Dad of New Liberal Arts (International Studies) Grad - Need Advice - Daughter Conside

[38Chevy454]

Sorry to say, but a liberal arts "International Studies" major was a waste of your money for college, if you paid for it. Even not working at Disney for $15K, double that money at $30K is not really any more than she could have been making without a college degree if she applied herself for 4 years at any type of company. All I can say is don't keep supporting her bad decisions and maybe reality will make her wise up. $15K is essentially minimum wage. I earned more than minimum wage even while in high school, not a lot more, but did this without even a high school diploma at the time.

Yes, I am a hardass and not sympathetic for anyone that does not get a degree with some real world value. International studies is one example of those without value.

 

[Katsmeow]

Oscar1 - I think you are catastrophizing this situation more than you need to. This is her first job out of college. It doesn't doom her to low paying jobs for the entirety of her career.

I would focus on seeing if you could go over budget with her and help her to figure out a way to make it work if she goes down that path (a key factor is probably going to be a roommate). She may well try this and find out she doesn't like living on $15k a year. And, she may leave the job or work hard to progress to a higher paid job. Or perhaps she will love it and be happy with it.

The main thing is that she has to live this and support herself without you making up the difference.

My oldest son quit college after his first semester. I had no problem with him choosing not to get a bachelor's degree but thought he would be better off going to CC and going through a career oriented program. But, he didn't want to.

He did have a few rough years, making very little. I know there was a time when he lived in his car a few weeks and he stayed with a friend for months one time. We mostly let him handle it (we did help him with a vehicle when his died). And, yet, 4 years later it seems to have worked out and he has a good job now. He did it his way and he is happy with it.

 

[Rick_Head]

Man! I need y'all's advice. Daughter graduates from Texas A&M in International Studies and is seriously considering hourly position at Disney over salaried positions elsewhere where better pay, benefits, 401k, etc could be had. We are talking about $15k per year vs. $45k per year for entry level position. That's a $350,000 delta over 30 years. I can't get her to realize the impact this decision will make on her life, her family, early retirement, etc.? I am freaking out! Any advice anyone can offer??!


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

Any advice? Well.

1) Try the [-]math[/-] arithmetic again. 45-15 = 30. 30K*30 years is 900K, not 350K
2) 15K is better than 0K. Has she had $45K offers or are you estimating?
3) The impact of this decision will be on her life. She has to make it. If she doesn't like the result she can change jobs.

 

[Dd852]

Dad of New Liberal Arts (International Studies) Grad - Need Advice - Daughter...

I think you simply need to chill and try to understand the real reasons why she wants to do this:
Is there a romance involved?
Is she scared of a career path ?
Does she want to hang on to the college feeling longer?
Is she Peter Pan? (Don't want to grow up)
Does she want to work in tourism/hospitality and she sees this as a good way in?
Etc

Set boundaries around what you will continue to do for her and then let her experiment. Show your strong support and love but don't let that translate into being the bankroll.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[imoldernu]

We used to call this "sowing wild oats". Not to worrry.

"It's a phase you generally get out of your way when you're young or perhaps after a breakup, but it's not a long-term lifestyle (or if it is, it stops going by that name at some point"

 

[oscar1]

This blog never fails to exceed its value with incredible people like you all providing expert advice. The budget drill is great advice because she is already familiar with Dad's exposure to this important concept on several occasions. I also very much needed to hear many of you say; "let her be 20". I did have my math wrong (think I intended 10 years with some compounding). Great feedback and I appreciate everyone helping point me straight.

 

[clifp]

I wanted to work for Disney and I would have accepted a modest pay cut to work there.
I think it looks fine on a resume for somebody with International Studies degree, Disney is truly international brand and I would guess virtually any job in the company would have international aspect to it.

That said $15K is barely over the poverty line and I think it is perfectly fine as Dad to point that "I've been poor and I've been middle/upper middle class/rich more money is better."

A little more details about the jobs would help us give you better advices.

What is the Disney job? is it full time (a min wage jobs would be $15K a year) so maybe its part time.

These 45K/year jobs does she have one more offers, or are this potential jobs.

