Career path for daughter?

Bestwifeever said:
I think the OP should first ask the local high school and nearby colleges for aptitude counseling they offer.. A general aptitude test might be all the OP's daughter needs right now to reassure her that she doesn't need to stress out so much.
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Frankly, there is literally no comparison to a general aptitude test and what Johnson O'Connor does. Even though my son had had lots of testing during the years (he is GT with ADHD and dysgraphia), the testing at Johnson O'Connor was very detailed and quite unique. They tested things in more detail that I haven't seen tested elsewhere. It wasn't just finding out that he had aptitude for science and math (which we knew since he had testing when he was 7). It was breaking down into specific components different aptitudes and finding out which he was good at and which he wasn't.

For example, some people who are good at science aren't particularly good at structural visualization (being able to visualize in 3 dimensions, to rotate a 3 dimensional object). Someone isn't good at that will struggle with something like engineering even if they on paper at good at math and math and science. My son is really good at structural visualization and it goes well with him studying computer science. My daughter on the other hand is not good at structural visualization so a career that doesn't require that ability is better for her.

On this page, Johnson O'Connor has a free download of their ebook on Aptitudes and what each test measures and what it means. Anyone thinking about going there (or just interested in their approach) might find it interesting to read.
 
I agree, figuring out what you are good at and like to do is the key. If it takes 2 years of junior college at home then that can be a successful path to use for getting into a university major. Since she is good at school, college is likely and should be encouraged. Key is to study in a major, and potential career field that she will do well in. BTW, it would be nice if that choice was one with good job hiring and pay statistics.

I would also state the obvious that a choice in career fields at her age is not necessarily what she will end up with. But having that piece of paper with the degree is something that will help out her whole life.
 
Katsmeow said:
Frankly, there is literally no comparison to a general aptitude test and what Johnson O'Connor does. Even though my son had had lots of testing during the years (he is GT with ADHD and dysgraphia), the testing at Johnson O'Connor was very detailed and quite unique. They tested things in more detail that I haven't seen tested elsewhere. It wasn't just finding out that he had aptitude for science and math (which we knew since he had testing when he was 7). It was breaking down into specific components different aptitudes and finding out which he was good at and which he wasn't.

For example, some people who are good at science aren't particularly good at structural visualization (being able to visualize in 3 dimensions, to rotate a 3 dimensional object). Someone isn't good at that will struggle with something like engineering even if they on paper at good at math and math and science. My son is really good at structural visualization and it goes well with him studying computer science. My daughter on the other hand is not good at structural visualization so a career that doesn't require that ability is better for her.

On this page, Johnson O'Connor has a free download of their ebook on Aptitudes and what each test measures and what it means. Anyone thinking about going there (or just interested in their approach) might find it interesting to read.
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The OP's daughter is a junior in high school, your son had already tried out several majors, right? I am just saying it might not be necessary to pull out the big guns at the OP's daughter's age, until she like your son has been exposed to a little more than high school. I am glad your son had good results and is happy.
 
robdwny said:
Thanks everyone all this information is helping out a lot and really setting us on the right path. I'm actually looking into that Johnson O'Connor testing. But the closest one to me is at least 8 hours away.
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Our local community college has a career class that included aptitude testing as a part of the course for no extra fees.

Our kids have both changed majors. I always sent them links on schools, Job Outlook Handbook pages and in demand career articles, and especially Payscale reports by major and college over the years. I think that helped steer them into fields they will both enjoy and have good job prospects. Classes, tutoring, clubs, mentoring from their instructors, mom's links and internships have all helped along the way to sort out their interests. One is still in a bit of flux as to exactly what to do but really has a lot of good options. One problem we struggle with is there is a snooty factor where we live on getting 4 year degrees when we think one kiddo would be very happy, do quite well financially and enjoy the autonomy of a small business in a trade.

I am surprised at how many of their friends graduated from 4 year schools, some quite expensive, with majors in fields they now realize they hate, are underemployed or can't find work at all. A lot of that may have been avoidable with studying the information from the Job Outlook handbook (free and online), career testing if needed and the Payscale reports (also free and online).
 
