South Atlantic states

[jclarksnakes]

califdreamer,
....Savannah loves company! The locals (except for the criminals) seem to understand that tourism is good for the economy and so are generally very friendly to all those who seem to be from somewhere else. We have recently had more and more people moving here from the north who prolly would have picked Florida first but have run into problems with crowds and higher real estate prices in Florida recently. Our level of inmigration is likely very low compared to the more prosperous and progressive cities of Charlotte, Atalanta and Raleigh-Durham. I don't think I remember Asheville being on your oiginal list of southern Atlantic cities. IMO it is one of the nicer small cities in the country. Only drawback I see is that it is quite a ways from the ocean.
jc

Scrooge,
.....The smog from the paper mill has been very seriously tamed. There is now much less visible smog, less residue on parked cars and the smell is now pretty nice.
jc

 

[IHateCNBC]

Taxes are a killer in VA.

The other states are to humid for me to even consider.

 

[califdreamer]

califdreamer,
....Savannah loves company! The locals (except for the criminals) seem to understand that tourism is good for the economy and so are generally very friendly to all those who seem to be from somewhere else. We have recently had more and more people moving here from the north who prolly would have picked Florida first but have run into problems with crowds and higher real estate prices in Florida recently. Our level of inmigration is likely very low compared to the more prosperous and progressive cities of Charlotte, Atalanta and Raleigh-Durham. I don't think I remember Asheville being on your oiginal list of southern Atlantic cities. IMO it is one of the nicer small cities in the country. Only drawback I see is that it is quite a ways from the ocean.
jc

Scrooge,
.....The smog from the paper mill has been very seriously tamed. There is now much less visible smog, less residue on parked cars and the smell is now pretty nice.
jc

Trade-off with less in-migration:  Pros- less congested and expensive, more local flavor.... Cons:  perhaps less "prosperous and progressive" and more insular. 

Everyone seems to love Asheville.  Recently saw a piece on the Travel Channel about it.  Sounds like a great place to visit but too much chilly weather for this weather wimp.

I wondered why I read about air quality issues in Savannah... it's paper mills.  Sounds like that situation has improved considerably.

Taxes are a killer in VA.

The other states are to humid for me to even consider.

Have heard complaints about personal propty taxes in VA.  Levies on cars, boats, etc?  Don't some of the other states have this too... SC and FL?

Yessirree, if you're talking about weather in the Southeast you're talking humidity.

Anybody been to Athens, GA?

 

[justin]

Have heard complaints about personal propty taxes in VA. Levies on cars, boats, etc? Don't some of the other states have this too... SC and FL?

NC has it, too. Personal property tax on cars (and boats too I think). It's the same tax rate as you pay on your house. Between DW and me, with two middle-aged cars, we pay a little under $200 year tax on the cars.

Seems like all the states get you somehow. Income tax, sales tax, property tax, fees, mortgage recording fees.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Seems like all the states get you somehow. Income tax, sales tax, property tax, fees, mortgage recording fees.

Seems like all the states get you somehow. Income tax, sales tax, property tax, fees, mortgage recording fees.

Bingo.

Lived in Wi, Az, and Fla over a 6 year period and the fee/tex structures are very different. But you get it coming or going.

The main difference is schools, both lower and higher education. Wi was the most expensive, but the kids went to fantastic schools from K all the way through the U. of Wi and graduate schools. For that reason, the somewhat higher cost to live in Wi was a bargain.

Az had moderate taxes and fees. Then again, it cost over $300 to register my car. Of the three, Florida is the cheapest (no income tax, high tax bracket), despite high property taxes -- but not by much.

Bottom line is that you get some predictable small percentage of what you pay for

 

[polloloco]

Athens, GA, the Classic City, my home town.
The area has grown a lot in the past 30 years since I left.
Oconee County just to the south was rural and all farms in the sixties.
Now it is the preferred residential area for college profs and all other professionals who work in Athens.
You can still go a few miles to the east and get some reasonnably priced property.
A few of us offered 25,000 an acre for 90 plus acres near town and were turned down. We could have put in a development and sold for more than twice that per acre.

 

[astroboy]

While ER is still 3-4 years off, we have made the firm decision to leave LA area (Ventura Co) and head to either Chapel Hill or Athens area. We've looked from VA to FL to MS to KY and keep coming back to these two cities. Either will be a great fit for us and can't wait to having to decide which place wins out. Appreciate the comments from those in the know from these areas.