 

[mike143]

Let her be twenty.

I think there is great wisdom in this reply

- and of course, I always enjoy reading Ha's comments.

I wish I had a positive motivator from birth to probably my mid to late 20s. I had to learn the slow hard way. Now in my early thirties I feel like the wise one to my elders.

My child will not escape the indoctrination of my financial knowledge.

 

[PokerGrumpy]

Most of you are trying to apply logic and analysis to a person who is clearly not interested in a logical decision. She is still operating with the college mentality where she is sheltered from the realities of life. Does she have student loans? Does she consider the "Bank of Mom and Dad" to be open to her all the time? It's OK to be a safety net but you don't want that to turn into a hammock.


But that's not what I was going to say.


Now she has two offers on the table, one for $15K and one for $45K. She is starting as a college graduate with a clean slate and no employment history. That's the way that offers come when you are new to the job market. If she takes the $15K job and decides to then go after a $45K job she won't be doing it as a college graduate. She will be doing it as someone already in the workforce. When she tells her prospective employer that she is currently making $15K she will either disqualify herself or will get an offer of $30K to $35K if she is lucky.

This is the voice of experience talking. When I graduated from college the only position I could get with my degree in Computer Science was at a low salary at the school where I graduated. That kept my earnings depressed from 1973 to 1978 at which time my salary finally got to where it belonged. I figure that cost me about $20K over that period of time which isn't so much now but back then it was huge.

 

[mystang52]

Anything about the Disney job that might be a foot-in-the-door for a better promotion down the road? Maybe that's her motivation.

 

[Hermit]

My daughter has a liberal arts degree. Her specialization is theater lighting. She has been working for about 2 1/2 years. She puts in long hours and loves her work. She makes somewhat less than $30,000 a year and has a year's expenses saved plus she contributes to an IRA. She and a coworker put on a pregame light show at the local arena that was shown on the local news. Quite a few of the kids she went to college with went to Disney to work. For them, it is a good resume builder. Success is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[Major Tom]

My child will not escape the indoctrination of my financial knowledge.

Be careful not to overdo the indoctrination or you might scare your child off, and end up causing an opposite result to the one you want!

The reason I agreed with what may appear to have been such a laissez-faire answer from dallas27 is that, as I stated, I think there was wisdom in his answer. It is obvious that oscar1 is at least fairly sensible about money issues as well as being concerned about his daughter's financial future. By the time she went off to college, the parenting "groundwork" would already have been laid. At that age, you can have a conversation with your kids, but to whatever extent they are set on following their path, they will follow it.

Also, as other posts have mentioned, there may well be good, solid reasons why she should take a lower paying job, such as resume building, or relevant experience. In the absence of specific information, board members have been attempting to fill in the gaps.

As far as your intended indoctrination goes, you may not need to take such draconian measures, as kids are very good at following by example - or rebelling against the example set for them, depending on what other factors are in play

 

[MichaelB]

I can't get her to realize the impact this decision will make on her life, her family, early retirement, etc.? I am freaking out! Any advice anyone can offer??!

Did she ask for your advice or was she just letting you know her situation and intentions?

 

[braumeister]

Ran across this tidbit and thought it was interesting.

As a large research university, Texas A&M boasts more than 120 degree programs for students to choose from. Its College of Liberal Arts—having secured the final spot on our list—even has the highest four-year graduation rate of all the Texas A&M colleges. Top-notch students stand to earn about $42,823 per year at their first jobs.

15 Colleges with the Highest Salaries for Liberal Arts Grads - NerdScholar

 

[MooreBonds]

Now she has two offers on the table, one for $15K and one for $45K. She is starting as a college graduate with a clean slate and no employment history. That's the way that offers come when you are new to the job market. If she takes the $15K job and decides to then go after a $45K job she won't be doing it as a college graduate. She will be doing it as someone already in the workforce. When she tells her prospective employer that she is currently making $15K she will either disqualify herself or will get an offer of $30K to $35K if she is lucky.

^^^ This.

It's not JUST "$15k vs $45k" in this job....but EVERY job down the road. One can make a change with a significant increase in salary - but in both this economy as well as past job history, that's the EXCEPTION, not the rule!

