Why I think RVing Sucks.

[REWahoo]

I have to say I keep looking at that depreciation chart and thinking to myself - all that evaporated money would have bought a lot of nights in some nice hotel rooms.

Absolutely true.

As we RV types have said repeatedly on these threads, buying an RV is rarely a cost-saving alternative to other means travel. It is not a hobby/lifestyle that you can cost-justify when compared to air/car/hotel travel and I don't think any of us are trying to give that impression.*

For me, owning an RV is one of the reasons I built a nest egg for early retirement. Even an LBYM type occasionally recognizes there is some spending involved in certain types of recreation. I choose to spend on RVing, not on golf, motorcycles, or other pursuits.

Maybe this is one of those lifestyle issues - to own a house or to rent, etc.

Remove the "Maybe" and we are in complete agreement.

* Being a full-timer, Audrey may have numbers to refute my assertions. But for those of us who live in stick-built homes and RV part time, it is not a cost-saving hobby.

 

[audreyh1]

But, and since this was supposed to be a thread about why RV'ing sucks, I have to say I keep looking at that depreciation chart and thinking to myself - all that evaporated money would have bought a lot of nights in some nice hotel rooms.

Hyatt's Summerfield Suites have fully equipped kitchens, wifi or high speed cable internet, 24 hour fitness, convenience store, etc, and so on for about $75 a night.

Yep, I could buy me a bunch of them nights with that money, and not ever have to worry about having my hotel room towed if it breaks down.

Nobody tries to claim it's cheaper to travel by RV when you pay for an RV (other than a super good deal or one that doesn't depreciate).

The thing is, those nice hotel rooms just don't equate! They don't have wheels!!!!! That is what makes all the difference. It really does. That is everything.

And they aren't "your" room with your stuff - but belong to someone else. It's a rental.

I don't care how nice a hotel room is. It is fixed to a spot, and I have to pack and unpack my stuff in and out and drive there and deal with someone else's "place".

And with the exception of major tourist areas, most hotels are set up for business travelers and that is a completely different environment.

Audrey

 

[audreyh1]

BUT . . . . Can you get a Hyatt room right on Lake Coeur d'Alene? I mean right on the shore as in 15 feet from the water's edge. Where you prepare and serve yourself a leisurely dinner followed by a glass of wine while watching the sun set over the early autumn sky. And the next morning you wake up, grab your bike, and go explore the incredible Trail Of The Coeur d'Alene's bike trail which is only 100 feet from the door of your RV.

Yep, that is what is it all about!!!!!

Audrey

 

[brewer12345]

Oh! Oh! Lake Coeur d'Alene is one of the most beautiful places in the mainland/lower 48 United States. Just having a RV enhances one's chances of even being aware of such beauty let alone seeing and experienceing it.

What completely hooked us when we rented for the first time 3 years ago was getting to camp with a view out the RV door of the Great Sand Dunes. After that stop I knew we would be buying within a year.

 

[Leonidas]

Okay, maybe I was pulling yall's chin whiskers just a bit.

I was actually once on the other side of this conversation. Two former bosses were the office RV fanatics after evolving from trailers, to bigger trailers (and huge trucks) before finally buying huge RVs. For years, I had to listen to the two of them having endless conversations with anyone who would listen about how great their experiences were.

A few years after I had moved on I went back and asked for some advice about RV'ing. What I didn't know then was that they had both given it all up. Their advice was "don't do it". Their argument was the same thing I said in my previous post. I countered with "all my stuff in my own little house that goes everywhere", which they admitted had some appeal. But they both said that after having done it for years that, "all that money would have bought a lot of nights at a lot of nice hotels in the same places". Which was followed by what they thought was the ultimate counter to the idea: "In RVing there are only two kinds of people - those that have been towed and those that will be towed." They didn't give a lot of details about the towing experience, it almost seemed like it was too traumatic to go into.

But they did follow up that final comment with a complicated litany of all the mechanical things that can go wrong, and the absence of a single mechanic employed in the RV industry who knew "his ass from a hole in the ground". Apparently, there were some bad experiences there.