 

[califdreamer]

While ER is still 3-4 years off, we have made the firm decision to leave LA area (Ventura Co) and head to either Chapel Hill or Athens area. We've looked from VA to FL to MS to KY and keep coming back to these two cities. Either will be a great fit for us and can't wait to having to decide which place wins out. Appreciate the comments from those in the know from these areas.

Astro,

Are you guys leaving now and finding work in NC or GA until ER or maybe I misunderstood?

What aspects of Chapel Hill and Athens appealed most to you?  I know both are college towns and have "culture" w/o big city hassles.  Was there something about the particular geography, weather, housing (something other than college town advantages)?

BTW, I'm is SD.

 

[justin]

I lived in Chapel hell for 3 years while in law school. I owned a condo there. Get ready for major property taxes from hell if you move there (50-100% more than other areas in NC). Schools are above average, but other municipal services are a joke (parks and rec, libraries to name two).

Get ready to commute to Durham, Cary or Raleigh for any major shopping (Target, Walmart, Malls, dept. stores, etc).

Traffic is usually very bad around campus during the rush hours, sometimes at lunch and at class changes (every 1 hr or so). The roads getting into and out of chapel hill are frequently congested (people going to work and shopping).

The community is VERY liberal.

Restaurants were generally more expensive and lower quality than surrounding areas. Plenty of upscale dining options - nice atmospheres with so-so food.

It didn't hold much appeal to me.

That being said, there is an active college night life scene, the world-class university itself with lectures, presentations, performing arts, sports, sports SPORTS!!!! (they do OK in basketball). Lots of "artsy" folks, activists (political, environmental, etc).

Housing will be very cheap compared to California bubble areas, but it is much more expensive than surrounding areas in NC (Durham raleigh, etc.). Entry level house is probably $200-$300k. Modest 1000 sf condo a few miles from campus - $100k (that's what I had). Plenty of simple places to rent for $750+/month. A "nice" place would be over $1000.

It isn't that far to drive to Raleigh or Durham on the interstate, so "bigger" city isn't too far away. It's about 20 minutes to the RDU airport, with pretty good flight choices. Weather is a few degrees cooler than Raleigh - expect hot, humid summers for a few months.

My advice to people relocating and wanting to live in chapel hill (but not right on Franklin st. near the university) is to check out the areas just outside of chapel hill city limits. Buying a house a mile or two further out in places like durham or chatham counties (on the border of chapel hill) may save you a lot on taxes and the purchase price, while still giving you access to whatever it is you want to do in ch. hill.

It's not a place for me, but many love it there!

 

[Sarah in SC]

Native Charlestonian, DH is from Charlotte NC. Here's my opine on SC/NC:

Astro lives in Mt. Pleasant, which is one of our really "sprawly" hoods. Rampant, uncontrolled development without much infrastructure to deal with it. She's got a great place, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't live in Mt. Plastic if you gave me a house. I grew up over here, and it got out of hand in a hurry. There are lots of great communities along the coast, say from south of Myrtle Beach to just below Beaufort, that are great, easygoing, relatively inexpensive towns that are close to the water amenities we love.

The city of Charleston is really best left to the tourists and lawyers, no one else goes down there except for dinner sometimes.

Are you a suburban, urban, or rural sort of person? That would dictate a lot of your choices in the South Atlantic states...Charlotte is great for some folks, but I don't like the hustle and bustle. Unbelievable traffic and unless you want to buy something on Lake Norman ($$$), not much water. Please avoid Lancaster. I'd skip Rock Hill (the SC side of Charlotte). Greenville, SC, for a large city, is actually quite nice, with lots of public spaces and cultural events.

I prefer a little more rural area, so I live in the outer edges of Charleston, on Wadmalaw Island (near Kiawah, but only geographically). It has peace, quiet, creeks, wetlands, wildlife, and a 40 minute commute to the other end of Charleston to work. People deer hunt in my hood. I wouldn't like to live in the suburbs and since I grew up on the beach, I prefer the creeks and rivers to the beach these days.

Columbia is a no-win. Hot in Summer, Cold(er) in winter, politicians and insane college football fans. It is in a bowl dead-center of the state.

If you wanted cooler, mountain-type climate, the Clemson area (Pendleton or Walhalla come to mind) are great. There are some great small towns in the middle of SC, but I don't know how much culture you require...Abbeville, Clinton, the towns around Lakes Marion & Moultrie like Elloree (horse training country), Aiken is lovely...

