Retirement Paradise is Panama

[GTM]

As I understand it, annuities don't qualify for some reason.....

-m

It's true annuities wont cut it. You need a pension or SS of $600 per month and its need to be for life and must be varified.

There are other options such as business ownership or investment in government programs but if you have the cash the best way is to put 200k into a bank there.
Or 100k in the bank and buy an apartment in Panama City.
First world living in high rise complexes are about $100 per square foot. 100k can buy something nice.

 

[modhatter]

Pager,
I enjoyed your posts, and wish you would come back. Don't let one person scare you off, when many more like hearing about your experiences there. I tried the first web site you posted that showed your development, but it would not come up. Did you get the address right?

Wondered how the cost of living there compared with Mexico. Of course Mexico is a big place, but I am speaking of the expate enclaves there. Anyway, post another link if you have one, and come on back.

 

[haha]

Pager,
I enjoyed your posts, and wish you would come back.  Don't let one person scare you off, when many more like hearing about your experiences there. 

Señor PagaPoco, definitely don't let a Teddy-Bear like ol' Ha scare you away from your appointed task. I fully support anyone's plans to move to Panama - I mean, besides Iraq and Afghanistan, where in the world can you go that has recently been at war with the USA?

Nowhere, that's where! But in addition to warm weather and lots of bananas Panama can provide you with these thrilling events:

"On December 15, 1989, Noriega sought and was given by the legislature the title of chief executive officer of the government. The Noriega-led assembly declared that a state of war with the United States existed. The next day Panamanian soldiers killed an unarmed U.S. Marine officer dressed in civilian clothes.

Retaliation by the United States was quick and decisive. On December 17, U.S. President George Bush ordered troops to Panama, with the subsequently announced aims of seizing Noriega to face drug charges in the United States, protecting American lives and property, and restoring Panamanian liberties. The initial attack took place in darkness on the morning of December 20 and was focused primarily on Noriega's headquarters in Panama City"

All this sounds really nice to me, but I would definitely budget a little extra to cover bunker building.

Ha

 

[vic]

Now, unless there is a typo in the date, that is 16 years ago.... Although unfortunate for the individual who was killed it also seems fairly uneventful to me.

Pagar,
Keep on posting about Panama. I am very interested to hear from someone who actually lives there.

Vicky

 

[Lancelot]

Not to mention the side issues- most of us speak English, not Spanish.

Jeez, I was considering visiting Central America until I found out about the Spanish thingy.

I wonder if they have TV and indoor bathrooms...

Lance

 

[pagar]

Jeez, I was considering visiting Central America until I found out about the Spanish thingy.

I wonder if they have TV and indoor bathrooms...

Lance

Indoor bathrooms? Sometimes. TV and cell phones always.
Seriously, this country is a whole lot more advanced than some people think,
In fact, I suspect sometimes the outdoor bathrooms are strictly for use by the tourists, who don't have a clue that the natives are laughing at them while taking their money. Having used some so-called indoor bathrooms in several foreign countries; I don't think you should worry about whether Panama's bathrooms will meet your standard.

 

[pagar]

Pagar:

Thanks for the info. I still think Panama is more expensive than, say, Argentina or Brazil or Venezuela...

-m

Unless you'll welcome in certain political circles-you might want to avoid Venezuela right now.

 

[pagar]

Ditto here - I am very greatful to hear from anyone with personal experience in Central America (or anywhere for that matter) and apprecitated the links very much. Please stick around, Pagar!

Another thing I'd be interested in hearing is how you feel Panama compares to other CA countries as far as cost of living and safety/security.

There is no comparision. Panama is much safer and more secure than any of the other CA countries.

 

[pagar]

I don't know, but to me your assertion is possibly true, but beside the point. How many of us are looking into making retirement homes in the cities you mentioned?

Not to mention the side issues- most of us speak English, not Spanish. I have lived in several Latin states, and in my opinion, although US police departments can be corrupt, it is a real stretch to mention the worst of them in the same breath with Panama, or really anywhere south of the Rio Bravo.

It just seems not wise to uproot oneself to go somewhere far away where the best that can be said is "it may not be any worse than (the worst) parts of some (bad) us central cities- but anyway it is sure cheap!!" Whoopee!

ha

My guess is there are now a good many Americans cities where it would be harder to find a person who speaks English than Spanish. Personally I'm in this country because I married a wonderful woman from here and we are
better off and enjoying life more here. No one is forcing any one to read about Panama; those who don't want to know about it should just ignore these messages.

 

[pagar]

Señor PagaPoco, definitely don't let a Teddy-Bear like ol' Ha scare you away from your appointed task. I fully support anyone's plans to move to Panama - I mean, besides Iraq and Afghanistan, where in the world can you go that has recently been at war with the USA?

