What is the single best thing you did to get where you are today?

[samclem]

I do get incredibly irritated whenthose who for whatever reason do not have children grouse about the public cost of supporting the next generation, as if children are a personal consumer product. Such grousers are classic "free riders" who were happy to take but are unwilling to give.

Oh? I get irritated when people treat children like some type of public commodity for which society in general is responsible. Children are people, and providing for each of them (including their proper education and socialization) is a parental responsibility.

 

[Emeritus]

On the contrary, how many childfree people regret not having kids? By definition, being childfree means not ever wanting to have kids. Childfree people such as myself have thought this through and know it is the best decision for us.

No It means you don't have them. Many many people try and are unsuccessful.

 

[scrabbler1]

Lots of very fine people do not have children. I have no idea if Marriage/and or children is "better", but unquestionably those who do raise children are in effect "paying back" the cost of their own upbringing by supporting the next generation.

I do get incredibly irritated when those who for whatever reason do not have children grouse about the public cost of supporting the next generation, as if children are a personal consumer product. Such grousers are classic "free riders" who were happy to take but are unwilling to give.

I get incredibly irritated at those who make the personal lifestyle choice to have children then expect everyone else who had no say in that choice to help pay for that choice. They, not us childfree people, are the "free riders" who are happy to take taxpayer dollars and other support from the childfree to support their personal lifestyle choice to have children but not bear the full cost of making that personal lifestyle choice.

Those who do not have children are still "paying back" the cost of their own upbringing by supporting the next generation through their taxes to raise and educate other people's children. Some of us without children also have jobs (i.e. teachers, daycare workers) and do volunteer work (I do) which help raise and educate other people's children.

 

[NW-Bound]

I picked the right spouse! Someone that shares my beliefs in living LBYM's and also was a hard worker.

Same here. We were both hard workers, but then we moved to the "lumpen slum" and became slackers.

About our LBYM way, we are working to change that.

 

[ziggy29]

Such grousers are classic "free riders" who were happy to take but are unwilling to give.

You do realize you just pushed a hot button, yes?

I get incredibly irritated at those who make the personal lifestyle choice to have children then expect everyone else who had no say in that choice to help pay for that choice. They, not us childfree people, are the "free riders" who are happy to take taxpayer dollars and other support from the childfree to support their personal lifestyle choice to have children but not bear the full cost of making that personal lifestyle choice.

I used to think this way and there's some merit to it in principle. But then I came to just accept it based on the fact that other people's kids will be paying my SS in the future. Get to work, sonny!

I think the sooner we realize that life isn't always fair and focus on what is good in our lives, the bitterness (and the health-damaging stress it produces) can fade.

It's getting a little hot in here, folks.

 

[NW-Bound]

I used to think this way and there's some merit to it in principle. But then I came to just accept it based on the fact that other people's kids will be paying my SS in the future. Get to work, sonny!

Need young workers to change diapers of those folks in nursing homes and to spoon feed them. Else, have to loosen up immigration. Lots of diapers to change when these baby boomers hit the nursing homes en masse.

 

[Emeritus]

I get incredibly irritated at those who make the personal lifestyle choice to have children then expect everyone else who had no say in that choice to help pay for that choice. They, not us childfree people, are the "free riders" who are happy to take taxpayer dollars and other support from the childfree to support their personal lifestyle choice to have children but not bear the full cost of making that personal lifestyle choice.

Those who do not have children are still "paying back" the cost of their own upbringing by supporting the next generation through their taxes to raise and educate other people's children. Some of us without children also have jobs (i.e. teachers, daycare workers) and do volunteer work (I do) which help raise and educate other people's children.

Owning a boat is a personal lifestyle choice. Having children is different. It is an investment in the future that any society needs. Forget taxes. Anyone who wants to "retire" in any society, no matter how primitive, has a vested interest in the willingness of the next generation to take care of the retiree. When Ugh the caveman got old, he depended on offspring to feed him

Of course if you want other peoples children to be willing to help you when you no longer work, I suggest taking a very close interest in them. Any form of money and wealth depends on the next generation to turn it into food and services

 

[NW-Bound]

Any form of money and wealth depends on the next generation to turn it into food and services

+10.

Else, people can take their gold bullion to a remote island to enjoy their wealth there.