If I had to move tomorrow, I'd live in Savannah or Wilmington. But not in town, on the outskirts. And for god's sakes think hard before you move somewhere like Hilton Head or Daniel Island, it is like the Stepford Wives Club. I am sure that every town/city has these horrible homogenized new suburbs with cutesy names--please do not support them with your retirement dollars.

Sarah

 

[jeff2006]

I just wanted to add that I agree with Justin about Chapel Hill. UNC-CH is really great, but the rest of the package makes for a very frustrating town, at least for me.

 

[astromeria]

I agree with Sarah--I wish we'd located further from DH's job in Charleston, but I wanted him to have a relaxing commute for a change, plus at the time (right after my father's death) I wanted to be close to my Mom (I'd always lived a minimum of 250 miles away from any family). On the other hand, Mt Plastic<hee!> isn't as bad as other sprawly areas I'm acquainted with, but it's getting there . We have a new high school, widened the main road (Rte 17), have good shopping (especially good competitive grocery shopping, Barnes & Noble, and a couple of hardware stores--the main shopping we do), an outdoor mall that's as pleasant as a mall can get, a couple of nice movie theatres, and a lovely county park on the Wando River, with woodsy trails, boardwalks through the tidal marsh, fishing, and great birdwatching. We make more use of the city than most people--concerts, plays, aart galleries, walks, so the proximity works especially while DH is working...hopefully not too much longer. On the other hand, yet another wooded road will be lost to developers soon (Venning, Sarah).

I adore Edisto Island (where our friends have a cottage that we visit often), which is just a couple islands furher down the coast than Wadmalaw) and would seriously consider moving there if not for my Mom who built a new house next door to us. I bet Wadmalaw is awesome, too--I will see it for the first time this weekend, with Sarah

 

[Sarah in SC]

Yeah, y'all, just so you know...running down Astro's home hood is NOT the best way to get another yummy lunch invitation!
Thanks for taking it in the best way poss, Astro! And yeah, the shopping is good over here, I'll grudgingly admit it. We have a 30 minute round trip to the Piggly Wiggly! Edisto, though, wow! What an incredible island--it has both the beach and the rural quality I treasure--plus a great state park.
Sarah

 

[astromeria]

Sarah, I did not take your comments amiss. Compared to the islands, Mt P is the essence of sprawl. But compared to the burbs of major metropoli (did I just make that up?), it ain't bad and has redeeming natural amenities. But I'm subject right this minute to the framers' hammers on yet another beautiful lot lost to development in my little cul de sac...bu-bye lake view from my bedroom! At least we can still see the lake from our home office, where I'm consoling myself at the moment with this forum, my hubby's company, and the last of the Humboldt Fog on Finn Crisp leftover from the weekend on edisto!

Sarah, have you been to the Serpentarium on Edisto? We went for the first time a couple weeks ago--surprising good, and I'm not particularly a reptile afficianado. Heard an excellent talk by a naturalist from Guyana (I had a hard time placing his accent/ethnicity...I thought for a while he was <East> Indian)--it was a rare nature talk that was designed for intelligent adults rather than bozos children. And the albino python was memorable--white with yellow diamonds!

We love to ride our bikes at Edisto Beach State Park at low tide (Isle of Palms, too, for that matter).

Defintely another lunch at my place in the offing

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I adore Edisto Island (where our friends have a cottage that we visit often), which is just a couple islands furher down the coast than us) and would seriously consider moving there if not for my Mom who built a new house next door to us. I bet the islands are awesome, too--I will see it for the first time this weekend, with Sarah

What's it like down near Beaufort? Know anything about Habersham (sp?) -- one of the "New Urbansim" communities I've read about?

Astro - I PM'd you some questions - let me know if you don't get it. DW and I might make a trip thataway in October.

 

[astromeria]

I've only been down Beaufort way once--we went to Hunting Island State Park (nice), then stopped in Beaufort to walk around and get some grub. It's a very samll town compared to Charleston, seemed quite attractive, way more Confederate flags though.

I don't know anything about Habersham, except that it's heavily advertised Seems similar to the Daniel Island and Ion developmetns here, or some of those Florida master-planned towns like Seaside...all new and clean and a bit theme-parky...small towns remade as upper middle class. I am both intrigued and turned off by that sort of thing--sci-fi utopia crossed with dreams of middle America crossed with, well, Stepford. I would definitely spend a lot of time in a place like that before buying. I know a couple who fled Daniel Island for Charleston.