It is a lifestyle choice, and to me it sounded like there was the potential for more hassle than I wanted and not such a great utilization of the cash.

But it sounds like you guys are all enjoying the heck out of it, so I'll leave you alone now, and won't re-invade the RV space anymore.

 

[audreyh1]

That is how we got into RVing - the ability to live within such beauty.

We were already doing quite a bit of wildlife photography, and doing the car/motel thing (which was getting old, fast).

To visit Brazos Bend State Park, an incredible wildlife park, we had to stay in some dinky motel in small town with limited facilities (restaurants), and STILL drive 18 miles down smaller farm roads, with no way to get into the park before the front gate was unlocked around 8 a.m. - well past prime photography hours.

And so many beautiful camping sites at the park! Right there! It was obvious that if only we had something to camp in we would be so much better off. (had tried tent camping again a year earlier and decided too much trouble!!!!)

Until then, we hadn't seriously considered getting an RV. Frankly, most of them looked quite unappealing to us, and we didn't want anything big. But we did discuss what would be the minimum requirements - enclosed, hard walls, bathroom, fridge and microwave/cooktop, AIR CONDITIONING!

Didn't do anything for quite a while, but that planted a seed in our mind and made us more observant about what people were pulling down the road. About a year later we saw someone pulling a Casita over Wolf Creek Pass. Thought - hmmmm, something like that might work. They stopped at the summit and we went over and talked to them. They told us our 4Runner could easily pull such a thing and where they were made.

Tons of research and 6 months later, we ordered one and took delivery in early 2003.

That opened up a whole new world. It wasn't just the incredibly more convenient access to wildlife at the State Parks. I discovered that I just loved the whole camping experience. Being out in the wild, the early morning bird song, the quiet dark nights, eating out at the picnic table, having my comfortable camp chair and lounging at the campsite reading or snoozing and generally relaxing. And then whenever I wanted, just hop up, pull on the hiking boots and go for a nice long nature ramble. I thought I had found heaven! Oh yeah - and DH was taking a LOT more wildlife photographs. Heck, most of the time the wildlife showed up right in our campsite, we didn't have to go looking for it. And staying somewhere all day for several days you would find a lot more opportunities - discover bird nest sites, or particularly good locations for wildlife, etc. Things that just aren't possible if you are commuting from a motel.

And so after a year and a half of great fun camping with the Casita, we decided to ditch the house, get a bigger rig, and live this enjoyable lifestyle full time.

And we have returned to Brazos Bend State Park time and time again. In the tiny trailer, and in the monster DP "rolling condo" motorhome. Fabulous place, but only one of many, many state and federal parks we have enjoyed immensely over many years now. It just seems like such an incredible privilege to actually be able to LIVE in such a place for a week or two. I don't think I'll ever get tired of it.

Audrey

Some Photos from Brazos Bend State Park TPWD: Brazos Bend State Park

You never know what is going to happen when you are sitting quietly at your campsite!

 

[REWahoo]

"In RVing there are only two kinds of people - those that have been towed and those that will be towed." They didn't give a lot of details about the towing experience, it almost seemed like it was too traumatic to go into.

I'm surprised Audrey hasn't countered with "Been there, done that, got the T-shirt..."

http://www.early-retirement.org/for...sode-in-audreys-great-rv-adventure-46418.html

 

[winger]

Who cares what the local RV crowd is doing? There is no rule that says you have to do what they do. An RV is simply an apartment on wheels. Move it where you want and do what you want once you get there . . . that can include everything from attending a symphony to backpacking in the wilderness. What you do is entirely up to you.

We spend our winters in sunbelt parks. This winter, we were in S Texas for about 2 months, and then came to Florida for the remainder of winter. Looking at heading north around mid-April.

Most of these parks offer activities every day in the "season". Cards, board games, local bus trips, even cruises. Eating is always a big player in the activities.

