"Exceptional costs of exceptional kids" (or: blowing your retirement on a cello)

[FinanceDude]

Re: "Exceptional costs of exceptional kids" (or: blowing your retirement on a cello)

Indeed. The most telling passage in the article was the mother's reaction to the recommendation to purchase adequate term life insurance:

"Lea cringes at this advice, confessing a fatalistic distain for life insurance. 'If I'm alive, we're on track,' she says. 'I die, it's over. They better become waitresses.'"

Really sad. With an attitude like that, she has no business being a parent.

He's an idiot! As a start, how about $1 million in term insurance for him, and $500,000 or so for her? At least they could maintain their lifestyle without having to get remarried for "economic reasons"...........

 

[Milton]

Re: "Exceptional costs of exceptional kids" (or: blowing your retirement on a cello)

Here we go again, doing what we do best: disapproving of how others choose to live their lives.

I for one don't feel any guilt regarding my disapproval. After all, they are the ones who choose to be profiled in a widely-published magazine.

 

[OKLibrarian]

Re: "Exceptional costs of exceptional kids" (or: blowing your retirement on a ce

I for one don't feel any guilt regarding my disapproval. After all, they are the ones who choose to be profiled in a widely-published magazine.

I would say I'm a bit surprised that anyone would choose to air that kind of thing in the national media, but I stopped being shocked by that type of exhibition around the time Jerry Springer became a hit.

Then again...they might be hoping they could use their tale to convince some schmoe to write them checks to support the gals' musical careers. *shrug*

 

[Milton]

Re: "Exceptional costs of exceptional kids" (or: blowing your retirement on a ce

I don't think these folks are crazy with the music stuff, (it's no worse than the high investment doctors and lawyers have to make to get into their business).

Not a very persuasive argument analogy, really.

The difference is that one can be a competent-but-mediocre doctor or lawyer and make quite a decent living. In music (or professional sports, acting, or other 'entertainment' occupations), there are a few highly-paid jobs for the very very best, and the bottom 98% starve. Technology has allowed such people to leverage their products ... it's not like it was 100+ years ago, when every small city supported its own professional orchestra, several vaudeville houses, etc.

 

[Sue J]

Re: "Exceptional costs of exceptional kids" (or: blowing your retirement on a ce

Makes the house sound great (glad he didn't like the drums).

We have a drummer! At about 4 years old he showed interest in the drums. His grandfather bought him a toy drum set (it's ok, he asked us first). Our son could actually make that plastic drum set sound a little like music. So at age 8 we started him with a drum teacher. They started with a practice pad and a set of sticks and a basic book. Three months later the teacher told us he was ready for a real drum set. We were pretty surprised, didn't think he'd progress that fast. We could see he was enjoying this and doing well, but I know how fast some kids lose interest so we looked around and found a used drum set for him. It's an old Rogers jazz kit from the 60's, if any of you are drummers. Having a real set of drums allowed him to really blossom as a drummer. I never minded the noise although we had to put an evening time limit on it to stay friendly with the neighbors.

By age 14 he felt he had outgrown his used drum set and wanted a new drum set. He had some savings so we split this with him, it was about $1500 and then anything else he needed he would buy on his own.

We continued with the drum lessons until he was about 16, when the music store closed and he just felt like he was done. He didn't need to be pushed to practice, he always played just because he loved it and would integrate the practices into whatever he was playing.

From being a drummer he branched out to doing recordings, buying professional mics and mixers and recording himself alone or with friends in a band. He had worked the sound board on his high school stage crew and from there got a job with the Ohio Ballet and worked as their sound operator for their summer tour (local) at age 18. Then he worked in a sound and lighting company.

He's now in college majoring in Technical Theatre (Sound, Lighting, Rigging) and he's also the Sound Chairman on the Production Board of a local community playhouse.

Back to what it costs.... In our area, his drum lessons were about $12 a week. When they raised the price I asked my son to help pay the cost. We could afford it, I just wanted him to have a bit of ownership in the process.

I don't know if he'll ever make any money playing the drums. He's very good, but he likes to play for himself, or with friends, not for an audience. He was not interested in any of the bands in high school.

For him it's just for the enjoyment of playing. It's a great creative outlet and stress reliever.

I believe that parents should support their child's activites. And kids should be able to try different things without having to make a long term commitment. Our drummer also played soccer, basketball, baseball and golf at different times. Some things he enjoyed and continued the following summer, sometimes he just wanted to play the drums.

 

[OKLibrarian]

Re: "Exceptional costs of exceptional kids" (or: blowing your retirement on a ce

Sue,

Your son sounds a lot like my little bro (the piano prodigy i mentioned a few pages back) and it sounds like you did a lot of the same things my parents did with him. My brother played (about a half-dozen instruments) in high school band, and likes playing keyboards with jazz/funk bands locally, but has been known to quit groups because they're getting "too big to be fun". Definitely not an "I wanna be famous" guy--his big dream is to quit engineering, move to seattle and become a session musician for other groups once SIL finishes grad school and can support them. I doubt he much more than breaks even on his "hobby", but I also doubt he cares.

