as the first foray for Airstream into motorhomes. They wanted to be able to use panels that weren't perfect enough for the silver bullets, so they created the painted Argosy model. It was in production for most of the 70s, I think.
At some point they started making Argosy trailers as well. Now they make a ton of Airstream motorhomes, but they don't look cool like mine.

Sarah

 

[Sam]

I've been reading several RV websites lately (thanks for the links, everyone) but I'm having a hard time determining relative quality of the mfgs.  It appears Lazy Daze is on the high-quality end, but which other mfgs. do people recommend?

Lazy Daze only make class C RVs.  Other reputable class C manufacturers are Born Free and Big Foot.

About 85% of class C RVs are built on the Ford E-450 chassis.  About 10% are built on Chevy Express chassis.   When people talk about quality class C, they are referring to the build quality of the coach (the house portion) not the mechanical & drive train (chassis).

 

[audreyh1]

$2,500 to $3,000 per month seems to be pretty typical for RV fulltimers who don't do a lot of workamping or volunteer-for-site type stuff. We tend to spend more like twice that amount, so I guess that means we're really "living it up" RV lifestyle-wise.

It's a great lifestyle.

Audrey

 

[modhatter]

From all the reading I recently did on this subject and the costs associated with full time RVing. It appears unanamous that the costs are as much (if not more if you do any real traveling) as home ownership.

I really don't think the reason for pursuing this life style should be based on finding a cheaper life style, but rather a different life style.

I had an older RV many years ago used for week end and week long trips. Thoroughly enjoyed it. However, if it were full time for me, I would need a much nicer unit with satalite TV and Internet, which really starts to push your monthly nut right up there. You have all the same expences as you do with owning a home. Your insurance is generally higher, your internet and TV is higher. Your utilities are higher, and if you use nice campgrounds to park, your monthly rent is much higher than your taxes. Then there is the issue of gas and repairs and depreciatioon of your RV.

So if financial reasons are what's motivating you, I think you are ill-informed. But if you are willing to pay the price for the "freedom of exploring and seeing the country" well that's another issue.

There are people who own modest RV's and do mostly boondocking. You do have to pay occational "dump fees" and get water. They don't have many of the creature comforts that we have become accostomed to and really appreciate as we get older. No expensive satalite TV hookups and internet hookups. Little in the way of AC or heat, and very little travel at gas prices today. That's OK for the young, I guess, but for me, I want all the goodies.

If I were to consider it, I would do it by taking my chances on an older unit, in hopes that it just might last at least a couple of years, before I decided if it was the life style for me. If not - after my "trial year", I could probobly sell it without losiing a bundle. And if I liked it, I could sell it, and get a more suitable long term RV that would fulfill more of my needs, and probably make a smarter purchase after experiencing the one year trial living.

 

[SteveR]

I think some folks can and do live cheaper doing the Full Time (FT) RV lifestyle. For others it is just a way to get away from work or to snowbird out of the snow and slush of the northern half of the country. It can cost you anything you like; just like anything else in life. A top of the line Class A can run you a cool $1.4M while an older but still functional one can be as low as $10k. There are RV resorts where you can purchase a space for $25k and pay $700/month in "fees". You can also boondock and never spend a dime to park your RV. Since you can fix your own food and have your own bed you don't have to use a hotel. Water can be found at any spigot and most businesses would be OK with you "toping off" your fresh water tank. There are thousands of free sewage dumps all around the country and LP and gas or diesel would be your major expenes one the rig is paid for.

I don't plan on being FT, DW would go nuts with that lifestyle but we do plan on doing a lot of land travel over the next several years and this seems to be the best option for us.

You can camp.........or you can RV. They are not the same thing. You can do both but you need to know which one you want to do more before you sink $$$ into a rig. A 40 foot Class A with a 15 foot towed (toad) or a 45 foot 5th wheel will not fit just anywhere. If you want to camp with one of these things you will have to be very careful where you want to go and what you want to do once you get there. Most National parks will we off limits for a rig of that size. I believe the average allowed length of many state parks is around 27 feet.

 

[Kitty]

Just to add my two cents worth .....

I met an elderly couple a few years back that had an older but sericeable Class A, and towed a small car. They spent their winters in Mexico on the beach at an RV park for very little money and they said they had lots of fun with their friends there. They were on their way north to the Sedonna area of Arizona to spend the summer and take trips from there to visit with the grandkids. They had been doing this trip for years and said they would keep on doing it until health or some other serious problem forced them to stop.