It's true that she'll have at least some job experience under her belt - but so will all of the other people applying for that job! Far better to be a fresh new grad with just 1-2 years experience at the other job at a higher salary vs having "Dressed up as Donald Duck at Disney world for 2 years at $8/hr". It's true that some people have had to resort to a myriad of jobs outside their major in this economy, but when she does go for that job paying $45k next, she'll be competing against many others. And, like it or not, I would expect more than just a few hiring managers looking at a minimum wage job at anywhere on a resume and think less of someone compared to a fresh grad straight out of college. Subconsciously or not, the implication is that she couldn't find any other job given her talents, even if it's not the case. Plus, they might also think "Ah, she took a min. wage job at Disney", and also might question her maturity level. Not saying that she's immature, but the implication to a few managers (in the "old school" mindset) might be "she doesn't have any business sense, and is just looking for anything that sounds "fun", rather than making the company money".

 

[Niuatoputapu]

Let her be twenty.

+1 Agree fully. I left college and went right into a corporate job. Within a year I went stir crazy and joined the Peace Corps instead. Best two years of my life. Not quite Disney Land, but close. I wish her luck.

 

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

That's just Goofy... Sorry. But my very intelligent DD with a 4 yr paid scholarship dropped out and eventually took a job where 'she could use a highlighter '. 15 years later, she is still not making much money! but she loves the company and her job and is part owner... Their lives are not ours to decide. If I look back on my own career path, there was not much going on when I was 20, ok, I really can't remember that far back..but things didn't click for me until my 30's

 

[Walt34]

It's her life and it's not the end of the world. Compared to something like having a baby with the boyfriend from h%!#!l, it's not that bad. Nothing that can't be reversed.

Let her be twenty.

Agreed this is a "first job out of college and it's fun" and if she has an ounce of sense she knows that. And at her age it doesn't matter much and she probably knows that too.

It could end well though. A nephew who graduated with two masters degrees, one in music and I forget the other, took a minimum wage job at Disney running a ride "just because that was something he always wanted to do". My sister raised an eyebrow but sensibly remained quiet.

He's still at Disney, but not running rides, no sireebob. He is in management and it doing very, very well for himself and having a ball as well.

So it is not the end of the world for her and she is not condemned to a lifetime of poverty.

Oh, and the last three times we went to Disney World we didn't have to pay to get in.

 

[MooreBonds]

It could end well though. A nephew who graduated with two masters degrees, one in music and I forget the other, took a minimum wage job at Disney running a ride "just because that was something he always wanted to do". My sister raised an eyebrow but sensibly remained quiet.

He's still at Disney, but not running rides, no sireebob. He is in management and it doing very, very well for himself and having a ball as well.

So it is not the end of the world for her and she is not condemned to a lifetime of poverty.

At that rate, you might as well cite a story about your friend that won the lottery, and didn't have to worry about their job making minimum wage at 7-11 anymore.

I'm willing to bet a vast majority of the people that start out as a full-time job working at Disney at minimum wage probably never move very far up the income ladder. And obviously there are more things to life than money - but it can be a very critical choice for a first job, as it can have far more far-reaching implications on future jobs as well, as I noted in my previous post.

It makes me wonder why she never considered this as a summer job, unless she had a job elsewhere, and/or was in summer school? What types of jobs did she have during the summer? (or even in the winter between semesters?)

You do have to be careful how you approach this topic to not drive her away but rather make sure she is aware of the financial realities...but at the same time, will the OP be feeling nervous/frustrated/regretful when the inevitable fiscal issue comes up that far overwhelms her $15k annual salary, be it a medical issue, or some other fiscal calamity? $2,000 for 3 car repairs over 8 months. $3,500 deductible for a medical issue. $350 to fix a speeding ticket. $1,200 for 3 plane tickets/year to fly home to visit the parents, since she obviously can't afford $400 tickets all the time.

The OP will obviously be the one bailing her out and likely making another financial sacrifice - so you have to also accept this reality, since it's highly doubtful you will let her suffer in misery when you have the financial means to help her out. And how do you tell her "I will only help you out for so long, or for $x, then you're on your own" - when it will likely be a long time before she's financially independent enough to not need the bank of dad?