 

[Milton]

Related reading:

Money Magazine: What you owe your kids - Feb. 5, 2008

 

[Calgary_Girl]

I believe that parents should support their child's activites. And kids should be able to try different things without having to make a long term commitment. quote]

I agree, but at what cost? Would you have bought your son a real drum kit if it had cost thousands and thousands of dollars (vs. $1500) and at the detriment of your own savings/retirement?

 

[kumquat]

The two best things you can give your kids are (in order):
1) A work ethic
2) An education

The rest is redundant and may be counterproductive.

 

[clifp]

I was reading thread about Arc struggling with the decision to allow her son to join the army early, Nords discussing his daughters creative idea of a chipping in on the family car, and a couple of other good examples of parenting on the board. (I am not a parent so I don't know jack)

I was starting to think "my there really are good parents out there", and it than I read this crazy article. I guess it isn't quite as a bad as Brittany's mom writing a book on parenting, but what are these parents thinking.

This isn't entirely of academic arguement for the rest of us. The "nothing but the best crowd" are the same ones who are going to demand expensive treatment at taxpayers expense if they get sick in the future and have no money having blown it on 100K instruments.

 

[Nords]

I was starting to think "my there really are good parents out there", and it than I read this crazy article. I guess it isn't quite as a bad as Brittany's mom writing a book on parenting, but what are these parents thinking.

Letting a kid live at home rent-free?!? Where's the incentive to move out? Even if the rent is just saved and gifted back to the kid to deposit in their IRA (assuming they have earned income)...

These parents are their own worst enemies-- either in denial about saving for retirement or not wanting to be empty-nesters.

Spouse had one of those car conversations Friday with our kid (no electronic distractions, no eye contact) about leaving the nest:
Spouse: "... after all, you'll be starting college in just 930 days, right?"
Kid: "Mom, don't you pay attention to the counter on the desktop? It's only 920 days! I can't wait!"
Spouse: "So you've been counting them down, eh?"
Kid: "Oh, I am so outta here."

I don't understand wanting to artificially prolong the child-raising experience. You've worked hard to launch them, so take vicarious pleasure from their successes... after all, you taught them how to make it happen.

 

[HFWR]

The [-]two[/-] best thing[-]s[/-] you can give your kids [-]are (in order)[/-]:
[-]
1) A work ethic
2) An education
[/-]
The rest is redundant and may be counterproductive.

Good genes!!

 

[haha]

Good genes!!

From "What Do You Owe Your Kids?"

You've heard it on every airplane you've ever flown. "Place the oxygen mask over your own face before assisting children." The rationale: If you pass out, you won't be able to help your kids. That same principle should govern any proffer of goodies to grown children, says Michael Eisenberg, a Los Angeles C.P.A. and lawyer. If you're overly generous, you'll have to do without that new kitchen, the trip to Peru you'd planned or a longed-for tummy tuck.

Well, I for one would hate to make do without that upcoming tummie tuck, so now that I finally have been given a good reason I will know to say no if I am ever approached.

Ha

 

[Moemg]

From "What Do You Owe Your Kids?"

You've heard it on every airplane you've ever flown. "Place the oxygen mask over your own face before assisting children." The rationale: If you pass out, you won't be able to help your kids. That same principle should govern any proffer of goodies to grown children, says Michael Eisenberg, a Los Angeles C.P.A. and lawyer. If you're overly generous, you'll have to do without that new kitchen, the trip to Peru you'd planned or a longed-for tummy tuck.

Well, I for one would hate to make do without that upcoming tummie tuck, so now that I finally have been given a good reason I will know to say no if I am ever approached.

Ha

My daughter will not ask me for money but if she tells me some tale of woe I start throwing money at the problem but now I'm getting good at saying 'I'm sure you and your husband will figure that out ".

 

[ladelfina]

Nords.. it sounds like you are a good dad (& yr. wife a good mom) raising a good kid.. even if you have had some hurdles. Hats off and best of luck.

Living in Italy I come up all the time against a traditional culture of dependence. They can't believe I left home at 17 (even though financial support was there for me).

I saw my grand-nephew (! can't believe I actually have a grand-nephew- by marriage, tho') of 3+ being spoon-fed by dad, mom, and grandma. He was perfectly capable of feeding himself. Likewise, I was playing with the kid in the kitchen where there's a wall of opaque glass tiles they use as a white board. We're drawing away together with markers and when the area's full I encourage him to erase so he can draw more. Dad (my nephew) pops in and sees the kid erasing and.. takes the eraser OUT of the kid's hands and erases it HIMSELF. He and mom have put themselves into the role of the kid's slaves, and don't tell me the kid doesn't know it.