Nowhere, that's where! But in addition to warm weather and lots of bananas Panama can provide you with these thrilling events:

"On December 15, 1989, Noriega sought and was given by the legislature the title of chief executive officer of the government. The Noriega-led assembly declared that a state of war with the United States existed. The next day Panamanian soldiers killed an unarmed U.S. Marine officer dressed in civilian clothes.

Retaliation by the United States was quick and decisive. On December 17, U.S. President George Bush ordered troops to Panama, with the subsequently announced aims of seizing Noriega to face drug charges in the United States, protecting American lives and property, and restoring Panamanian liberties. The initial attack took place in darkness on the morning of December 20 and was focused primarily on Noriega's headquarters in Panama City"

All this sounds really nice to me, but I would definitely budget a little extra to cover bunker building.

Ha

Marines die in many countries, and have since Nov 10th 1775. I quote from an article in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer,Sept 1st,2005-Mike Barber
titled "Marine's last letter found on computer' Others have died for my freedom" a message Cpl Jeff Starr composed for his girlfriend, to be read
if he did not return from Iraq.



"I don't regret going, everybody dies but few get to do it for something as important as freedom. It may seem confusing why we are in Iraq, it's not to me. I'm here helping these people, so that they can live the way we live. Not have to worry about tyrants or vicious dictators. To do what they want with their lives. To me that is why I died. Others have died for my freedom, now this is my mark."

I have never been in the Marines. I have no idea what that Marine Capt thought that day, or what message he might have wished to leave that he did not get the chance to, but I can tell you that the branch of service I retired from and I believe all others-teach that when you take the oath to defend the United States, you may be called upon to give your life to do so.
The Marine Capt that died here in Panama that day in Dec 1989 gave his life in defense of America, and as a result of the US reaction. Panama is now free again and the person who caused the whole mess sits in an American prison, pretty much in luxury (compared to how he would be treated in Panama). Panama is a small country that can never hope to
field the type of forces required to over throw a corrupt dictator. The message that Americans should remember from that action in 1989 is that
it is very easy for a corrupt dictator to be elected, and very difficult to throw
one out. Other countries are going thru the same agony today, in many cases, supported by ex American Presidents that certify phony elections:
Americans who would never defend their own country, but are quick to defend anyone who is against us, and Americans who won't do anything to stop the illegal aliens who intend to bankrupt and destroy America.
Those of us who are living here that I know feel no need for bunkers.

 

[MJ]

No one is forcing any one to read about Panama; those who don't want to know about it should just ignore these messages.

pagar, I don't have problem and in fact welcome reading information about Panama or any other country that could be a possible future retirement home for myself or anyone else on this board. IMHO, I don't think it's appropriate to include information that would appear to promote (perceived or actual) a personal or family (even wife's family) business.

So please continue to share the benefits of living in Panama.

MJ

 

[LEX]

Panama is a nice place to visit. I have and enjoyed it. However, when things go bad there, they go bad fast. You can get ripped off in Panama and have absolutely no legal remedy. Better to be a long term tourist with a plane ticket home than to sink real money into any latin american real estate that is one junta away from being spoils to the revolutionary partisans and their machete logic. 8)

 

[pbrane]

Looks like the rules may be changing in Panama regarding titled vs. right of possession land:



Kathleen Peddicord
Publisher, International Living

P.S. Across the Pond in Panama, controversy is brewing. A new Law 132 is being considered "to regulate concessions for tourism investment and the sale and transfer of island property for tourism development to the government." Or, as our local attorney puts it: "The government finally has decided to sort out the mess that is Bocas. The new law is necessary, but, yes, some people are bound to get burned if it passes."

The issue is Rights of Possession land. As we've told you many times, Rights of Possession is not the same as title (despite what some local real estate agents, especially in the Bocas del Toro region of the country, where the trouble is centered, will tell you). We hope you haven't bought land in Panama (or anywhere) that didn't come with fee-simple title. But if you have invested in Rights of Possession property in Bocas, you should be paying attention to the current debate. Brandon Clogston will keep readers of his Panama Insider fully informed...and, of course, we'll update you here, too.

 

[pbrane]

Unless you'll welcome in certain political circles-you might want to avoid Venezuela right now.

Pagar:

Do you have some experience with Venezuela? I seem to be getting opposing views on whether it might be safe for retirement or not. I'm mainly talking about areas outside the big cities, especially Caracas, which everyone seems to agree is a place to pass thru as fast as possible....

Thanks,
-m

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

pagar,

I have the same questions as pbrane about VZ.

Merida, in the mountains, looks attractive as a place to spend some time, for example to go to a Spanish language school. Cheap, safe, interesting.

I have been working with a group of VZ expats who have basically been chased out of their country by Sr. Chavez for even the slightest political activity against him. While they are educated people and well-travelled, it is hard to learn much from their points of view. I have no personal beef with Chavez (actually, it looks like an intersting experiment--how long can he keep doing what he wants to do before reality catchhes up with him? I can dig $0.25/gal gas, too!) and no interest in getting involved with local politics.

