bruce1
Full time employment: Posting here.
Look wise and mysterious and say time my friend time. That will confuse the heck out them. There is one fellow that works with me that gets it though.
BRuce
Any middle class ER wannabe's?
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Look wise and mysterious and say time my friend time. That will confuse the heck out them. There is one fellow that works with me that gets it though.
BRuce
I know of only one co-worker who "gets it". It's a little lonely in that regard. But I don't think it's a matter of not grasping ER for most people as much as the fact that hardly anyone has planned and saved for it..it is so far out of reach that they prefer not to think about it. :-/
sailaway
Dryer sheet aficionado
Some people get it early as does the people on this board, and some get it late..too late when there is nothing they can do about it but all eventually get it.
Adventuregirl
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Hi there! My DBF and I are 37 yrs old and middle class. We have many discussions about ER and although he'd really like to do it, he really doesn't believe that ER is possible for people like us.....He reads the boards here and realizes that we don't have a large income like some of the folks here, and we aren't going to make a killing on a relestate sale or see a time when investing reaped huge rewards as it has in the past. We won't have a pension to cover our healthcare, and all the money we've paid into social security may not be there when we are older.....I still believe anything is possible 
but need some help encouraging him.... Last night one of our accountant friends told us that ER just isn't possible for regular folks anymore. My DBF would like to go see a financial planner (fee only, of course) to find out if there's any hope....anyone have a similar situation or any encouraging thoughts??
Adventuregirl
but need some help encouraging him.... Last night one of our accountant friends told us that ER just isn't possible for regular folks anymore. My DBF would like to go see a financial planner (fee only, of course) to find out if there's any hope....anyone have a similar situation or any encouraging thoughts??Adventuregirl
Adventuregirl, maybe one approach is not thinking about ER but thinking about the FI part of the equation. I didn't think about retiring until about a year ago. But we have lived below our means for some time.
There are many advantages in the LBYM lifestyle beyond the possibility of ER. I am sure many could point to more, but some are:
1. You free yourself from worry about having to service too much debt if you incur as minimal debt possible. That worry is stressful and it inhibits the ability to be flexible in changing jobs or careers.
2. You won't get accustomed to a lifestyle that may be hard to give up in the future.
3. You will find satisfaction in life from things other than money and stuff.
And you may be able to retire early too.
There are many advantages in the LBYM lifestyle beyond the possibility of ER. I am sure many could point to more, but some are:
1. You free yourself from worry about having to service too much debt if you incur as minimal debt possible. That worry is stressful and it inhibits the ability to be flexible in changing jobs or careers.
2. You won't get accustomed to a lifestyle that may be hard to give up in the future.
3. You will find satisfaction in life from things other than money and stuff.
And you may be able to retire early too.
Adventuregirl
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Hi Martha! We have been practicing a LBYM lifestye and have paid off our credit cards, bought used vehicles with cash, and carry a low-interest, low$$ mortgage. We enjoy many hobbies that are free (hiking) and some that are more costly, (horse and motorcycle) but even the costs for these pastimes are kept to the minimum. It does feel great to have no worries about bills etc....our extra cash goes into our 401Ks, but I wish we could do more than just hope that some day it will be enough....
Adventuregirl
Adventuregirl
Hi Martha! We have been practicing a LBYM lifestye and have paid off our credit cards, bought used vehicles with cash, and carry a low-interest, low$$ mortgage. We enjoy many hobbies that are free (hiking) and some that are more costly, (horse and motorcycle) but even the costs for these pastimes are kept to the minimum. It does feel great to have no worries about bills etc....our extra cash goes into our 401Ks, but I wish we could do more than just hope that some day it will be enough....
Adventuregirl
It's tough. In some ways I am glad I didn't even think about the possibility when I was 37. But, remember the power of compounding.
Also, opportunities come along. If you save, in and out of the 401(k), you might be able to jump on those opportunities. As Cut Throat says, he views market drops as buying opportunities. And don't forget UncleMick, his Norwegian widow and deGaulle. lets-retire
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adventuregirl-- My plan was to retire in 2016, but I didn't really think it was a real possibility. The way I figured it was even if we didn't have enough to retire on at least we'd have a nice nest egg.