Certain people WANT to create a kid -for whatever reason- that is dependent on them. For me, that would be my worst nightmare.. I told the nephew that he should celebrate and encourage every little thing the kid can do for himself (to an appropriate level, not being an ogre) unless he wants to end up with a 40-y.o. living at home. That I would sooner cut off my finger, or the kid's, rather than spoonfeed them ad infinitum. It's hard saying such stuff to a parent not being one myself, but I really feel strongly about it and had this rare personal occasion to express it. To see the literal tears of joy in the grandma's eyes (my 50-something SIL) at the selfish "opportunity" she had to "baby" this kid.. eccch. These parents are spoiling their kids to make up for something THEY lack, not to empower the kid. Empowering or "raising" the kid is the last thing they really want, IMHO.

I met an unmarried couple in Bologna. The guy owned an expensive condo and office condo in the center. Audis, expensive vacations, etc. Financial consultants, tax atty.s in their 30s. Every weekend each went to their 60-70-something respective "mommies" and dropped off their dirty laundry and picked up their week's worth of clean laundry and mom-prepared food since otherwise they would starve and go without clean underwear. It was sickening.

This is universal here. Our yoga teacher is the same.. a 30-40 y.o. (another CPA-type) living with mamma. I forget the context but at one point I just had to say "you know what? I clean my house and I do my own laundry and I have since I was 17. You have all these nice white togs that I'm sure you find clean and perfumed and ironed and folded at the bottom of your bed every day.." Her eyes widened, but she said "you're right". It just didn't occur to her that it might be any different for anyone else! But she claimed it would be "impossible" to get her mother to stop doing her laundry. Boh!?

 

[Nords]

I think the biggest problem is that the parents, for whatever reason, are enabling their kids' behavior instead of teaching them how to live independently. Every bit of training I had to give or take in the military was designed to produce a graduate with skills who could immediately start hauling their weight, and that's pretty much the philosophy we've followed with our kid.

But hey, I'm ER'd now, we're only a few years away from being empty nesters, and I don't have to be so zealous. If this is how these people want to live their lives (while continuing to work and pay into SS & Medicare) then it's their own darn [-]fault[/-] choice.

So I'd like to help those parents who just can't cut the apron strings. What address should I send my dirty laundry and my menu requests to?

 

[Khan]

I think the biggest problem is that the parents, for whatever reason, are enabling their kids' behavior instead of teaching them how to live independently. Every bit of training I had to give or take in the military was designed to produce a graduate with skills who could immediately start hauling their weight, and that's pretty much the philosophy we've followed with our kid.

But hey, I'm ER'd now, we're only a few years away from being empty nesters, and I don't have to be so zealous. If this is how these people want to live their lives (while continuing to work and pay into SS & Medicare) then it's their own darn [-]fault[/-] choice.

So I'd like to help those parents who just can't cut the apron strings. What address should I send my dirty laundry and my menu requests to?

My parents said '18 and out' from birth (though I did return over college breaks).

Can any of those perpetual parents come over here and do housecleaning?

 

[kumquat]

Good genes!!

OK, 3

 

[myself]

Did anybody else catch the fact that the financial planner suggested they refi to a $200,000 mortgage, which counts $30,000 leftover as a safety net?
Is that wise? If you look a couple of paragraphs up (in Balance income and outgo), you'll notice that the financial planner mentions that they spend about $25,000/yr. more than the husband brings in.
I understand that their refi may be slightly less (if they're really lucky), than the rate they'll earn in a money market account.
But who here thinks that they'll blow through the $30k very quickly?

 

[myself]

I saw my grand-nephew (! can't believe I actually have a grand-nephew- by marriage, tho') of 3+ being spoon-fed by dad, mom, and grandma. He was perfectly capable of feeding himself. Likewise, I was playing with the kid in the kitchen where there's a wall of opaque glass tiles they use as a white board. We're drawing away together with markers and when the area's full I encourage him to erase so he can draw more. Dad (my nephew) pops in and sees the kid erasing and.. takes the eraser OUT of the kid's hands and erases it HIMSELF. He and mom have put themselves into the role of the kid's slaves, and don't tell me the kid doesn't know it.

Certain people WANT to create a kid -for whatever reason- that is dependent on them.

WOW. That's insane!
Our 3 year old boy has been walking over to the TV, setting up the LeapsterTV on the TV for almost a year now. If he wants to play it, he just gets up and connects it up, and switched the TV to the proper video input.

I can remember seeing this on an episode of a TV show. A boy that's the same age as this other boy (who's being spoon fed by his mom), gets his mother's breakfast ready for her (although he eats some of it himself). The babying mom's response is that she's rather shocked.