Who is thinking of retiring in another country?

Nords said:
Boy, you really struck a chord there. I'm afraid you're going to have to start shopping for your Big Island real estate now and deciding whether to build a vacation home or an ohana compound.

I've had the thought on occasion... Don't quite have the spare cash to contemplate it seriously, though.

We actually feel more at home in Guam, Japan, and Thailand than we did vacationing this summer in Virginia & Maryland.

I think living in Hawaii for a while eased the transition to living in Japan -- and also eased the separation from the Mainland. In fact, I remember a couple of people who seemed to undergo fairly severe culture shock upon moving to Hawaii from the Mainland, as bad as I've seen in other countries.
 
bpp said:
In fact, I remember a couple of people who seemed to undergo fairly severe culture shock upon moving to Hawaii from the Mainland, as bad as I've seen in other countries.
We see that all the time in the military... and in my parents-in-law.
 
Hydroman said:
Would any of you really be considering retiring to a 3rd world country if it were not for the apparent lower cost of living? Don't forget there is a reason more people are trying to get into the US then leave.

Many of those coming here are coming for economic opportunties...if you are already FI, the economic opportunities are easily accessible no matter where you live (i.e. just leave you investments here). My plan is to eventually move to the bahamas - at least for 7-8 months of the year...not quite a 3rd world country, but almost, but the cost of living is actually a lot higher (food, gas and just about everything else costs a lot more).
 
OldMcDonald said:
... My plan is to eventually move to the bahamas - at least for 7-8 months of the year...not quite a 3rd world country, but almost, but the cost of living is actually a lot higher (food, gas and just about everything else costs a lot more).
Why not try St. Lucia? Same British heritage but cheaper. Better climate too.
 
I base in Arizona, which is reasonably cost effective, but spend at least half the time as a "structured traveler' and will base for an extended stay in Russia, Africa or South America, with plenty of side trips in the EU while in transit.

I like the hybrid approach of a home base in the US but satelite locales where I am fairly dialed in from previous visits as to where to stay and have a local network to draw upon. There is probably a whole theme to this apprach, that is having a US base and several alternate foreign destinations and rotation iteneraries depending on the time of year, travel deals, and the personal desire to explore somplace new. There are unique, off the beaten path places in Russia, eastern Europe, Africa and South America that are cost effective and could more than offset the travel costs to travel there for a few months of delightful discovery. I would get bored if I had to stay anywhere, US or off shore, all the time. 8)
 
Retiring overseas makes sense for me. I wanted to retire young (35) and living in Eastern Europe (Estonia) allows me to do that (still working on the ol' residence permit). I paid cash for a nice renovated one bedroom apartment and my bills are nothing compared to the States. I love to travel in my free time and Europe makes a great home base to get to many other countries cheap and quickly. I enjoy photography and making small art films using digital video.

I also enjoy the outdoors (hiking, snowboarding, etc) and Europe has some of the most spectacular scenery in the world where I can enjoy those activities.

I also plan to marry and have children in the next few years. Where I live the schools are free and the government gives you a small monthly payment for each child. The educational system is better (IMO) and student math and science scores are higher than the U.S. I like that I will be able to be home and spend as much time with my kids as possible while they grow up. I'm kind of working my life backwards, retiring before marriage and children. :p

Healthcare is up to Western standards (in the city) and free (not for me until I reach citizenship status, although emergency medical care is free for everyone). Taxes are a flat 23% if you make your money in country. No double taxation otherwise. Transparent government.

Excellent efficient public transportation makes getting around a breeze. Good infastructure (power, water, roads, internet.)

I also know the language and culture well enough as my family emigrated to the U.S. from here after WWII. So it's a place that makes sense for me.

I also like there are few Americans that live here. I am treated as something of a novelty and since they don't have lots of "ugly Americans" running around, they don't resent me at all. :D The are always very inquisitive wondering why I am here. I like it.

Negatives?

Sure, there are some but most don't apply to me personally.