PS. I am done for now. I see the "Thread Terminator" coming round the corner.

 

[scrabbler1]

No It means you don't have them. Many many people try and are unsuccessful.

No. ChildFREE people don't want to have kids. ChildLESS people are those who want to have kids but can't have them. A common mistake made by many people.

 

[scrabbler1]

Owning a boat is a personal lifestyle choice. Having children is different. It is an investment in the future that any society needs. Forget taxes. Anyone who wants to "retire" in any society, no matter how primitive, has a vested interest in the willingness of the next generation to take care of the retiree. When Ugh the caveman got old, he depended on offspring to feed him

Of course if you want other peoples children to be willing to help you when you no longer work, I suggest taking a very close interest in them. Any form of money and wealth depends on the next generation to turn it into food and services

Do you think the 16-year-old girl who willingly gets knocked up (because she thinks having a baby is "cute" and will make her life "complete") is making an investment in the future? No way! She is making a lifestyle choice as well as creating a burden on society.

Ugh the caveman did not have a retirement account to pay others to take care of him, so he had to depend on others to care for him for free.

Your logic reminds me of anyone trying to justify a Ponzi scheme by needing to keep recruiting others to enter the scheme so it will not collapse. We don't have a shortage of people.

 

[Emeritus]

Do you think the 16-year-old girl who willingly gets knocked up (because she thinks having a baby is "cute" and will make her life "complete") is making an investment in the future? No way! She is making a lifestyle choice as well as creating a burden on society.

Ugh the caveman did not have a retirement account to pay others to take care of him, so he had to depend on others to care for him for free.

Your logic reminds me of anyone trying to justify a Ponzi scheme by needing to keep recruiting others to enter the scheme so it will not collapse. We don't have a shortage of people.

I suggest taking a special interest in the child of the 16 year old lest you eventually find yourself signing a retirement account withdrawal slip with his knife at your throat, or seeing it consumed in the taxes to keep him in prison.

 

[scrabbler1]

I used to think this way and there's some merit to it in principle. But then I came to just accept it based on the fact that other people's kids will be paying my SS in the future. Get to work, sonny!

I think the sooner we realize that life isn't always fair and focus on what is good in our lives, the bitterness (and the health-damaging stress it produces) can fade.

It's getting a little hot in here, folks.

SS is a Ponzi scheme, at least the retirement portion of it. I would love to have had some/most of my SS dollars back so I could invest them myself so I could opt out of it (the retirement portion of it). I had no choice but to be part of it. It doesn't mean I approve of it or the way it depends on creating more involuntary participants to keep it solvent (which it isn't).

At least I have stopped paying into it since I retired 18 months ago at age 45. This means my SS benefit will be reduced but I sure like not paying into it any more.

 

[ziggy29]

This thread is rapidly deteriorating, folks, and if it continues it will be closed.

Final warning.

 

[scrabbler1]

I suggest taking a special interest in the child of the 16 year old lest you eventually find yourself signing a retirement account withdrawal slip with his knife at your throat, or seeing it consumed in the taxes to keep him in prison.

I would rather see that pregnancy aborted or the kid given up for adoption, or have society not encourage such irresponsible behavior (i.e. more easily available contraception, stop glamorizing teen pregnancy) to begin with.

 

[mmcc]

Scrabbler1. When I quoted "Marry the right person", you objected saying "many" people are happier unmarried. Fair enough, but when I said having kids is best for "many" people, you strongly disagreed. It is not hard for me to understand your points and even agree with some of them, but as often the case, the passion you have for your own arguments appear to get in the way of understanding the other side. Anyway, I think it is a good thread.

 

[Emeritus]

I would rather see that pregnancy aborted or the kid given up for adoption, or have society not encourage such irresponsible behavior (i.e. more easily available contraception, stop glamorizing teen pregnancy) to begin with.

All forms of "taking a special interest" and all take money. Most of Europe actually handles this very well.

 

[Emeritus]

This thread is rapidly deteriorating, folks, and if it continues it will be closed.

Final warning.

I do think the issue of the role of the next generation in the ability to retire early is a legitimate issue

 

[ziggy29]

I do think the issue of the role of the next generation in the ability to retire early is a legitimate issue

I was more speaking of the increasingly rancorous and heated tone of the exchange, not so much the subject itself even though we've beaten it to death already.