It is mostly what pleases you, what makes you feel good. Try it out with an older but serviceable RV get to know the ropes and if it is for you, you will know and if it isn't put a sign on it and sell it or give it to charity whatever, again pleases you.

Kitty

 

[jazz4cash]

The company I work for makes/sells components for the RV industry which sometimes break and I get to speak with many unhappy RV'ers. They can be the toughest of all customers, but recently I had a chance to go to some motorhome "rallys" and meet them on better terms and I gotta say, as a group they are lovin the lifestyle making the most of thier experience......makes me sorta jealous!

 

[sgeeeee]

I keep trying to justify an RV, but it doesn't make sense for us yet. We travel about 1/3 of the time, but we still spend a lot of time in very remote places where most RV's can't go. For these trips we drive our Dodge RAM with a camper shell. If we are spending a week or more, we set up a tent and a shower as part of the campsite.

We do go places where an RV would provide much greater comfort than our camper shell and tent, but there are fewer of those trips than of the more remote style. I figure as we age we may tip the balance toward the more civilized trips and we'll buy an RV.

 

[Billy]

I thought SteveR gave a good summation of the situation..

Since Billy and I fulltimed as part of our 16 years being ER'd, we do have experience and insight.

We bought used. We realized early on that we wanted as few motors and moving parts as possible, which is why we didn't buy a Class A and have a vehicle in tow. We also knew there were limits to the size of RV's especially in State parks,  so we 'made do' with a smaller rig.

To counteract the cost of fuel, we moved sloooowly and didn't try to blaze through hundreds of miles every day. Sometimes we would stay in a location on the beach for a week or so and then move 20 miles down the coast and stay another week. Other times we would stay a month in one location (or longer) to get better rental prices.

A girlfriend of mine in recent months asked my advice on purchasing an RV. The one she had in mind was almost new, had 3 slide outs, a washer and dryer inside, marble countertops, wooden (real wood-read heavy!) cabinets, etc. etc. etc.

Her intention was to be comfortable 'just like home.' In my recommendations I stated Do not underestimate the cost of fuel about 4 times. I also recommended she buy used in case she didn't like the lifestyle, she wouldn't have thousands tied up in a 'brain fart'.

Turns out she cut back the number of slide outs, nixed the washer and dryer, and bought a little older. What was going to cost her $50,000, she cut down to about $20,000.

Smart girl... 

Also, we have a chapter in our book on the RV lifestyle. (see Table of Contents: http://www.retireearlylifestyle.com/table_of_contents.htm)

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[madeit!]

I am one month into retirement and spent the entire month traveling in my new truck camper. Many USFS and USNP campgrounds range from $ 0 to 5 or 8 per night with the Golden Eagle card. State and Canadian Provencial parks are more expensive - around $20 or so. I plan to do this every other month or so. Fall trip to new england, Winter trip to Key West and next spring a three or four month trip to Alaska, Canada and points west. The RV is more comfortable than a hotel, you can take your hobbies, the internet etc with you. With a truck camper, you can go anywhere and "camp" anywhere you can park a car. My wife is a gourmet cook so we save money by almost never eating out. She can cook anything in our galley that you could at home. The concept is basically, "The house is small, but the backyard is infinite..." You want waterfront living? Mountain top living? Whatever, you got it. Don't like the nieghbors? Just start up and move. Cost of fuel be damned, it is a great lifestyle.

 

[Billy]

My wife is a gourmet cook so we save money by almost never eating out.  She can cook anything in our galley that you could at home.  The concept is basically, "The house is small, but the backyard is infinite..."  You want waterfront living?  Mountain top living? Whatever, you got it.  Don't like the nieghbors?  Just start up and move.  Cost of fuel be damned, it is a great lifestyle.

Our sentiments exactly. Couldn’t have said it better. It’s a great way to travel, cost efficient, no property taxes, and the best of both worlds. You have stability and movement at the same time! 

Sigh…

We kinda miss it…
8)
Good for you!

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement

 

[dex]

This is only my 2nd month full timing and gasoline costs are the major cost in the budget so far.

Last month $675; this month $875. I'm in California now and the per gallon cost the highest I've encountered so far. I've been moving around a lot and I expect to stay longer in one place in the future.

The $875 got me about 3,800 miles of travel at 14.5 mpg while towing and 20.0 when not towing.

I'm pretty happy with those mpg figures considering others get.

I eat out less than once per week - it isn't the money issue it is the weight issue. Although I'm pretty active while traveling it is very easy to put on weight. So I make sure I eat low fat meals and don't eat for the wrong reasons.