Cheers,

Lalo el Gitano

 

[pagar]

I know absolutely nothing about Venezuela, since the current regime took over. I suspect the US State Dept has a advisory on the present situation that would tell you what they think. I know what I read and if any of you are talking to VZ expats, the only thing you probably need to know, is they are alive and a lot of their fellow countrymen are not. And there will be many more that are not, before the problem is resolved.

 

[pagar]

Looks like the rules may be changing in Panama regarding titled vs. right of possession land:



Kathleen Peddicord
Publisher, International Living

P.S. Across the Pond in Panama, controversy is brewing. A new Law 132 is being considered "to regulate concessions for tourism investment and the sale and transfer of island property for tourism development to the government." Or, as our local attorney puts it: "The government finally has decided to sort out the mess that is Bocas. The new law is necessary, but, yes, some people are bound to get burned if it passes."

The issue is Rights of Possession land. As we've told you many times, Rights of Possession is not the same as title (despite what some local real estate agents, especially in the Bocas del Toro region of the country, where the trouble is centered, will tell you). We hope you haven't bought land in Panama (or anywhere) that didn't come with fee-simple title.

As I understand the ROP stuff, it boils down to one thing. Does your land come with a fee-simple title. If it does you own land. If it does not than you simply own the right to stay there untill some one kicks you off.

 

[Sheryl]

Merida, in the mountains, looks attractive as a place to spend some time, for example to go to a Spanish language school.  Cheap, safe, interesting.

At the risk of sounding obsessed with Honduras, I'll share a link you might find interesting if you're considering Spanish Language schools, Ed.

http://www.spanish-language.org/cass_prices.htm

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Thank you, Sheryl.

Ed

 

[shiny]

Sheryl, Have you taken any classes from this school (or know someone who has?) I'm also interested in this, I've looked in Costa Rica and Ecuador, but am open to Honduras as well!

 

[Sheryl]

Sheryl,  Have you taken any classes from this school (or know someone who has?)  I'm also interested in this, I've  looked in Costa Rica and Ecuador, but am open to Honduras as well! 

I haven't, but a couple that I know did. They moved to Honduras from Seattle to work on a water purification project for a year or two. They didn't know any Spanish, so they researched schools in Honduras and concluded this one was their best bet.

They studied in La Ceiba - I think they did a six week course, and seemed to have learned a lot. I think the La Ceiba location is the main school. The Copan location might be good, I don't know, but Utila definitely is branch - I saw the building when I was there, and it did not look especially impressive

 

[haha]

Accents vary quite a lot throughout Spanish speaking America, not to mention Spain itself. I studied for 4 months with a private teacher in Colombia. It was a huge help to me. When I went there I was a rank beginner, and before I left I was dreaming in Spanish. I needed to travel in the countryside, so reasonable language skill was important.

Also, my teacher was about my age and a really good guide to local street life, what to take in and what to definitely avoid.

I think the educated Andean Colombian accent is very attractive. I believe it is quite similar in Peru and Ecuador, as well many parts of Mexico. OTOH, even when I was still quite fluent (I'm not now), when I visited the coast I had trouble understanding the local accent. Caribbean Spanish sounds different.

I think sometimes it is worthwhile to go for a private teacher. Schools and classes are great, the teachers usually know some pedagogical tricks, and the social life with all the other students can be a blast. But if you have to learn the language, listening to all those gringo and German and Japanese and whatever accents IMO can make your job harder. You can learn so much walking around town with a teacher, going to the market, the drug store, the bar.

Once you finish your period of instruction you will find good transfer to the real world.

This kind of free-form approach may not work for people who prefer a very structured learning experience.

I am working now to get my skills back. Something I have enjoyed is listening to CDs of popular Latin music sung by singers with good enunciation. The Venezuelan Oscar D'Leon is one. Gloria Estefan and Ruben Blades are perfect; and they both have several CDs of mostly or all boleros, slow romantic songs. Some of these enclose the lyrics, if not they often can be found on the internet.

Ha

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

HaHa,

I like your approach. I have heard that trying to learn in a group can be difficult.

Thank you.

Ed

 

[vic]

The following website has lots of Spanish language schools all over Latin America. It gives the websites, ratings, reviews and costs.

http://www.123teachme.com/search.php?relCountryID=12

Vicky

 

[Eagle43]

When I was in Germany, I used German a lot, and learned it much quicker. So living in a Spanish-speaking country will facilitate your learning quicker. I am attending a community college class, attempting to learn Spanish. What I am not doing, to my detriment, is USING it, every day. Occasionally I put on Spanish language tv and try to discern what they're saying. But, for now, aqui no se habla espanol.