The DW went to one of the financial planners, who advised that 2016 probably wasn't feasible, but 2018 was, considering our financial situation at the time. At that time, he did ask how we hadn't filed bankruptcy with our high debt ratio.
The DW went to one of the financial planners, who advised that 2016 probably wasn't feasible, but 2018 was, considering our financial situation at the time. At that time, he did ask how we hadn't filed bankruptcy with our high debt ratio.
This is really UncleMicks to answer but deGaulle said: "God Looks after Drunkards, Fools and The United States of America." I think of that when I am down on the future.
The "Norwegian Widow" is his story about the old lady who lived in her little frugal home in the country and each day she would trot out to the mail box to pick up her dividend checks from stocks so wisely picked by her long dead spouse. Or something like that.
just hope that some day it will be enough....
Adventuregirl
I, too, get a little concerned at times thinking I may have to work forever but then I come and read this board and www.escapees.com and the Simple living networkhttp://www.simpleliving.net/news/breaking.asp and become encouraged. We have the LBYM lifestyle down and have made some real estate investments that should help, nothing huge, but will help. When I hear people say they have 1.6m, paid for house and no kids and are wondering if they can retire, my eyes glaze over and I start to drool.
We will never have that and I know our version of early retirement will include some type of very PT work. Some will insist that that is NOT retirement and they are right, but it's close enough for us. I think a lot depends on how bad you want it what YOU are willing to accept.You can do it, Girl!
Judy
Adventuregirl--
I agree with Martha's comments 100%. Don't underestimate the power of compound interest. You should try spreadsheeting some savings flows at even modest interest rates. You will be amazed at how your stash will grow in just a few years. At 37 you are way ahead of the game! It can be done.
Donner
I agree with Martha's comments 100%. Don't underestimate the power of compound interest. You should try spreadsheeting some savings flows at even modest interest rates. You will be amazed at how your stash will grow in just a few years. At 37 you are way ahead of the game! It can be done.
Donner
Mr._johngalt
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Assume there is no need for me to rehash. I try not to,
but don't always succeed.
I advocate the "NIKE" approach to ER, i.e. "Just do it!"
This makes me kind of an "army of one" on this site, but is totally
in sync with my entire life. I've been going against
the tide for 6 decades now.
JG
but don't always succeed.
I advocate the "NIKE" approach to ER, i.e. "Just do it!"
This makes me kind of an "army of one" on this site, but is totally
in sync with my entire life. I've been going against
the tide for 6 decades now.
JG
Re: Worry constructively.
Just like stockbrokers who don't own yachts, I'm extremely suspicious about financial people who can't figure out how to become financially independent.
I went through a two-year search for a financial planner who could verify my math and shoulder some of my ER angst. It was a bust. Most of the advisors aren't interested in calculating very detailed scenarios. (One of them listened to my parameters over the phone and said "Why not just hold your withdrawal rate under 4% and stop worrying about it?") While you may not have a pension, they'd rather run cookie-cutter scenarios like "70% of your pre-retirement income" and "assume your investments grow at 8%". Others want you to buy their specific financial products while claiming that their share of the 12(b)-1 fees means that they're "fee based".
Here's a couple suggestions:
- Put together a detailed budget of your annual expenses. Take your time on this and be brutally conservative (especially on healthcare). Use the SS website's calculator to get an accurate estimate of your benefits if you ER instead of working to age 62. Look at paying off the mortgage (or not) or rental costs. Other threads here project the costs of new roofs, rising property taxes, replacement appliances/cars, a kid's wedding, a fantasy vacation, etc.
- Once you have that budget, run it through FIRECalc and see how big a portfolio you'd need to achieve an 80% success ratio. Or, to be even more conservative, multiply your annual expenses by 25 to determine your required portfolio size for a 4% withdrawal rate. Anything under a $40K annual budget is a six-figure portfolio.
- Figure out how much (and for how long) you'd have to invest at a 6-7% annual return to achieve the size of that portfolio. Think about part-time work, high-deductible medical insurance, PT lifestyle, cutting back on other expenses, whatever.
If you're still concerned, check your math with the Financial Engines website (it'll cost far less than a financial advisor and it doesn't have sales pressure).