Most people can't deal with winter here. Long dark winters that get brutally cold and lots of snow. (I don't mind the temp or the snow but a strong wind in February blowing off the Baltic sea will make you so cold you think your bones will shatter. :LOL: )

If you have a car, petrol is quite expensive. (I don't have a car, rent when needed.)

VAT taxes make some items more expensive. Designer clothes and some electronics are more expensive. (I don't wear designer clothes and buy my electronics in the U.S)

People can be a little "cold" at first but once a friend is made they will do anything for you and be a friend for life.

It's definitely not a place I would recommend most people to retire unless you have a good grasp of the language and can deal with long cold winters (something most retired folks are looking to escape.) But it works for me :D
 
Trek, thanks for your interesting post about Estonia. A lot of Eastern Europe has been looking appetizing to Western European retirees and ex-pats as well.. already Croatia is getting 'overpriced'. I was reading your other post about income, and I think any checking account statement showing steady transfers in from whatever source should suffice.

One can acquire Italian citizenship through a process called "jure sanguinis"; if one can document that one's emigrating Italian grandfather did not give up his Italian citizenship upon immigration to the US (along with certain other conditions), one has the right to claim Italian citizenship. A tortuous route involving many 'timbri' and 'bolli' and dredging up ancient birth certificates, but worth it for someone who can qualify and who really wants an EU citizenship/passport (which would include Estonia, for anyone of Italian descent tempted by Trek's post!).

Do you know whether Estonia has a set-up like this? Maybe not, if they were not an independent country at the time of your relatives' emigration...

Best of luck, tho'.. Sounds interesting!
 
As I understand it, in the years shortly after independence (1991) from the Soviet Union, you could re-claim citizenship if you were born in Estonia and fled during the war or during the occupation thereafter or if you were a direct decendant of someone who met those conditions (which would have included me). However that policy ended some time ago for decendants but you can still regain citizenship if you were born there.

I'd love to get citizenship and an EU passport but it will take some time.
 
modlair said:
Look, folks, the reality is there are a handful of countries in which you can live like a King for $12,000 a year.

The reason it's hard to get a handle on this is because the life lived is not like what you live now. If you're in Bangkok (not recommended) you won't own a car. The traffic is jam packed and there's nowhere to park. That's $3000/yr in your pocket, plus gas, plus insurance. Transport in general will cost you over that year what gas would have -- but the car depreciation and the insurance stays in your pocket. Don't think of it as some loss of lifestyle. This is how most in NYC live, too. Subway and taxis.

Housing, air conditioned housing with equivalent furniture and internet and utilities in general will be 1/4 of what you're used to -- or rather, for what you need. You may be used to 3500 square feet for 4 bedrooms for the kids, but you won't need that or even want that. Let's phrase it with one more difference -- it will be 1/4 the price of the equivalent square footage in the US.

Food costs less. Services cost less. Medical costs less.

In general, the bulk of pre retirement costs are housing, medical and car. Those get slashed overseas.

Yep, you'll get used to things. Having spent the past 5 years in the suburbs and the previous 4 in a the boonies, I now live an urban lifestyle. I still have my one car that I rarely drive, and for trip of any length, I hop on the Metro which is literally 100 ft from the back of my building. I walk everywhere for the other times. Yeah, living in a one bedroom apartment took a few weeks to get used to, and not having a dishwasher took a month to get used to, but guess what, I still use just one toilet at a time and one sink at a time, despite having downsized from a house that had 3 bathrooms. The cost of the apartment is about 1/3 of what my house cost me.

I think rodmail's right. You'll find that certain things are better and certain other things are worse at your new location, but if the in the balance, the good outweight the bad (and I would call being able to afford a good lifestyle at 1/3 the cost a great good), then hopefully you'll be happy.
 
HaHa said:
Most interest for retirement aged people going to third world counties would quickly be squelched by getting on the ground in the country for a month or so.

Even if a place is not horrible today, that is likely as not just around the corner.