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Bestwifeever said:
The OP's daughter is a junior in high school, your son had already tried out several majors, right? I am just saying it might not be necessary to pull out the big guns at the OP's daughter's age, until she like your son has been exposed to a little more than high school. I am glad your son had good results and is happy.
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We did it for 2 of our children. We did it for our son -- who was 18 at the time in college (he started college at 16) and for our daughter who was 16 and was a junior in high school at the time. It was also valuable for her.

DS had already wasted a lot of our money taking courses that weren't right for him. For DD obtaining the information before she went to college was extremely valuable as it enabled her to pick what she wanted to study before going and she hasn't changed her program since she started.

So, I would argue that this isactually helps the most (from a financial standpoint anyway) when the student hasn't actually started college yet.

Daylatedollarshort -
Our local community college has a career class that included aptitude testing as a part of the course for no extra fees.
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Most aptitude testing I've seen falls within 2 categories. A lot of it turns out not to be aptitude testing. It is more interest testing, which is useless for aptitude testing (you can be interested in things you aren't good at and vice versa). The other aptitude testing tends to be glorified achievement testing. So, they test your math skills and say you should look at engineering. They don't do things like check spatial visualization. The Johnson O'Conner tests are different from typical achievement testing. Achievement testing has its place (my kids have had it), but it very different than what Johnson O'Connor does.
 
Katsmeow said:
Most aptitude testing I've seen falls within 2 categories. A lot of it turns out not to be aptitude testing. It is more interest testing, which is useless for aptitude testing (you can be interested in things you aren't good at and vice versa). The other aptitude testing tends to be glorified achievement testing. So, they test your math skills and say you should look at engineering. They don't do things like check spatial visualization. The Johnson O'Conner tests are different from typical achievement testing. Achievement testing has its place (my kids have had it), but it very different than what Johnson O'Connor does.
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I don't remember exactly what tests our kid had. Just curious if you have any hard data on the different kinds of tests and which ones have been proven to be the most helpful with actual post college career results? I don't really know. Our kids have had classes and tutoring jobs / internships they loved so it has not been that hard for them to decide.

The Meyers-Briggs has its critics -

Have We all Been Duped by Myers-Briggs?

http://fortune.com/2013/05/15/have-we-all-been-duped-by-the-myers-briggs-test/

"The interesting — and somewhat alarming — fact about the MBTI is that, despite its popularity, it has been subject to sustained criticism by professional psychologists for over three decades. One problem is that it displays what statisticians call low “test-retest reliability.” So if you retake the test after only a five-week gap, there’s around a 50% chance that you will fall into a different personality category compared to the first time you took the test."
 
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I know only that DD, a very good student at traditional academics (which sounds like the OP's daughter) had great results with the testing I mentioned above at her college. She also did this on her own without our help or advice (but of course our support as always) so that may have been helpful for her too, that it was "her" thing. She is very happy in her profession and in her two majors. So is DS, who took no tests. Different things work for different kids, so good there's choices.

I imagine there is data measuring post-college success prediction among the different testings--again, perhaps the high school or a nearby university counseling center could advise.
 
Katsmeow said:
EastWest Gal - Johnson O'Connor doesn't do Myers Briggs. It does 2 full days of aptitude testing. It is way more valuable than Myers Briggs testing (I do think Myers Briggs is interesting as well but that is easily obtainable usually without traveling).
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My bad, wrote down the wrong test name.
 
I haven't looked at these in detail (and can't right now) but here is a page giving some of the recent research of Johnson O'Connor.

Recent Publications and Presentations

They also have some technical reports on another page there that are for sale. I do feel their testing is very research based. Obviously, it isn't free but we felt it was well worth what we paid for it for both of our kids.
 
I remember going to college and having little to no idea what I wanted to do with my life. I opted to go to a small private college that offered a robust amount of liberal arts programs but had a great business school as well. Due to the size of the school a student could double major in almost any 2 fields without much hassle. Ultimately I majored in what I found interesting (law/international politics) and what was practical for the job world (accounting). Accounting helped me get into megacorp for my job, and with that experience I was able to find something within the company that utilized law and finance in a way that I would have never even imagined.
 
