Dad of New Liberal Arts (International Studies) Grad - Need Advice - Daughter Conside

[oscar1]

Man! I need y'all's advice. Daughter graduates from Texas A&M in International Studies and is seriously considering hourly position at Disney over salaried positions elsewhere where better pay, benefits, 401k, etc could be had. We are talking about $15k per year vs. $45k per year for entry level position. That's a $350,000 delta over 30 years. I can't get her to realize the impact this decision will make on her life, her family, early retirement, etc.? I am freaking out! Any advice anyone can offer??!


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[MooreBonds]

Man! I need y'all's advice. Daughter graduates from Texas A&M in International Studies and is seriously considering hourly position at Disney over salaried positions elsewhere where better pay, benefits, 401k, etc could be had. We are talking about $15k per year vs. $45k per year for entry level position. That's a $350,000 delta over 30 years. I can't get her to realize the impact this decision will make on her life, her family, early retirement, etc.? I am freaking out! Any advice anyone can offer??!

Ask to see the budget she has in mind that she will be living with in her position at Disney. And ask her how she sees the pros and cons of each position, and where she sees it leading to other opportunities down the road.

 

[rodi]

I could see it if she was going into one of the management/finance/sales positions... A friend's son (Stanford graduate) worked for Disneyland for several years after graduation. But he was in a professional position - full benefits.

What will she be doing for Disney?

Disney isn't know for high pay... My husband was offered a job, decades ago, to do architecture associated with Euro Disney. It involved him moving from Philly to LA **AND** taking a $20k/year pay cut. He asked if they were high... they responded that everyone wanted to work for Disney so they didn't have to pay the going rate. He declined the position.

 

[travelover]

One only gets part of their education in school. Maybe she needs to do a little internship in Reality 101.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I wouldn't worry so much just yet. The Disney job is probably not a forever kind of job. I'd just make it clear if she has other higher offers she is not taking or hasn't applied for higher paying jobs, you won't be making up any shortfalls in her budget.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

One only gets part of their education in school. Maybe she needs to do a little internship in Reality 101.

Exactly. With at least on of our kids the less than $15 an hour summer and part-time jobs job in college has done wonders for the GPA and desire to move on to something more financially rewarding after college.

But if she can be happy and self supporting on the Disney job who is to say that is the wrong choice for her at her young age.

 

[mike143]

Did you support (financially) her degree choice?

New Study: Is No Degree Better Than A Liberal Arts Degree? - Forbes

If you did, now you reap what you sow.

"I helped you with your education, you are on your own now."

How did she get to a point to think she can live on $15k a year?

In early 2000's I was an assistant manager for Eastman Kodak at Kennedy Space Center Visitors Complex, the annoying people that haggle you to take your picture at theme establishments. Even at that time it paid $21k a year and I still lived with my mother. I couldn't imaging living on $15k a year. Maybe she can marry money.

I have an acquaintance that makes similar poor choices due to being enabled by parents.

 

[MRG]

Is she supporting herself? If not, make sure you're not helping/enabling her. Make sure she's safe and has insurance, but she doesn't have to know.

Past that living in a less desirable neighborhood and eating liverwhurst and onion twice a day for a year or so will make her much more willing to look at alternatives.

I'm just telling you what I had to go through. Your daughter is probably a lot smarter than me.

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[daylatedollarshort]

Four young adults sharing rent in a 4 bedroom rental house making $30K each a year is $120K total household income, or more than twice the median household income in the U.S. (without kids or a mortgage).

 

[MooreBonds]

Four young adults sharing rent in a 4 bedroom rental house making $30K each a year is $120K total household income, or more than twice the median household income in the U.S. (without kids or a mortgage).

True - but not only is she making just $15k/year instead of $30k, but a 'housesharing arrangement' has far more duplication than savings:

Health Insurance - adding a spouse or additional dependents is less than having your own policy. For premiums as well as deductibles.

Transportation - I doubt that household of 4 is sharing 1 vehicle. A household income of $60k/year could afford a vehicle. I doubt someone earning $15k/year can afford a car and car insurance.

Savings - you're not going to save on $15k/year. A HI of $60k could eek out some.

 

[mike143]

3 meals per day, $5 per meal, 365 days a year equals roughly $5,500 per year. Let say you can split rent and all utilities for $500 per person a month, so $6,000 a year. Lets say a car payment of $350 per month, insurance of $150 per month, gas of $100 per month for a total of $600 per month, so $7,200 per year. We are going to assume vehicle maintenance will be ignore so vehicle will be replaced and in a continuous cycle of payments. A monthly cellular bill of $100 per month for $1,200 per year. Lets go on the low end of a young persons entertainment/clothing budget of $400 per month for $4,800 per year. So we are at $5,500 + $6,000 + $7,200 + $1,200 + $4,800 = $24,700. We still haven't accounted for taxes, health insurance cost, savings/401k, etc, etc.

I had to learn all this the hard way. I wish someone beat me in the head with this information.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

True - but not only is she making just $15k/year instead of $30k, but a 'housesharing arrangement' has far more duplication than savings:

Health Insurance - adding a spouse or additional dependents is less than having your own policy. For premiums as well as deductibles.

Transportation - I doubt that household of 4 is sharing 1 vehicle. A household income of $60k/year could afford a vehicle. I doubt someone earning $15k/year can afford a car and car insurance.

Savings - you're not going to save on $15k/year. A HI of $60k could eek out some.

If she works full time $15 an hour X 2000 hours is $30K. Depending on where she lives she may not even need a car. Most college kids certainly get by on living on less than $30K a year not counting tuition and books.

 

[LOL!]

Just wish her your best. I doubt she will last, but if she does, more power to her.