If you must go the human route, try AXA. They have some of the most robust simulation software in the business (although it's arguably no better than Financial Engines). Find the nearest rep and tell them what you want, but be upfront about the possibility of not going through with the whole thing.
They'll give you a free hour's consultation to try to change your mind. Along with an interview on risk profiles, objectives, etc. they'll give you a form requesting a humongous data package. Just the process of finding & organizing all of that data will cause you to check your FIRE assumptions and start making your own calculations. Then, before you go back to the AXA rep's office, you can run your numbers one more time through FIRECalc & Financial Engines before deciding if you want to pay these people.
The $2500 didn't seem worth it. Especially after spending a few months here!
Did this accountant "friend" happen to be ER'd? Otherwise how the heck would they know anything about ER possibilities?!?
Just like stockbrokers who don't own yachts, I'm extremely suspicious about financial people who can't figure out how to become financially independent.
I went through a two-year search for a financial planner who could verify my math and shoulder some of my ER angst. It was a bust. Most of the advisors aren't interested in calculating very detailed scenarios. (One of them listened to my parameters over the phone and said "Why not just hold your withdrawal rate under 4% and stop worrying about it?") While you may not have a pension, they'd rather run cookie-cutter scenarios like "70% of your pre-retirement income" and "assume your investments grow at 8%". Others want you to buy their specific financial products while claiming that their share of the 12(b)-1 fees means that they're "fee based".
Here's a couple suggestions:
- Put together a detailed budget of your annual expenses. Take your time on this and be brutally conservative (especially on healthcare). Use the SS website's calculator to get an accurate estimate of your benefits if you ER instead of working to age 62. Look at paying off the mortgage (or not) or rental costs. Other threads here project the costs of new roofs, rising property taxes, replacement appliances/cars, a kid's wedding, a fantasy vacation, etc.
- Once you have that budget, run it through FIRECalc and see how big a portfolio you'd need to achieve an 80% success ratio. Or, to be even more conservative, multiply your annual expenses by 25 to determine your required portfolio size for a 4% withdrawal rate. Anything under a $40K annual budget is a six-figure portfolio.
- Figure out how much (and for how long) you'd have to invest at a 6-7% annual return to achieve the size of that portfolio. Think about part-time work, high-deductible medical insurance, PT lifestyle, cutting back on other expenses, whatever.
If you're still concerned, check your math with the Financial Engines website (it'll cost far less than a financial advisor and it doesn't have sales pressure).
If you must go the human route, try AXA. They have some of the most robust simulation software in the business (although it's arguably no better than Financial Engines). Find the nearest rep and tell them what you want, but be upfront about the possibility of not going through with the whole thing.
They'll give you a free hour's consultation to try to change your mind. Along with an interview on risk profiles, objectives, etc. they'll give you a form requesting a humongous data package. Just the process of finding & organizing all of that data will cause you to check your FIRE assumptions and start making your own calculations. Then, before you go back to the AXA rep's office, you can run your numbers one more time through FIRECalc & Financial Engines before deciding if you want to pay these people.
The $2500 didn't seem worth it. Especially after spending a few months here!
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
Nords,
Your reply to Adventuregirl is a damn fine post. My compliments.
REW
Your reply to Adventuregirl is a damn fine post. My compliments.
REW
Would you consider real estate?I still believe anything is possible
Do you have any savings?
Realistically, when do you want to be ER?
Members of the board have done very well using real estate. Do a forum search and check out earlier posts, Granted its not for everyone but it is an assured way to own something that in 15-25 years would make you completely FI.
Adventuregirl
Recycles dryer sheets
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Thanks everyone for all the great posts! As always I can count on the folks on this board to be encouraging and informative! I feel inspired again...
Nords I'm going to work on your suggestions and see how we come out . I've never done that kind of analysis before so it may be a struggle at first, but I'm sure it gets easier once you know how! Thanks!!! 8)
Adventuregirl
I feel inspired again...Nords I'm going to work on your suggestions and see how we come out . I've never done that kind of analysis before so it may be a struggle at first, but I'm sure it gets easier once you know how! Thanks!!! 8)
Adventuregirl