Many people advocate for a "gap year" after HS graduation--travel, volunteering, job exploring, etc. Seems reasonable, especially since research is showing the adolescent brain is not fully developed until mid 20's!
my experience: one child went straight to college, the other had a gap year. both doing well.
Try not to pressure her, she will get enough of that from her counselors at school! Give her love and support whatever decisions she makes, she is learning to be independent.
 
pacergal said:
Many people advocate for a "gap year" after HS graduation--travel, volunteering, job exploring, etc. Seems reasonable, especially since research is showing the adolescent brain is not fully developed until mid 20's!

my experience: one child went straight to college, the other had a gap year. both doing well.

Try not to pressure her, she will get enough of that from her counselors at school! Give her love and support whatever decisions she makes, she is learning to be independent.
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I am showing her this page also and we're just slowly discussing it. I try to stay very positive for her I really feel no matter what she does she will do well at it. We are discussing the cost of college I am only funding 4 years of state school. But that does not include room and board so she wants to go away to college but we are trying to discuss what she wants to go for and what that cost would be on her.


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Ha! What a great topic.

I distinctly recall that our kiddos' HS whipped everyone into a frenzy if you hadn't chosen a major (and what you wanted to do for the rest of your life) by the time you entered your junior year. We kind of got swept up in the chatter, and unfortunately added to the panic a bit I'm afraid, at least with the first. I figured all my kids needed a college degree (BS or Masters!), and from a good school, not just any school! Then three of our neighbors (in a very high socioeconomic neighborhood) had children that ended up doing drugs. Two of them spent time in prison (one just got out after 8 years). One is back living at home, not working (I blame the parents for allowing this, but that's another topic). This caused me to completely adjust my worldview in this regard. After that, I wanted children who were A) happy and B) productive members of society. That's it. As long as they were enjoying life and giving as opposed to taking from society, that's all that mattered. Want to be a plumber? Great! Want to get your computer science degree? Great! Want to be a music teacher? Great!

I also encouraged them to enjoy this time in their life - if they chose college (2 of 3 did), then that is the highest amount of freedom with the least responsibility that they would have in their lives, and to completely enjoy it. We supported them as they switched majors, tried new things, and attempted to figure out what they want to do. As others have said, they get plenty of outside pressure from friends, counselors, advertising, society, etc. I think they should find comfort with the parental units, accepting them for what they are, no matter what. Okay, maybe not if they are a drug dealer, but you get the point.
 
pacergal said:
Many people advocate for a "gap year" after HS graduation--travel, volunteering, job exploring, etc. Seems reasonable, especially since research is showing the adolescent brain is not fully developed until mid 20's!
my experience: one child went straight to college, the other had a gap year. both doing well.
Try not to pressure her, she will get enough of that from her counselors at school! Give her love and support whatever decisions she makes, she is learning to be independent.
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gap year? what's that like? that's what wrong with this generation, they should be in school right off the bat taking 19 hours like I did

:mad:


although one of my buddies daughters is taking a gap year and I told him it was a good idea :eek:
 
I'm late to this party, but I was VERY much like your daughter. I was an excellent student in high school, was very active, had broad interests, and absolutely no idea what I would study in college.

I ended up at a state university on an academic scholarship (after a year abroad as an exchange student). This university had a program called the University Exploratory Studies Program. It was a program that allowed you to take any class at the University without declaring a major. You did eventually have to declare a major, but you got to try out a lot of different subjects first. The real beauty of this program was that if you were UESP enrolled you could take all classes at the University that you were qualified to take, even if you were a non-major and the class was for majors only.

It was fantastic. I got to take a ton of interesting classes; the program provided a counselor to work with me so that I kept my academic options open (they actually said this -- "let's talk about taking classes that keep your options open") and at the end of my two years in UESP I was able to declare a major that worked very well for me -- and graduated in that major with two minors and a certificate that I would never have discovered without the program.

As your daughter looks at colleges, you may ask to see if any have a program like this. Many people use community colleges for this approach, but that wasn't the right choice for me -- our local community college didn't have the academic breadth or depth that I really needed at that time.