Ha

I don't understand on what basis you're making this statement. I'm assuming that you have done this sort of thing yourself and found it lacking. I can see that it's not for everyone.

BTW, I get the sense that being called an Ugly American seems to be a big concern for people considering retiring overseas. The way I see it, dealing with xenophobic sentiment overseas or in the U.S. is really not that different. When I lived in California, I had to hear Californians talk trash about New Yorkers, and when I moved to Colorado, I had to hear Coloradoans complain about them damn Californians who are driving up the real estate all along the front range. Strangely for the purpose of Coloradoans' complaining about Californians, I was a Californian after having only spent 1 year in California, where I was, of course, a New Yorker. Now that I'm in Canada, I'm a dumb ass American. What you can't get away from is human nature.
 
BunsGettingFirm said:
I don't understand on what basis you're making this statement. I'm assuming that you have done this sort of thing yourself and found it lacking.

I lived and worked abroad on and off. I for the most part enjoyed it, but I had the connections both to the locals and to other working Americans that come from work.

I think with connections, or single marital status so you can go find a woman and get connections, living some places would be fine, even for older people. It seemed mostly bad for the expats that I would meet who were retired. Two major pastimes seemed to be alcohol and adultery.

This obviously would not apply to anyone like the guy going to Estonia is who ethnically connected, has a local girlfriend and knows the language.

As an older man, I like to be on my turf. Travel is fine, but if I couldn't afford to come home I would feel like and in fact literally be an exile. Obviously others feel differently, and some have the experience to base it on. My earlier post was mainly directed to those who are planning a bare bones retirement depending on foreign residence, without much experience in the area.

Also note that it is just one man's opinion. :)

Ha
 
Hi, wheel9,

Has anyone considered the possibility of 3-4 month stays in different countries as part of a retirement strategy, and still keeping a paid off home as a base for when things get boring. I have found that when traveling it is best to stay in a neighborhood and meet the people, rather than a tourist hotel.

Since your home is paid for, the cost of a furnished apartment for 3-4 months should not be too out of reach. Rotating countries/regions on an annual basis would allow you to experience a great deal of the world over time.

I only saw your old post just now. Sorry to be so slow.

I have this very thing in mind! My stays out of the country for business have often been for relatively extended periods. It is a wonderful way to experience a different country.

There are complications. The house is not paid for. If we keep the house, it should be rented out for this period. We live in a great place and it would be hard to pull up stakes for good. Still, the kids are out of the house now and as a practical thing we should be looking at downsizing. If I had my way, we would sell and go from there, but I am sure you all understand that there are two people on the oars in this boat. Negotiations have been started.
 
Hi again, Buns,

BTW, I get the sense that being called an Ugly American seems to be a big concern for people considering retiring overseas.

It should be.

Good sense suggests that there are some places we should not go.

However, the best way to avoid the problem is to fit in. Learn the language, make local friends, don't hang out with the American ex-pats (but hanging out with non-American ex-pats may be a plus), participate in the local culture. Also, stay away from US politics and never say anything about being an American. Let'em guess.

There will always be soreheads where ever we go. Avoid them and avoid confrontation.

As you know, I am also a dumb-a$$ American living and working in Canada. About once a month, some jerk says something abusive. I do not react. Of course, if it is some shopkeeper, I never go back there (has happened three times).

By hanging out with non-American ex-pats, one gains the benefit of their experiences in the same situation without the stigma. It also confuses the natives. :D This is easy in Canada as it is a nation of immigrants (something which I find very appealing in itself).

How is your schooling going?

Ed
 
Trek,

You have just partially answered some questions I asked in another thread.

Please continue elaborating the finer points of life in Estonia.

Is "transparent government" equal to "honest government"? I have been reading that some places, Montenegro for example, are totally corrupt. Bulgaria seems the same.

Thanks!