"The Big Chill" was filmed in and around Beaufort, so you could rent that and observe while you plan your trip. Do check out Charleston and environs, too! details in a PM...

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I don't know anything about Habersham, except that it's heavily advertised Seems similar to the Daniel Island and Ion developmetns here, or some of those Florida master-planned towns like Seaside...all new and clean and a bit theme-parky...small towns remade as upper middle class. I am both intrigued and turned off by that sort of thing--sci-fi utopia crossed with dreams of middle America crossed with, well, Stepford.

I hear ya. The Disney "Celebration" thing is distasteful to me -- artificial snow on the town square at Xmas time!!

Then again, at their best, these developments attempt a return to the past where the design and architecture encourage walking, interaction, etc. When I look at the various golf communities and such with giant "clubhouses" these others don't seem so bad.

It's probably not for us, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[astroboy]

Astro,

Are you guys leaving now and finding work in NC or GA until ER or maybe I misunderstood?

What aspects of Chapel Hill and Athens appealed most to you?  I know both are college towns and have "culture" w/o big city hassles.  Was there something about the particular geography, weather, housing (something other than college town advantages)?

BTW, I'm is SD.

Haven't ER'd yet and still in LA area.  The college town atmosphere is what drew us to these places the most.  Then beyond that, the weather (I know humid as h-ll, but DW loves it, so if she's happy, .......), progressive nature of towns, low cost of living and new housing (relative to CA anyway), and desire to be close to East Coast topped things off.  I agree that Chapel Hill is expensive, but as someone else noted, we're looking at Chatham Co. to the south (property taxes alot less).  Same goes for Oconee Co. south of Athens.  Don't mind living 10-20 miles out.

 

[califdreamer]

Thanks for great info on Carolinas.  As Sarah asked, "are you urban, suburban, etc?" and I'd have to say I'd be looking for urban/suburban, college town or nice beach town.  I'm (relatively ) young and single so I'm not ready for rural. 

In looking at northern FL, I'm somewhat intrigued by Gainesville.  I've only been through on the interstate and that was a long time ago.  I've heard good things although it looks like access to the beach is not that convenient.  Have heard there are good springwater swimming holes in the area... that true?

Less intrigued by Jax, though I've never been.  Maybe someone can educate me.

Thanks again everyone for informative and interestsing posts.

 

[southern transplant]

Charlotte is more of a city. I live in Raleigh and consider it more of a large town. Raleigh is the smallest area I have lived in although it is growing.
One of the fun parts about the Raleigh area that I don't think anyone has hit on is that our weather is anything but average. In the last 10 years, all of our seasons have been so different! Some winters are cold - staying around 32 degrees for days (cold is a matter of prespective!) and other winters the temperature is in the mid 40's. Summer of 2005 was beautiful staying in the low to mid 80's until mid July.

Since Raleigh keeps hitting Forbes list of best places to live and raise a family, we have such a diversified group of people living here. It is a great place to live.

By the way, since Hwy 64 east has opened up, getting to the Outer Banks from Raleigh is just under 4 hours. Getting to Wrightsville Beach is about 1.5 hours. Mountains - 4hours.

Good luck!

 

[P.S.]

Grew up in Northern VA just over the border from DC. That area is so hectic and rat race central that retirement might be uncomfortable there. Maybe farther out in the suburbs.

Currently live in VA on the Eastern coast which is a bit too red-neck for my preferences, but both DH and I have good jobs here, saving alot, so no complaining. It is though, a culinary wasteland.

Have relatives who retired to Charlottesville a few years ago, and they love it. And we love visiting. College town of the type that UVA alums wear neck ties to football games. clean, safe, very homogenous. Cost of living I think is moderate, much cheaper than LA/SF/SD real estate wise but food is much more expensive and not as good selection, although it does have several well-known restaurants.
Very green, lots of trees, landscaping, farmer's market in the downtown. Good private and public schools which probably doesn't directly affect the retiree but I think help determine the type of younger people/families drawn to an area.
There is a WholeFoods in Charlottesville, which is my personal barometer of a good place to live, since the marketing people at Wholefoods have basically done the research for you.
Close by is horse country, Virginia wine country, lots of antiquing. Blue ridge mountains with hiking skiing. Wintergreen resort close by.