We do very little activities. I"m learning to play guitar, and the park we stayed at in S Texas had a "Jam Session" for amateur musicians every Friday. I went a couple times before Christmas, and it was painful. Gospel and Christmas songs mostly. Not the type of music for me. Each session ended with dessert and soft drinks for everyone.

I know we pay extra for this stuff, but its' hard to find a good park that doesn't have the extras. In the summer, its pools and playgrounds.

I would never go to the "Pot Luck" dinners. One of my previous jobs was an installer/repairman for a big phone company. I've seen the inside of people houses.

 

[REWahoo]

I would never go to the "Pot Luck" dinners. One of my previous jobs was an installer/repairman for a big phone company. I've seen the inside of people houses.

Are you saying the term "Pot Luck" refers to where you may find yourself sitting if you have the bad luck of eating the wrong dish?

 

[audreyh1]

I'm surprised Audrey hasn't countered with "Been there, done that, got the T-shirt..."

http://www.early-retirement.org/for...sode-in-audreys-great-rv-adventure-46418.html

Yep, that's the downside. But the fact is that fancier and bigger your RV the more likely to have the negative experience of major repairs. If you keep it to a simple, not-too-heavy trailer (if good quality), you're not likely to experience that much trouble.

Part of the "cost" of going fulltime is that you have to have a large enough RV to make fulltiming comfortable. With this then, comes a lot more maintenance/service headaches, especially since it is getting 24/365 use!

So the moral of the story is - keep it simple! (If you can! )

Audrey

 

[e86s54]

I don't care how nice a hotel room is. It is fixed to a spot, and I have to pack and unpack my stuff in and out and drive there and deal with someone else's "place". Audrey

A few years ago I was sailing in Greece on a private yacht for a couple of weeks. As we hopped from island to island, I couldn't help but noticed other tourists doing the ferry/hotel thing. Waiting for ferries and lugging backpacks and suitcases in the heat and humidity. While we had everything on the boat and just moved from anchorage to anchorage/marina. I'm sure it was much more enjoyable.

Having said that, yachts are very expensive and require a lot of maintenance, but RV's would be a lot less in both categories.

E86S54

 

[audreyh1]

A few years ago I was sailing in Greece on a private yacht for a couple of weeks. As we hoped from island to island, I couldn't help but noticed other tourists doing the ferry/hotel thing. Waiting for ferries and lugging backpacks and suitcases in the heat and humidity. While we had everything on the boat and just moved from anchorage to anchorage/marina. I'm sure it was much more enjoyable.

Having said that, yachts are very expensive and require a lot of maintenance, but RV's would be a lot less in both categories.

E86S54

Ahhhh! But there is a very well established chartering business. $$$$ but much, much cheaper than owning one. A great way to go.

I LOVE traveling (recreational travel) by boat. One of these days we're definitely going to do the chartering thing.

Audrey

 

[e86s54]

Audrey,

If you have some sailings skills, you can rent with a small group from companies like Moorings Yacht Charter and Sailboat Rental Company - Sailing Vacations | The Moorings

Here's a picture of my son fishing with a beautiful backdrop!

E86S54

 

[audreyh1]

Yep, know all about Moorings!!! We had our own sailboat for several years while working and I had the Moorings catalog and fantasized about chartering when retired.

BUT

Wildlife photography got in the way (more practical on land), and then the serious RVing really got in the way.

But we are still young (still in our 50s) and so (God willing, knock on wood) we have plenty of time to get into traveling by boat.

I just love traveling on a small boat on the water - as long as I'm not out in rough water.

Audrey

 

[Nords]

Are you saying the term "Pot Luck" refers to where you may find yourself sitting if you have the bad luck of eating the wrong dish?

I thought it was referring to the quality of the "special brownies"...

 

[haha]

(had tried tent camping again a year earlier and decided too much trouble!!!!)

I think this illustrates how differently RV minds work compared to regular minds. I see a tent camping kit with cooking and cleanup kit, and a nice weather proof tent as something that can be stored in a basement or a spare closet, needs little maintenance, and can be carried on one's back to places where no one else is camping if that is an issue. No insurance needed, investment at retail $500-$1000 and very long uage life. And when you pull out your vintage gear, people are impressed rather than appalled.

