Setting the First Boundary Against Encroachment

[pb4uski]

Benjamin Franklin famously said that guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days.

We jokingly call it the "one roll of toilet paper" rule.... after you have been visiting long enough to go through a roll of toilet paper then you need to move on.

We would willingly allow our good friends to use our place for overflow guests if we are out of town.... but I'm very confident that the place would be cleaner than we left it. Some new people that we just met like in Danmar's case.... no way, Jose.

 

[bclover]

What's the friendship like? For exampleI have 4 friends that are my "ride and die" girlfriends. They have come through for me countless times, so there is not much I wouldn't don for them. If its a work buddy then decline graciously and if she gets upset that's on her

 

[Amethyst]

Just when this thread appeared, the advice columnist Carolyn Hax addressed the favor/boundaries/friendship issue with a college student, whose roommate has become very needy. Carolyn's bottom line is: "They spot people more worried about losing their friends than about losing themselves, and latch on. The powerlessness you feel is what losing yourself feels like."

CAROLYN HAX: College student can’t say no to manipulative friend | The Spokesman-Review

The core of the matter is whether the person who asks favors, is also there for you when you need her.

 

[Helen]

I had a coworker who seemed to think there was no favor too big for him to ask me to do. He and his wife moved to the same small town that I lived in, and the favors expanded to life outside of work. I had a chat with him and laid out the boundaries, no coming by my house without being invited and no more favors. Then I waited and four months later he hit me up for an 80 mile round trip ride to the airport for him both leaving and returning.

That was the end of the "friendship".

 

[Scuba]

We have a 4 day rule. Some people want to stay a week and in that case either they get a hotel or sometimes we will leave them there on their own when we go to another place. We will often loan our places out to very good friends or relatives when we are not there. Especially our Toronto Condo which we seldom use. In any event, no self invites allowed.

Does your 4 day rule apply to family? We find that after 5 days, a visit starts to feel too long, but our family lives far away and they aren't wealthy so they want to maximize the value of their airfare and stay for 1-2 weeks. So far we have gone along with this but we're always glad when people leave. Playing tour guide for 2 weeks is expensive and exhausting!

 

[Scuba]

We live in an oceanfront condo and now that we've ER'd, we travel a lot. We've been away for close to 5 months this year. Several friends half jokingly asked if we needed a house sitter while we were away. We politely declined. We did a major remodel in 2014-2015 and got new furniture that is very expensive and somewhat delicate. Most of our friends are not as careful as we are, and we just don't want to chance something expensive being damaged or broken while we're away.

 

[tmm99]

Does your 4 day rule apply to family? We find that after 5 days, a visit starts to feel too long, but our family lives far away and they aren't wealthy so they want to maximize the value of their airfare and stay for 1-2 weeks. So far we have gone along with this but we're always glad when people leave. Playing tour guide for 2 weeks is expensive and exhausting!

Maybe they stay so long because it's the only vacation they can afford to take?

Not exactly the same, but my mom (in Japan) used to come visit me for 3 weeks every year when I lived in California. Three weeks was the maximum we could take of each other. My mom was very happy to leave after 3 weeks, and I was glad to see her go. We both would have been happier with a shorter trip, but due to the distance, cost, and recovery from a long journey, it made sense for her to stay a while. She is now 89 and I live in Ontario, so I go see her, but I never stay past 10 days, and my mom is quite happy to see me go.

 

[Danmar]

Does your 4 day rule apply to family? We find that after 5 days, a visit starts to feel too long, but our family lives far away and they aren't wealthy so they want to maximize the value of their airfare and stay for 1-2 weeks. So far we have gone along with this but we're always glad when people leave. Playing tour guide for 2 weeks is expensive and exhausting!

Oh yes, especially family. Other than my daughter who can stay as long as she wants (would never be longer than a week). We are also exhausted after 4 days. In our case a solution is for us to leave them at our place while we move on to another place.

Would only loan our places out to good friends or family we trust. Not really worried about our furniture. Although it’s expensive, it’s only “stuff”.

 

[Scuba]

Oh yes, especially family. Other than my daughter who can stay as long as she wants (would never be longer than a week). We are also exhausted after 4 days. In our case a solution is for us to leave them at our place while we move on to another place.



Would only loan our places out to good friends or family we trust. Not really worried about our furniture. Although it’s expensive, it’s only “stuff”.

Curious how you avoid hurting their feelings? Maybe it's not an issue but the reason we haven't insisted on shorter visits is fear of ruffled feathers.

 

[Danmar]

Curious how you avoid hurting their feelings? Maybe it's not an issue but the reason we haven't insisted on shorter visits is fear of ruffled feathers.

I’m a guy who really values having “control”. I paid a lot of money to be in a position of control (these houses were certainly not cheap). I make it very clear up front what our rules are, ie 4 days. Also, I don’t allow “self invites”. Ie “we would like to come down to your Arizona house for a visit in March” or “how about we come up to your lake house first weekend next month? ”. My out is always that we have other commitments and will not be able to accommodate them.

If you don’t set boundaries, people will tend to walk all over you. I’m much more concerned about my feelings than their’s.