 

[NW-Bound]

As a general rule, we do not simply "beat it to death". We want to beat it to a pulp.

What ya do all day, indeed.

 

[Tigger]

Owning a boat is a personal lifestyle choice. Having children is different. It is an investment in the future that any society needs.

On a planetary level we're overinvesting, to the extent that we're dooming ourselves if something isn't done soon. You can't keep expanding exponentially in a world with finite resources. There are two solutions: less kids or more deaths. If we don't make a choice, reality is going to make it for us.

Okay, now I'll stop whining.

Reference material

 

[samclem]

All forms of "taking a special interest" and all take money. Most of Europe actually handles this very well.

Not a great place to look for ways we should handle our problems, particularly with regard to the next generation. Some indicators of how they "handle this very well:"

How happy and well adjusted are the next generation? An indicator: Suicide rates for 15-34 YO:
US: 9.9 per 100,000
Europe (incl Russia): 13 per 100,000 (30% greater)

Well, are the youngsters finding work and building productive lives?
Youth unemployment rate (Sep 2009):
US: 17.8%
EU countries: 19.8%

And maybe we shouldn't even talk about GDP and growth rates--very real measures of wealth and well being.

I wonder why, despite all the evidence, so many Americans want to emulate so many things about Europe. It's a beautiful place and we should copy what works there, but let's not assume all is well. It ain't.

 

[Tigger]

Europe. It's a beautiful place and we should copy what works there, but let's not assume all is well. It ain't.

I disagree with most of your message, but on this I agree.

To get back on topic and having said what was the best thing that I did that got me where I am, I'll answer for my girlfriend:

She LOVES clothes and shoes, but thankfully buys them used. She found me and my interest in personal finance made her want to save too, so now she saves a large part of her income.

 

[CuppaJoe]

...
She LOVES clothes and shoes, but thankfully buys them used. She found me and my interest in personal finance made her want to save too, so now she saves a large part of her income.

Who you hang out with makes all the difference! My post on this thread facetiously said that the most important thing that got me here was "staying alive." When still young, I stopped hanging out with people who drove recklessly drunk and later improved the way I took care of my health, working no more overtime and dealing with health issues.

 

[JonnyM]

Back to the thread at hand... (We did raise a child if that matters...)

Gotta be picking the right Woman! Embarrassed to say it took both of us three tries to get it right!!!
Most of the rest was Fate (ok pure dumb luck) as both of us at the time of the union were vested, albeit early with a minimum of 13 years to go to an earliest retirement in a Local Gov DBP system. We were never overly good at LBYM other than by feeding the max we could into the equiv of a 401K (457) and having our employer yanking their cut for the future Pension (about 8%) in a sense we were already "practicing a form of LBYM in that our take home was always much much less than gross (which always seemed like some kind of fairy tale number anyway). The beauty of the gig was that over those years we were both successful in advancing into a relatively new field of endeavor that because of our experience within the Agency(s) we worked for allowed us insights into what was needed, what was required, and especially, who to know to get promoted up the chain. Unfortunately there were some speed bumps along the way, Life does have a funny way of throwing curves, and it became clear with 7 years to go before earliest retirement date, that we really should figure out how to get out of Dodge. One key was the timing of our House Payoff coincided with ER pretty close (COOL, but another piece of Fate/Luck), but more than anything it was back to picking the right spouse. It was our mutual agreement that we could and would make it on about 35% of our working world income. So in essence with live exactly within our means, but choice, and because we now have no choice. Works for us.

1. Picking the right spouse - like mind, same goals, and someone to share the FIRE life with forever.

 

[jacob]

The single biggest thing was in my opinion giving up consumerism, that is, equating living with buying stuff and living well with buying more stuff. Focusing on buying used, maintaining, repairing, and becoming more selfsufficient allowed me to save a lot of money. It was only much later that I realized that I could invest that money and cover a substantial part of my expenses already. After that I became much more focused on investing the money well.

I suspect if I had tried to increase investment income first and only later reduce the need to spend money that it would have been much less motivating both because the initial cash flows would have been small compared to what someone normally spends and because the normal budget (average for a family is $48,000 as far as I remember) is quite large which would have required million(s) to become FI.