Ed
 
Ed_The_Gypsy said:
By hanging out with non-American ex-pats, one gains the benefit of their experiences in the same situation without the stigma. It also confuses the natives. :D This is easy in Canada as it is a nation of immigrants (something which I find very appealing in itself).
The other thing is that most cultures are appreciative of anyone who:
1) Tries to integrate socially and politically
2) Does not openly claim their country is better
3) Does not dwell on their home country's politics or sports.
This is a common characteristic of humble Canucks.
 
Ed_The_Gypsy said:
Trek,

Is "transparent government" equal to "honest government"? I have been reading that some places, Montenegro for example, are totally corrupt. Bulgaria seems the same.

Thanks!

Ed

Here's an interesting statistic regarding government corruption. Estonia did quite well.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html

Estonia is like a little cheap Finland. It feels more Scandinavian than it does Eastern European.
 
Interesting side note. The current president of Estonia was a U.S. citizen until he renounced it in 1996 so he could work in the Estonian government (his parents were Estonian immigrants).

And regarding the other two Baltic countries, the president of Lithuania also was a U.S. citizen and the Latvian president was Canadian.
 
Funny.. I didn't have to register... or maybe once in the past I used BugMeNot and it remembered...
http://www.bugmenot.com/

It's not really written in a style where one or two paragraphs capture the essence; I posted the whole thing. Hope that's kosher..if not, moderators feel free to chop away. In that eventuality, I'll e-mail it to anyone who requests.
Rolling Estonia
by Tom Bissell
Post date 12.21.06 | Issue date 01.15.07

The paths available to nations coping with the grim and often sanguinary legacies of communism are few. There is the Russian way: Retain, defend, and celebrate the most singularly awful aspects of communist rule. There is the Uzbek way: Swap the name of the Uzbek communist party for the People's Democratic Party of Uzbekistan; carry on forthwith. There is the Vietnamese way: Preserve communism's ceremonial, revered-elders overlay; disown most of the economic advice. And there is the Chinese way: Change everything, admit nothing. In light of all this, it is sadly difficult to imagine a post-communist nation achieving governmental transparency, an uncorrupted economy, and lives for its citizens untouched by the tentacles of a busy secret police force.

But consider Estonia. I had been hearing of the amazements of this nation and, in particular, of its capital, Tallinn, for some time: an Old City whose preserved medieval architecture functions as a Gothic time machine; a friendly populace with an enterprising work ethic (the Internet phone service Skype was an Estonian company, bought last year by eBay for more than $2 billion); a good-naturedly hedonistic nightlife; and a number of excellent restaurants. I once had the rare honor of being mugged three times in one day in one former Soviet capital--the last coming at the sticky-fingered hands of the police themselves--so, when looking over a Lonely Planet guidebook, the first place to which I usually turn is the "Dangers & Annoyances" section. While warnings abound for its Baltic neighbor Latvia ("It definitely pays to be streetwise here"), Estonia rates no admonitions at all.

The twentieth century was not kind to Estonia, providing it with both Nazi and Soviet occupations. Yet, while its history as an independent nation-state has been sporadic and brief (it spent several centuries under Russian and, before that, Swedish rule), Estonians themselves form one of the oldest extant cultures in Europe. A people closely related to the Finns, Estonians have existed in what is today called Estonia since the time of Cheops. Estonia was recently rated the sixteenth-least corrupt country in Europe, far ahead of any other former Soviet state and better than founding EU member Italy. Its bow-tied and owlishly appealing president, Toomas Hendrik Ilves--a Swedish-born ethnic Estonian who grew up in the United States--has been known to speak of Estonia forming "a Huntingtonian subcivilization different from both its southern and eastern neighbors."

In September, I traveled to Estonia--and found what appeared to be paradise. In Tallinn's airport, passing through customs took seven-and-a-half minutes. Compared with any other European capital, or even any midsized U.S. city, traffic was laughably light. Mercedes-Benz 350s and Lexus SUVs prowled the cobbled streets of Tallinn's truly lovely Old City. Technologically, Estonia seemed like a planet from a Flash Gordon serial: Clicking on my AirPort icon just about anywhere I went in Tallinn resulted in a Homeric catalog of free wireless providers, and I learned that newspapers can be purchased from vending machines with a cell phone and that voting can be done online via a national-identity card. Tallinn's striking Museum of Occupations, which details Estonia's dreary experiences under Nazi and Soviet rule, was rigorously detailed and scholarly while, at the same time, admirably restrained. (It also treated frankly the matter of many Estonians' collaboration with the Nazis.)