 

[Brat]

When I graduated from college I had a number of offers. Mom asked me what my work life goals were and I evaluated those opportunities in light of those goals.

As others have mentioned, there are all kinds of jobs at Disney and so many young people want to work for them they can hire talent at the minimum wage. I would ask my daughter to consider this job opportunity in light of her career goals and to prepare a budget.

 

[Lakewood90712]

One question , Would this be her very first paid job ?

Now as to The Walt Disney co.

Have quite a few acquaintances who do, or have worked for them , at the theme parks and a few others who were at an NHL franchise, back when W.D. owned them.

A couple of high level ( an atty. in sports, and a manager in security ) and the rest hourly. Disney treats hourly employees about as well as the pay, disposable. Good for a part time thing as a teenager only.

The two salary folks I knew eventually left , neither could take the "Must Call the Mother Ship" before any decisions, way the company works.

They do have good perks, some surprisingly low level employees on salary got co. cars

 

[Texas Proud]

Oscar1 - I think you are catastrophizing this situation more than you need to. This is her first job out of college. It doesn't doom her to low paying jobs for the entirety of her career.

I would focus on seeing if you could go over budget with her and help her to figure out a way to make it work if she goes down that path (a key factor is probably going to be a roommate). She may well try this and find out she doesn't like living on $15k a year. And, she may leave the job or work hard to progress to a higher paid job. Or perhaps she will love it and be happy with it.

The main thing is that she has to live this and support herself without you making up the difference.

My oldest son quit college after his first semester. I had no problem with him choosing not to get a bachelor's degree but thought he would be better off going to CC and going through a career oriented program. But, he didn't want to.

He did have a few rough years, making very little. I know there was a time when he lived in his car a few weeks and he stayed with a friend for months one time. We mostly let him handle it (we did help him with a vehicle when his died). And, yet, 4 years later it seems to have worked out and he has a good job now. He did it his way and he is happy with it.

Not sure what kind of companies hire her degree.... but it could hinder her later in life... IOW, a year later if she decides to try and get a job.... she will be competing with the kids coming out of college now.... who would you want to hire Someone who chose to go to Disney and make $15K or someone who just graduated with good grades and is raring to get to work for you.... I know which one I would hire...

Also, she is now at least one year behind her peers.... it might not matter, but it also might... now it seems you can derail a career before it gets off the ground... I have a niece who is a lawyer and has a hard time finding a permanent job because of some of the decisions she made just out of college.... and that was 10 years ago....

 

[target2019]

Man! I need y'all's advice. Daughter graduates from Texas A&M in International Studies and is seriously considering hourly position at Disney over salaried positions elsewhere where better pay, benefits, 401k, etc could be had. We are talking about $15k per year vs. $45k per year for entry level position. That's a $350,000 delta over 30 years. I can't get her to realize the impact this decision will make on her life, her family, early retirement, etc.? I am freaking out! Any advice anyone can offer??!

Step 1 - Remind her that the gravy train stops when she takes any job.
Step 2 - Ask her to build a spreadsheet which lists her expenses after she gets off the train.
Step 3 - After she comes to her senses, stop making her decisions. Help her understand that the next choice is hers alone.

 

[Niuatoputapu]

Not sure what kind of companies hire her degree.... but it could hinder her later in life... IOW, a year later if she decides to try and get a job.... she will be competing with the kids coming out of college now.... who would you want to hire Someone who chose to go to Disney and make $15K or someone who just graduated with good grades and is raring to get to work for you.... I know which one I would hire...

I agree with Texas Proud that one's decision about where to work after graduation may impact some future Hiring Manager's assessment of your daughter. However, that may not be so bad. I would rather work for someone (some company) who was impressed by my Peace Corps experience rather than someone who thought it was a waste of time.

 

[redduck]

... who would you want to hire Someone who chose to go to Disney and make $15K or someone who just graduated with good grades and is raring to get to work for you.... I know which one I would hire...
....

The one with the big ta-tas?