That a giant $100,000 maintenance hungry machine might be simpler takes this into a whole new dimension.

Ha

 

[Westernskies]

I think this illustrates how differently RV minds work compared to regular minds. I see a tent camping kit with cooking and cleanup kit, and a nice weather proof tent as something that can be stored in a basement or a spare closet, needs little maintenance, and can be carried on one's back to places where no one else is camping if that is an issue. No insurance needed, investment at retail $500-$1000 and very long uage life. And when you pull out your vintage gear, people are impressed rather than appalled.

That a giant $100,000 maintenance hungry machine might be simpler takes this into a whole new dimension.

Ha

Try backpacking in a refrigerator, satellite dish, blender, and a latte machine... your fellow campers might really be impressed when you fire up the blender to make margaritas for the gang to go with the bacon-wrapped hot appetizers and the Superbowl on the bigscreen...

 

[REWahoo]

Here ya go: The Daiquiri Whacker Gas Powered Portable Blender

 

[audreyh1]

I think this illustrates how differently RV minds work compared to regular minds. I see a tent camping kit with cooking and cleanup kit, and a nice weather proof tent as something that can be stored in a basement or a spare closet, needs little maintenance, and can be carried on one's back to places where no one else is camping if that is an issue. No insurance needed, investment at retail $500-$1000 and very long uage life. And when you pull out your vintage gear, people are impressed rather than appalled.

That a giant $100,000 maintenance hungry machine might be simpler takes this into a whole new dimension.

Ha

Sure, tent camping is low maintenance and inexpensive. But tent camping is not that comfortable and very time consuming at the campsite. If you are camping to do something other than just camping, it gets in the way. All the cooking on the outside camp stove, dealing with coolers (which have to be kept in the car out of the way of critters) and ice, no AC, no convenient appliances, walking to the toilets and showers. Fun if all you are doing is camping (especially with family and/or friends). But if you are trying to do stuff such as getting that early photography shoot in - it's just impossible (you mean I can't just plug in my coffee maker?!?!?!).

Besides, you don't have to spend $100,000 to get an RV that significantly increases the comfort and convenience of camping. You can be well set up on about 1/10th that amount.

Audrey

 

[youbet]

As long as the folks in the big rigs stick to appropriate areas or, if in an area shared with campers, don't run the generator or park so they block the view, everybody can be happy.

DW and I think that RVer's and campers (tents or small pop-ups) can co-exist nicely. But once in a while our confidence in this is shattered when someone finds a way to cram a large motorhome into a spot amongst campers where they turn on the generator, hang lights everywhere, play music through the six zillion watt stereo system and party away endlessly. Sigh.......

We usually avoid this possibility by tenting at water access only sites. Or, with the new hard sided pop-up we're picking up Monday, plan to stay as much as possible where the big rigs won't fit.

We're campers, not RVer's. But we can definitely understand the appeal of literally having your home with you everywhere you go.

 

[REWahoo]

As long as the folks in the big rigs stick to appropriate areas or, if in an area shared with campers, don't run the generator or park so they block your view.

I can't speak for others, but I only park in the spot I'm assigned when camping and generally have no say in whether that spot blocks anyone's view. As an example, I paid a little extra to reserve a lakeside spot at a COE campground in May. I'm pretty sure one or two of those camping behind us will have their view of the lake partially obstructed by our RV. Of course they had a chance to reserve the same spot I did and chose not to do so. Should I always reserve a place "in back" so you can see better?

When it comes to running the genset, I don't recall ever doing so in a shared campground, even though the rules at many do allow it during certain hours of the day. I agree the noise is a nuisance.

... hang lights everywhere, play music through the six zillion watt stereo system and party away endlessly. Sigh.......

OK, I see your problem - you didn't get invited to the party!