 

[brucethebroker]

Prepare a script for the next time she calls and asks. Tell her "let me check and get back to you, however, I need someone to house sit on _____ and also on _____ (use Saturdays or Sundays, or other times she might be available). You can always make up reasons to cancel the appointment at the last minute (plumber couldn't make it, etc.). See how she responds. If she is agreeable with helping you on her time off, OK. But if she won't do it......

 

[kcowan]

...If you don’t set boundaries, people will tend to walk all over you. I’m much more concerned about my feelings than their’s.

Actually, the people who leave after 3 days say they liked our approach because it forced them to get other places and they went on to be regulars.

The only regular we have is a single lady of limited means who stays for 3 or 4 days and then goes to stay with a friend for rest of the trip. But she only comes every 5 years or so.

 

[fancy free]

The key here is your immediate reaction, adrenalin spike and all. That is instinct telling you that your friend is taking advantage and bound to do it again. If it was a good friend who respects you and whom you trust, someone who would only call if it was an emergency, etc., then you wouldn’t have had that fight-or-flight response.

Kudos to you for realizing quickly that you’re in danger of being taken advantage of and figuring out how to prevent it in the future.

 

[Scuba]

I’m a guy who really values having “control”. I paid a lot of money to be in a position of control (these houses were certainly not cheap). I make it very clear up front what our rules are, ie 4 days. Also, I don’t allow “self invites”. Ie “we would like to come down to your Arizona house for a visit in March” or “how about we come up to your lake house first weekend next month? ”. My out is always that we have other commitments and will not be able to accommodate them.



If you don’t set boundaries, people will tend to walk all over you. I’m much more concerned about my feelings than their’s.

Fair enough! We've done well setting boundaries such as not allowing any usage of our property if we aren't there, but I do find it hard to limit family members who live across the country to a 4 day visit. So far, we just suck it up and let them stay 1-2 weeks. We usually enjoy the first 5 days or so, but by the end we're dying for them to leave.

 

[audreyh1]

Does your 4 day rule apply to family? We find that after 5 days, a visit starts to feel too long, but our family lives far away and they aren't wealthy so they want to maximize the value of their airfare and stay for 1-2 weeks. So far we have gone along with this but we're always glad when people leave. Playing tour guide for 2 weeks is expensive and exhausting!

Do you have to play tour guide the whole time?

 

[Danmar]

Do you have to play tour guide the whole time?

Good question. Probably not but have never mastered the art of ignoring our house guests. We tend to be very good hosts. Our guests are free to do their own thing of course but mostly seem to want to hang with us.
At the lake house there really isn’t any choice.

 

[kcowan]

Good question. Probably not but have never mastered the art of ignoring our house guests. We tend to be very good hosts. Our guests are free to do their own thing of course but mostly seem to want to hang with us.
At the lake house there really isn’t any choice.

We will wine and dine with them, but we just direct them to the sights and places that we have already seen too many times. Similarly, we encourage them to go to the beach without us. Seems to work just fine.

We will also invite them to special events that are happening during their stay. Sometimes they opt out and that is just fine.

 

[Meadbh]

I can understand that guests might need close shepherding on their first visit. However, if they are able bodied and can drive and follow a map, on subsequent visits they should be able to explore independently for the most part.

 

[Danmar]

I can understand that guests might need close shepherding on their first visit. However, if they are able bodied and can drive and follow a map, on subsequent visits they should be able to explore independently for the most part.

Agree and we have tried to encourage this but I guess we are just too much fun to be around. Since we only have guests that we have invited, I think the premise is that they are coming to visit us, not just have a place to stay.

Some guests will play golf in Phoenix (we do not) so that helps. Probably more to see in Canmore /Banff but repeat guests mostly want to ski or bike with us. In Phoenix the attraction is mostly the restaurants, biking, and our pool (other than golf). Again, lakehouse doesn’t really have much to do other than boating, swimming, playing bocce, cards, etc.

 

[Scuba]

Do you have to play tour guide the whole time?

Good question. Our family guests don't rent cars, either because they don't want to drive in LA or because they don't have/want to spend the money. Some of them are content to stay home, walk or take the local bus to do some things on their own, but others want to get out and see/do things. I suppose one solution is to let them know up front we have some other plans for part of their time with us.

 

[Scuba]

Agree and we have tried to encourage this but I guess we are just too much fun to be around.

Us too! [emoji23] Also most visitors are reluctant to drive in LA. Our visitors tend to be 70+ or younger than 25.

 

[kcowan]

We have the benefit of a town that is very walkable, and a taxi back from anywhere downtown is $4-6. If they want to venture further away, we will drive or offer them a car.

 

[audreyh1]

Good question. Our family guests don't rent cars, either because they don't want to drive in LA or because they don't have/want to spend the money. Some of them are content to stay home, walk or take the local bus to do some things on their own, but others want to get out and see/do things. I suppose one solution is to let them know up front we have some other plans for part of their time with us.

Yeah that's tough if they don't rent cars and you have to be the chauffeur!!

I guess if it's family you've got to do what's important to you.

We have family obligations. We usually spend 3 weeks a year around Xmas and one or two visits other times that involve flying half way across the country and taking care of Dad's old house, visiting Dad in assisted living, and a long get together for Xmas/New Years. If family flew here instead that would be great, but is not going to happen while Dad is in assisted living near his old house.