As for Tallinn's nightlife, it seemed genuinely fun and welcoming--if, that is, one could overlook the drunken Scottish men giving one another comradely punches in the face on their way to the next strip club. One night at a disco, a woman, for whom the phrase "out of my league" had been invented, waved me onto the dance floor to join her for an encore of "Welcome to Estonia," a popular local anthem sung to the tune of James Brown's "Living in America." Tallinn boasted what I can say were--without fear of hyperbole--the most jaw-droppingly beautiful women I have ever seen in my life. (One Estonia-boosting tract cheerfully explains: "The concentration of beautiful and interesting women in Estonia is apparently among the highest in the world.") Perhaps relatedly, the one time I was approached by a young Estonian looking to unload some drugs, the narcotic in question turned out to be Viagra.

My last night in Tallinn, a cash machine captured my bank card. While I pounded on the screen, an Estonian man approached, whipped out his cell phone, called the bank's 24-hour help line, and arranged for me to pick up my card the next morning at the bank's main branch. I thanked him, not quite believing my card would be there. The next morning, I turned up at Hansapank to find at the help desk a six-foot-two-inch Estonian Amazon so glowingly blonde she appeared to be irradiated. I made sheepish mention of my plight, upon which she smiled, reached into her desk, withdrew an envelope, and, after a cursory scan of my passport, handed me my bank card.

Nevertheless, I wondered: Was Estonia's stylishness actually some geoeconomic version of keeping up with the Joneses of the Western world? I was told more than once in Tallinn that the luxury sedans tooling around the city were, in many cases, piloted by people who could not afford them. I had noticed Tallinn's many bookstores and art galleries, but, when I actually spoke to some Estonian writers and artists, I was told that the nation's literary and art circles, while lively, were often as cliquish and status-conscious as a SoHo loft party. The story of Skype, the pride of Estonia, is also more complicated than that of a brainy Estonian phoenix rising from a heap of Soviet ash. Skype originated when a duo of Swedish investors came to Estonia in search of cheap programming talent. So, while the talent was local--and Estonians did indeed write the code--the funding and the idea behind that funding was not.

Thus, a couple of months later, I went back to Tallinn during the winter to discover a meteorologically literal darkness at noon. I was forced to note, for the first time, that Tallinn nearly shares a line of latitude with Iqaluit, the capital of the Canadian Arctic territory of Nunavut. The city's stripped trees stood against an unrelentingly sunless gray canvas. Drizzle was constant; it had apparently begun raining two weeks before I arrived. Tallinn's main square was decked out to look like one of those dispiriting little U.S. towns where Christmas is celebrated year-round. The people of Tallinn themselves were glumly hidden within designer winter coats as puffy as soufflés. The clubs, cafés, and restaurants where I had so enjoyed myself had names that now seemed desperate and effortful: Bar Bogart, Hollywood, Stereo.

I sought out Scott Diel, the editor-in-chief of Tallinn's City Paper, the Baltic region's must-read English-language magazine. Diel, a former Peace Corps volunteer once stationed in Estonia, has spent ten years living in the country, and I hoped he could revive my flagging admiration for his adopted home. Estonia, I told him, was without question the most pleasant and most advanced of the former Soviet republics--but could beating out Kazakhstan and Armenia really be considered that wondrous?