My guess is that the RV lifestyle cost is equal to a fixed home cost - the money is just spent in different areas.

 

[Billy]

This is only my 2nd month full timing and gasoline costs are the major cost in the budget so far.

When we were full timing, we consciously managed our motion on the road.

We didn't travel on weekends or holidays (traffic!! and waiting in traffic! = using more gas and causing more stress  ) Coming into campgrounds on weekends gave us a smaller selection of sites.

Instead, we traveled pretty much from Monday thru Thursday, planning on where we wanted to be for the weekend.

We also chose to drive less than 250 miles on any one day if possible - and usually much less. We avoided rush hour traffic (another huge stress creator) and so we drove from the morning and planning to arrive at our destination at about 1-2pm. This gave us the pick of the sites, and more time to use the amenities.

Also, we didn't have to set up in the dark (more stress) or back into our site in the dark or find the whatchamacallit in the dark....

And, of course, we tracked our expenses and knew the miles we were driving, etc...

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[audreyh1]

After over a year now of fulltiming, I would say our monthly costs on average dropped around 20 to 25%. This is mainly due to the fact that we don't also have the expenses of a house, and we don't have separate "travel expenses" anymore. This is a really, really cheap way to travel - if you have the time to enjoy it.

Now - our house was paid for. And our RV is paid for. If you put any kind of amortization/depreciation into the picture - any financial benefit is blown out of the water.

We know people who once they owned their RV, are able to enjoy the fulltime lifestyle with amazingly low expenses. It doesn't take much to enjoy the "luxury" version of RV living either, if you are so inclined.

Yes, fuel can be expensive. But we found that if we wandered about at a nice easy (comfortable, relaxed) pace, our RV fuel expenses ran more like $200 a month, which really is no big deal for us. $200 will move us 625 miles at $3 per gallon diesel. We spend way more than that on eating out or groceries. And we usually spend at least $150 per month on car fuel.

Audrey

 

[Billy]

Audryh1

Now - our house was paid for. And our RV is paid for. If you put any kind of amortization/depreciation into the picture - any financial benefit is blown out of the water.

Smart approach, IMO. Why go into retirement with a mortgage of any kind? It is a removable burden and by removing it, your option horizon is expanded.

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[SteveR]

Ok you RVers.  Here is a question for you. 

We have pretty much researched ourselves to a razor's edge and have concluded that for your wants and needs and budget (post cabin sale) a Bigfoot 40MHTSL is what we want.  We found a 2005 model that is new and is priced reduced to about 75% of MSRP.  I know we are paying a premium for the luxury additions to the rig but for us it is worth it as we plan to snowbird for several months at a time so it will be "home" for us and we don't mind being a bit spoiled. 

The question is:  is 25% or MRSP on a new Bigfoot that is now almost 2 years old a good deal or is there "room" to lower the price by X percent?

For the thrifty group on the board....I know...I know.  But DW has some must requirements and so do I and a Class A is not one of them but the relative level of creature comforts is.  The rig is in the upper range of our budget but knocking off a few more % would be nice....just where to put that stake in the ground and either take the deal or walk away is the hard part.  To complicate matters the rig is in Canada. 

Constructive comments from the RV experts would be greatly appreciated.   

edited to fix percent MSRP typo.

 

[Texas Proud]

Steve....

Just a question on your math... just to make sure.. you say they are selling AT 25% of MSRP... so if MSRP was $100,000 then you are paying $25,000... is this right??

And my thought on the price (which by the way I have no idea what it would be)... everything is compared to something else you can buy.. so if the price is good compared to the other RVs you have looked at.. then it is a good price no matter what the MSRP says... if you do not see the value... then it is too high..

 

[SteveR]

Steve....

Just a question on your math... just to make sure.. you say they are selling AT 25% of MSRP... so if MSRP was $100,000 then you are paying $25,000... is this right??

And my thought on the price (which by the way I have no idea what it would be)... everything is compared to something else you can buy..  so if the price is good compared to the other RVs you have looked at.. then it is a good price no matter what the MSRP says...  if you do not see the value... then it is too high..

I did it backwards...it is 75% of MSRP. Thanks for catching this.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Steve,

From my recent research, paying 85% of MSRP for a new current model year rig is a fair deal. 80% probably good for a new prior model year (e.g. buying a 2006 now as the 2007s are appearing -- what I did). For a 2 year old new model, 75% sounds like a good deal.

The only real downside is that you take a hit on resale because of model year. Drive it til it dies and you will have done as well as you can expect.