Seriously, I couldn't agree more that the type of RVing you describe can make the experience miserable for everyone with the misfortune of camping within earshot. Not my idea of a good time.

Next time you see that sort of behavior, be sure to go over and say hi to Audrey.

 

[youbet]

Awwww, after I posted that I wondered if you or Audrey would take offense. I would never for a minute think you or Audrey would be inconsiderate.

I was really talking about big rig RVer's who like to "camp" and sometimes frequent campgrounds, such as National Forest Service sites, which tend to be dominated by campers. No assigned spots, first come, first served. No water, sewer or elect at the sites. But they're self-contained, ready to party and HERE DEY COME! Rocking and a rollin'! Generators rumpling. Lights strung from tree to tree. Maybe still drunk from the weekend they just spent parked in the infield of a NASCAR track......... Ugh.......

I do agree with you about the "being invited to the party part." The last time this happened, we had arrived at the campground via the Current River and were doing the minimal camping thing since everything we had with us came along in our kayaks. We were pooped after a long day of paddling and were delighted when we found the campground to be deserted. We made camp, had dinner and were sitting in solitude, leaning against a tree listening to the gurgling of the nearby rapids when "THEY" arrived. It was kinda disgusting. But you know, if they had at least invited us over to partake it would have helped. I mean, after all, we were already basking in the roar of their generator, their bright lights, music and loud mouths...... The only booze I had with us was some peppermint Schnaaps to go in our hot chocolate. A manhatten would have been nice!

 

[REWahoo]

Yeah, one of the problems with camping/boondocking on NFS land is the lack of any enforcement of the rules of behavior and common courtesy. We stay primarily in state parks, COE parks, and commercial campgrounds which, for the most part, helps avoid the "party-hearty" crowd.

 

[IndependentlyPoor]

We were cruisers, not RVers, but I think there is a lot of overlap. I wholeheartedly agree that full-timers have an entirely different experience. You have everything with you. If it gets cold, you have your warm clothes and hot chocolate; if it is rainy, you have your books and DVDs. And as I have said ad nauseam, you don't have expenses adding up at home.

I can't resist posting one of our own waking up in wonderment photos. Here is Third Age anchored in Ingram bayou:


Not a sign of humanity in sight, but we read the N.Y. Times with our morning coffee thanks to magic of a cell phone tethered to a lap-top. (Sailboats typically have big battery packs, so you can enjoy modern conveniences without disturbing peaceful surroundings with a genset.)

This is what I would ask anybody contemplating a major RV: are you a worrier? We are, and it detracted from our cruising experience. We were never comfortable leaving the most expensive thing we owned riding at anchor in a place that we did not know well while we explored onshore.

We came close to losing the boat twice while trying to navigate poorly marked inlets, and thinking about it still gives me the shudders.

Even with a brand-new boat we had a lot of breakdowns: water pumps on the genset and air conitioners, windspeed transponder (fixed by RayMarine under warranty, after I retrieved it from the top of the mast.) Mysterious electrolysis problems, on and on.

RVing is different, but there must be similar worries. RVs can be just as expensive and complex as cruising boats, so if you are inclined to fret about why the genset sounds a bit different tonight, then you might be in for trouble.

 

[e86s54]

Yep, know all about Moorings!!! We had our own sailboat for several years while working and I had the Moorings catalog and fantasized about chartering when retired. BUT

Wildlife photography got in the way (more practical on land),

Audrey,

Most beautiful place I've been on this planet (and only accessible by boat)
greanadines - Google Maps

It's in the Grenadines. The 1st Pirates of the Caribeen had a scene filmed, where the captain was left on a deserted island...it was on Petit Tabac.

The whole area is less than 20 ft deep and protected by a coral reef. The snorkeling is amazing. The underwater photography is amazing!

Six people on a 38' sailboat is relatively cheap and lots of fun.

BTW, just north Grenada has an exclusion area know as Kick-em Jenny, an underwater volcano. You can't float over it as it has zero buoyancy and so the vessel would just sink rapidly! Weird places on the high seas!

E86S54