"The stuff you see in the press about Estonia," Diel told me, "about the Miracle Republic--most of it really is true. Estonia's unofficial goal is to become one of the five richest nations in Europe." Could that happen? "They'll never be richer than Switzerland, but it's not impossible to imagine that they'll come close. Estonia is still pretty homogeneous, with a government that agrees on the core issues. That's Estonia's secret. It's not that divided. Estonia wants to be Western." Diel's biggest impetus for staying in Estonia, he told me, other than his predictably lovely Estonian wife, was "lifestyle." But, when I expressed some curiosity about possibly moving with my girlfriend to Tallinn, Diel advised: "Make sure she comes in the summer."

Estonia, I initially thought, had managed to forge a real place for its ethnic Russians--unlike many former Soviet republics, whose ethnic populace sneers at the Russians with whom they grew up. Today, 26 percent of Estonia's inhabitants are ethnic Russians. Yet, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Western nations had to urge Estonia not to expel them. Estonia didn't offer most of its Russians automatic citizenship; Russians born in Estonia before 1992 have to pass a language test and suffer questions about Estonia's new constitution. This sounds much easier than it is: Estonian is a Finno-Ugric language--which means that, other than Hungarian and Finnish, it has no widely spoken relatives--and the U.S. State Department ranks it as one of the world's more difficult languages. ("You have to be really smart to be Estonian," one Estonian told me.) Many Russians have refused to take the citizenship test, and a good number of those who have still don't fully identify as Estonian. "Russian children," an émigré Estonian businessman named Jüri Estam wrote recently in City Paper, "are being raised in Estonia in the spirit of denial."

In one of Tallinn's central parks stands the Tõnismäe Monument, which is home to a bronze statue of a Soviet soldier. This was thrown up during Soviet times to commemorate the "liberation" of Estonia from Nazi rule on September 22, 1944. In actual fact, the Soviets crushed the five-day-old independent government of Otto Tief and shot or dispatched to Siberia most of his ministers. The statue is, today, an annual gathering place for Tallinn's Russian population, most of whom refuse to acknowledge the reality of the malign and unwanted Soviet takeover--perhaps believing, however subconsciously, that Estonia remains a Russian colonial possession. This feeling is not mutual. Most Estonians loathe the statue--Estam was actually arrested in May when, during a counterdemonstration, he crossed a police barricade in an attempt to display the national flag of Estonia in what he calls "a respectful manner"--but the Estonian government refuses, for some reason, to remove it. Some claim this is because many within Estonia's parliament are unduly influenced by Russians; others maintain that the politics of confrontation is simply not the Estonian way. All of which meant that the tolerant ethnic wonderland I had wanted to see on my first visit was in fact riven by some depressingly familiar complications.

"Estonians would kill me for saying this," Hillar Lauri, a Canadian-born ethnic Estonian who relocated to Tallinn in 1991, told me, "but it is essential to the Estonian psyche to say that we are not Russian. And this country is about proving that Estonia is not Russia. How do you prove it? By working harder, by reforming, by changing." Near-Shoring, Lauri's Tallinn-based company, does accounting for non-Estonian businesses operating in Estonia. His work, combined with his Canadian upbringing, gives him a panoramic view of both how far Estonia has come and how much further it needs to go. "Any area that is state-regulated," he went on, "is corrupt. Hospitals and health care are terribly unreformed areas. ... But it takes time. There are a thousand Soviet mindsets that linger."

"Estonia was an independent republic between the two world wars," Andrus Viirg, the director for Foreign Investments and Trade Promotion for Enterprise Estonia, explained to me. "This mentality has helped us because of the existing memory of a market economy and democracy. The cultural closeness to Finland also helped. We were able to watch Finnish TV. No territory under the Soviet Union had this opportunity. After regaining our independence, it was very easy for the government to proceed with Western ideas."