Parents own and rent investment house in Charlotte NC, so have been with DH to check on property, etc (as paretns were in CA). We stay in the downtown Marriott, which is nice, but the downtown is very quiet on the weekends. All the activity is just outside the downtown.
Very family friendly city; it was a breeze travelling with a 4 mo old.
Because of the concentration of banking, the culture of Charlotte is a bit more sophisticated than other Southern towns of comparable size IMHO. Lots of good places to eat. Pockets of avant garde stuff, art, revitalization etc.

 

[califdreamer]

Just returned from a trip to DC and Northern VA. It had been a while since I'd been to DC so it was a lot of fun to do some of that again.

Grew up in Northern VA just over the border from DC. That area is so hectic and rat race central that retirement might be uncomfortable there. Maybe farther out in the suburbs.

I was astounded at how horrible the traffic was getting out of DC at around 3 pm on Friday. I know it was the Friday afternoon of Columbus Day weekend but, man, it was just awful. It made me long for "the 405".

 

[ijuba]

Charlottesville, Va.

We moved here a little over 3 years ago from San Diego County, CA. We were doing some pre-retirement planning along with raising a child - now 8. We researched the "best places" and tried to really evaluate those that met with our Quality of "life" needs.....

-University town - culture, educational opportunities, educated populace
-4 distinct seasons
-Manageable population (Albemarle County is 90,000 - making up part of Albemarle Co. is C'ville is @ 40K)
-Great schools
-Moderate tax structure
-Lower cost of living than where we were coming from.
-A manageable growth plan

All of these characteristics were needed, along with an eye towards early retirement.

The real estate costs are roughly 50% of SoCal.

There is a liberal side given the University of course and it blends very well with the more traditional southern rural aspect that is present here too.

The history is abundant too if one likes that....Monticello (home of Thos. Jefferson), Civil War, Revolutionary War, Colonial life, etc.

The move was a smart one for us as all we were looking for was present here.

I guess as further validation, we are always meeting ex-Californians who made the "quality of life adjustment" and chose Charlottesville too.

As far as location, we see the Blue Ridge Mtns. from our house and use them to play in often. The beach is 2.5 - 3 hours away. The town has an airport serviced by 5 or so airlines and you can jaunt to Richmond (1-1.5 hrs) or Dulles (2-2.5 hrs) if direct flights suit you better.

There is an air of preservation here as Mr. Jefferson (as he's referred to here) and his University (#1 or #2 Public Univ.) are an ever-present part of life. As well, you get the progressive thinking university/research influence.

The Arts are present via the University, the Downtown Mall (which is bricked over - artsy/shoppy version of the old downtown section of town). The Paramount Theater, which is a first-rate renovated theater, has a full line-up of stars throughout the year.

UVA is a Div. 1-A school which has a whole compliment of spectator sports-if that is something that you enjoy, as well.

Charlottesville is a great place to retire and/or raise a family. We certainly haven't regreted the decision to settle here.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Can't help but jump in as a long-ago UVa alumnus. I played trumpet in the house jazz band at the Boar's Head Inn in the late 1960s, and was in the last class to graduate before UVa went coed.

My alumni magazine leads me to believe that retirement living in Charlottesville would be very pleasant, if seriously priced. I shudder at the traffic near "the corner" as we used to call it. Route 29 used to be a pleasant 2-lane rural highway but it still seems like a great area.

After 3 years in Tucson, and another 3+ here in Tampa, I might opt for something a bit warmer, but that's just our preference. We spent decades in and around Madison, WI (another top toer university town) so the warm weather has become a necessity.

So, what types of housing and communities are available in Charlottesville these days?

 

[ijuba]

Rich,
Charlottesville real estate is roughly 75-80% of Northern Va pricing....not cheap. The cost of living is manageable though.

The median home price is about $225,000. Because of the university, the market typically stays fairly strong.

Options run the gammut from condos to estates with older and newer neighborhoods in between. In the county, it seems as though pricing is driven by school location with the higher scoring schools commanding top tier pricing.

The Boar's Head is still in operation (thriving) but Rt. 29 has 4 lanes in each direction within 2 miles of the city. The Corner at UVA is still active especially given the 25K+ student body. The Corner is one of the more revered locations to browse and hang out and keep up with the trends of college students.