 

[MRG]

If she works full time $15 an hour X 2000 hours is $30K. Depending on where she lives she may not even need a car. Most college kids certainly get by on living on less than $30K a year not counting tuition and books.

Yes that math is correct. The OP said 15k a year not $15 an hour.

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[Chuckanut]

It's her life and it's not the end of the world. Compared to something like having a baby with the boyfriend from h%!#!l, it's not that bad. Nothing that can't be reversed.

 

[sengsational]

If she is anything like my daughter, you can't do anything about it anyway, except, as mentioned above, resist the temptation to enable her. I'm hoping that by the time my liberal arts daughter gets to the end of her 4 year degree, she decides to get a masters in something where she can earn a living.

 

[haha]

It's her life and it's not the end of the world. Compared to something like having a baby with the boyfriend from h%!#!l, it's not that bad. Nothing that can't be reversed.

This is certainly true. Both of my sons were a parent's delight, and still are. But boy this is not par for the course. I have a 20 something relative who doesn't have the sense to choose detox and rehab over prison. His sister, a stunningly beautiful girl just had to cheat on her very successful and ambitious husband with some lowlife who lives in a basement apartment in the wrong part of town. Unsurprisingly, husband decided that he is an attractive enough package to not have to put up with this. His former wife now lives depressed, in the lightless basement apartment.

If one's child can stay off heroin and cocaine, and make even halfway reasonable sex/romance choices, the rest if it is likely to come. And if it doesn't, so called poverty in America isn't half bad. I had a conversation with an extremely happy man on the bus today, who sells Real Change and gets what dole he or his girlfriend can get. He has a patio apartment, and a grill, and a bunch of grand kids all local.He is having Christmas guests over for barbecued ribs. I watched him almost bounce up the street when he got off the bus.

Avoid hard drugs, use alcohol sparingly, don't get HIV and work on keeping spirits up. In America, this tends to work out. I rode a bus downtown today with a holocaust survivor who lost her entire family in Eastern Europe in the Nazi years, She also is a big fan of America.

Ha

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Yes that math is correct. The OP said 15k a year not $15 an hour.

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Ooops. My bad. $15K is a lot harder to pull off, but 4 young adults sharing a a house would still be $60K total household income. Many people get by on much less. We have members here living happily with very low expenses.

On the MMM forum, it is almost a badge of honor to have the lowest possible expenses and none of them seem to be starving. Many just keep on living like college kids, post college.

 

[aaronc879]

Ooops. My bad. $15K is a lot harder to pull off, but 4 young adults sharing a a house would still be $60K total household income. Many people get by on much less. We have members here living happily with very low expenses.

On the MMM forum, it is almost a badge of honor to have the lowest possible expenses and none of them seem to be starving. Many just keep on living like college kids, post college.

2014 my expenses will be the highest ever at around $17,500. That includes taxes. I don't consider it a 'badge of honor' to keep my expenses the lowest possible I just don't want to work more than I have to so I keep my expenses down so I don't need to save as much to FIRE. I lived on slightly less than $15K/yr for 2011-2013 so I know it can be done. I live alone, own a car, and eat 2500+ calories a day so I have room to cut my expenses by at least a couple grand/yr. I assume that she would be working at the Disney in Florida where there is no state income tax. That means she would pay virtually no income taxes so she'd have around $15,000/yr to spend. Get 1 roommate and that is definitely doable. Chances are she would quickly move into a higher paying job but she'd be ok even if she doesn't. Enjoying your job is priceless.

 

[dallas27]

Let her be twenty.


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[MBAustin]

DD also graduated with an international studies degree (although from a small liberal arts college). Her talents are in writing, editing (can you say grammar nazi?), design, music, and photography. (She told us that she was much more prepared for real world writing from her major than her English major friends.)

She had a couple of un- or barely-paid internships before she landed a job doing communications for a nonprofit a few months after graduating . After 2 years she decided to go the freelance route and is figuring it out. This week she realized she can't afford her apartment and is taking steps to "downsize" so she doesn't end up in credit card debt. Can't ask for much more in a 25-year old.

We do pay her cellphone bill and helped with health insurance the first year but she hasn't yet made $25K in a year and that works for her.

I would stick to asking her what's important to her and answering any financial questions she has and let her live her life. At least she isn't asking to move back home while she figures things out (which happened to a friend 4 years ago - her son is still basically unemployed and a mooch).


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[MooreBonds]

On the MMM forum, it is almost a badge of honor to have the lowest possible expenses and none of them seem to be starving. Many just keep on living like college kids, post college.

I know nothing about the OP's daughter...but just using probabilities, I'm willing to wager that she's not the type that would count herself among the MMM-types that have a badge of honor in buying lentils in bulk and walking everywhere and being proud of buying items on craigslist or the thrift store. The OP's daughter may end up having to resort to that, but the 'average' 20-something consumer would not opt for that as an ideal choice.

 

[splitwdw]

oscar1, A lot of the people on this forum worked at jobs they hated. Maybe the job will make her happy and she won't need/want to retire early. A few even live on $15,000. a year. How did she end up taking "International Studies"?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I know nothing about the OP's daughter...but just using probabilities, I'm willing to wager that she's not the type that would count herself among the MMM-types that have a badge of honor in buying lentils in bulk and walking everywhere and being proud of buying items on craigslist or the thrift store. The OP's daughter may end up having to resort to that, but the 'average' 20-something consumer would not opt for that as an ideal choice.

You mean some people don't like lentils, walking and thrift store shopping? Those are some of my favorite things.

 

[Major Tom]

Let her be twenty.

I think there is great wisdom in this reply

- and of course, I always enjoy reading Ha's comments.