Nations may or may not get the governments they deserve, but Estonia's has been stable and occasionally inspired. Its first independent president, the reform-minded Lennart Meri, did much to create Estonia's vaunted democratic transparency. Meri, who died in 2006, referred to politicians who got rich while in office as "scum on the surface of the state cauldron" and once held an apologetic press conference within a public toilet when he learned that a Japanese diplomat had complained about Estonia's then-appalling (though typically Soviet) public restrooms. Meri's 2001 successor, Arnold Rüütel--a former communist widely renowned for the snores he pulled from audiences while speaking--had a mildly scandal-plagued tenure as president, but, even under his decrepit hand, Estonia joined the European Union and its economy grew at a rate of around 6 percent per year. Ilves, the current president, is widely admired, and his fondness for polymathic rhetoric has made it clear there will be no looking back. The Estonian economy, Viirg told me, especially in terms of foreign investment, "is very strong." Most of this investment--eleven billion euros between 1992 and 2005--has come from Sweden and Finland. "If we start calculating foreign investment per capita," Viirg went on, "Estonia is [one of the very] strongest performers among the new EU member countries." Estonia's GDP growth is currently running at 10 percent per year, which places it in the ranks of China and India, with virtually none of those countries' festering social ills.

It should be said that, even during Soviet times, Estonia had what was by far the highest standard of living among all the Soviet republics; it was where Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn went to complete The Gulag Archipelago in peace and quiet. Its success, then, is not really all that surprising. What is surprising is that Estonia suffered occupation by two of the twentieth century's most monstrous regimes and, rather than succumb to the sickness of totalitarianism, developed some rather potent antibodies. In Estonia, the secret police basically no longer exist; most of the investigations headed by kapo, its internal security force, are focused on software piracy rather than dissidents' e-mail. Beyond the velvet ropes of its exclusive nightclubs, Estonia might not be the most exuberant place on earth, and its winters may be the atmospheric equivalent of a Bergman film, but it is blessed in many more important areas. Estonia's greatest blessing might well turn out to be the degree to which its hard-won liberty has heightened the awareness of what its people can now freely achieve in this world. In the decidedly unmessianic Estonian air is something I have not sensed in my own country in a long time. It feels, in a word, sane.

Tom Bissell is the author of Chasing the Sea, God Lives in St. Petersburg, and The Father of All Things, which will be published in March.
 
Good article and completely fair IMO. Sums up the place pretty well.

BTW, that soviet soldier statue they are now trying to take down. They are enacting a law that says no Soviet or Nazi symbols that would cause unrest can be displayed or something to that effect. Basically a law to take down all the Soviet stuff still laying about. Russians are calling them fascists for it. ::)
 
ladelfina said:
One can acquire Italian citizenship through a process called "jure sanguinis"; if one can document that one's emigrating Italian grandfather did not give up his Italian citizenship upon immigration to the US (along with certain other conditions), one has the right to claim Italian citizenship. A tortuous route involving many 'timbri' and 'bolli' and dredging up ancient birth certificates, but worth it for someone who can qualify and who really wants an EU citizenship/passport (which would include Estonia, for anyone of Italian descent tempted by Trek's post!).

Do you know whether Estonia has a set-up like this? Maybe not, if they were not an independent country at the time of your relatives' emigration...

Best of luck, tho'.. Sounds interesting!

Interesting development. After getting a very helpful immigration officer, I was able to find out that with my mothers birth certificate, Estonia will grant me citizenship. :D The law that I though had passed is still in effect after all.
 
Trek said:
Interesting development. After getting a very helpful immigration officer, I was able to find out that with my mothers birth certificate, Estonia will grant me citizenship. :D The law that I though had passed is still in effect after all.

However, Estonia does not recognize dual citizenships and I would have to renounce my U.S. citizenship.

Having spoken with the Estonian Consulate in New York, they claim I can keep my U.S. citizenship too :D Dual citizen baby!
 
Curitiba

Somewhere back in this thread someone brought up Curitiba, Brazil (maybe me?).

I just saw a film about the city, advertising their low-budget successes at improving life in a poor but large city (2,000,000). I think I will buy the DVD.

Interesting place! Movies like this let me be a virtual tourist.

YouTube - A Convenient Truth: Urban Solutions from Curitiba, Brazil

Enjoy!

Gypsy
 
Back
Top Bottom