Here's a link to the program I went through: UESP Home | University Exploratory Studies Program | Oregon State University

By the way ... I don't work in the field I majored in. My major was useful, but the real gift of college is the gift of exposure to new ideas, new people, and the development of my critical thinking skills and sense of the world.
 
Tell her this story:

My BIL got an undergraduate degree in microbiology from an Ivy league school, where he met my sister. He started grad school in microbiology, became a professor's assistant as part of that program, and loved teaching so much that he got his Masters degree in Education instead.

Fast forward 20 years: he is now the principal of a high school. (And, yes, he did teach for a number of years in between, but still....).
 
My sister and I were products of public schools in a middle size city, and we both went to the same state university in the '60's and '70's. My mother went to work to put us through college, and we never thought about taking out a student loan.

The students of today don't have the luxury of having $192.50 per semester tuition. We could screw up, change majors, take 6 years to get out and it was no big deal. I was also trying to stay two steps in front of the draft board as I had no desire to be walking point in Vietnam for the U.S. Army Infantry.

Kids today don't have the options we had. With better private colleges costing $55K per year per student and public university tuition around $10K, ole Mom's going to be going financially backward trying to bankroll Billy and Betsy's college career.

Students without any idea of their future vocation need to go into a general curriculum for the first two years--and then it's decision time. When Mom's sweating bullets to pay $900 tuition for that Music Appreciation class (public college), there's no time for the student to meander through the different departments.

As you can tell, I'm not a fan of student loans. My best friend put 2 kids through top private primary and secondary schools ($400K), and then put the pair through fancy universities in The East--$450K. And that's after taxes. The daughter went to Houston to be a physician, and she graduated this week. The son, come to find out midway through college, was a Sociology/Criminology major. Since the Army's OCS classes are inactive, he went into the Army as an E-4 and is now a Ranger being deployed to an unknown location on May 10th. My best friend after bankrolling all of the education sold his big house, and is now renting. All of his friends are retiring, and leaving my buddy working into his late '60's.

I always felt it was my duty to provide my children a decent education through college--like my parents did for me. I never felt it was my duty to put them in the absolutely top private schools while not saving enough money to comfortably retire. I did fine in the business world, and played the stock market successfully. I really thing I would have been happier as an IBEW electrician, however.
 
Bamaman said:
...........
Students without any idea of their future vocation need to go into a general curriculum for the first two years--and then it's decision time. .........
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No, students without any idea of their future vocation need to go to work. Whether that be at Walmart, Starbucks or NASA, they will learn some life skills and when they know what they want to do, they may work a bit harder at achieving that goal.
 
Rick_Head said:
No, students without any idea of their future vocation need to go to work. Whether that be at Walmart, Starbucks or NASA, they will learn some life skills and when they know what they want to do, they may work a bit harder at achieving that goal.
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I would say the same thing if they didn't step up on the core courses and do reasonably well. I worked my way thru college counting cans in grocery stores (inventory) and as a lifeguard at the university pool complex. But $2.00 an hour wouldn't go very far with current prices of everything.

But I'm a strong believer that someone will be a better person working their way through college--even if it takes 6-8 years. I wouldn't wish $25K in student loans on anyone. I really hate to see $300K student loans that dentists and physicans often run up. One friend was a Radiologist, and he finally got his loans paid at age 50. No thank you.
 
Rick_Head said:
No, students without any idea of their future vocation need to go to work. Whether that be at Walmart, Starbucks or NASA, they will learn some life skills and when they know what they want to do, they may work a bit harder at achieving that goal.
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Hogwash. Most kids who go to any liberal arts college get a degree in something not what they started out thinking they might major in and plenty start without any idea. They figure it out along the way.

Would you really tell your kid they need to be a barista all the lives if they can't make up their mind when they enroll?



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Would I tell my kid to be a barrista? No, would I tell my kid (s)he shouldn't be an electrition or plumber? Also no.

Why get a Liberal Arts degree with a huge debt if a skilled trade is for you. A parent's dream, perhaps?
 
the real gift of college is the gift of exposure to new ideas, new people, and the development of my critical thinking skills and sense of the world.

+1
 
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