Wow, RobertinOhio. This has got to be one of the saddest posts I've ever read in this forum. Why do I find it sad? Because of the sense of utter hopelessness and despair I sense from you. I've got a few points I'd like to make interspersed with your comments below.
After reading a number of these forums, I pretty much believe and very few of us "Generation Xers" are ever going to "retire". To be honest, I believe in retirement as much as I believe in Santa Claus.
Guess we differ there. When I was a child I thought as a child, and behaved as a child. As an adult I've done my best to put away childish thoughts and behaviors. As an adult I am a very strong believer in the benefits of long term planning. I guess you could say that I believe I can be my own Santa Claus.
I spend just about every dollar I make in bills, food, stuff for kids, etc that there is no place I stop paying for to "save" for retirement. To be honest, I am sick of hearing the word "save". It sounds like the word "f-ck" to me.
Based on what I read in the above paragraph, and the following paragraph, I see some similarities and some differences between us. I am near you in age, and also have all the expenditures of someone with a family of four. I will admit to one strong advantage I have, that I don't know if you have. My parents paid for four years of college for me. I paid the rest, through to a Masters Degree, by the way.
I've never been laid off. But, I did recently take a job with a 20% pay cut. Puts family income around 70k. Regardless, I plan to save around 20k this year. How? I track my expenses, and don't have a lot of luxuries. I buy used or sale items whenever possible. I avoid things-such as cellphones-that have monthly fees. I keep my vehicles for a long time (I still have my 1st car, other vehicles were all used at the time of purchase). I NEVER buy things on credit. Debt is anathema to me. (Full disclosure-I owe on one thing, my house) Like you, when I hear the word "save" it sounds like the word "f-ck" to me. The difference is I like to do both.
On the subject of an earlier post of a person in his 50s being laid off with no time to recover, it is not better for the 20 or 30 somethings. I am 32 now and back in 2003 to 2005, I was out of work for 18 1/2 months. I just this year finally got a stable non-contracting position and I will stick with it until they decide to fire me again where it just starts all over. Needless to say, I have not recovered and now I am worse off. I have a mid 450s credit scores, many charge-offs, and no money to file bankruptcy. Even though I qualify for a chapter 7, the cheapest lawyer I found wants $3700 in advance. He might as well ask me for a $1 million in gold bars. I am going to let a car get repo'ed so I can buy a used vehicle I can own outright.
I am sorry to hear the above. I really am. You've had some tough knocks in recent years. But, I have to say that when I read it what I see is a man that needs a plan. Those tough knocks can make you either tougher or weaker. Your choice. Back about six years ago I was a happy go lucky type of guy. Didn't plan a lot, took things as they came. I sense you may be a frustrated version of the same.
Then I had to have surgery to correct a life threatening problem. Suddenly my approach to life changed. I looked at my life and asked myself what would happen to my family if I had died or been incapacitated. Rather then feel helpless, that is when I began to plan in earnest.
I've already seen some pay-off from that planning.
Since our neocon friends stole bankruptcy and forced us into this 401k scam that pushes everyone into the stock market ponzi scheme, I certainly hope a future generation sets up some kind of program for indigents in their 70s and 80s who are broke and unable to work.
I suspect I (and millions of others) will need it.
I, too, hope our government continues to have programs for people in need. And, I recognize that due to unforeseen events, I may become one of them. But, unlike what you seem to say, I am going to plan my best NOT to be one of them.
America is a sham unfortunately, and most people never see it for the sham it is until they have no money. Money = Life in this country.
Here we disagree strongly. America isn't perfect, but I've seen none better. If you try you do have a chance in our system. But you have got to try!
What I was trying to point out is America does not work for everyone. I know homeless people here eat better out of the trash dumpsters than the rest of the 3rd world, but that does not mean life is better here. You do not see 3rd world people in Africa screwing each other over for jobs or percentages, because none of that exists there. Maybe what the rich have created for us here was a bad idea after all.
Having worked in a homeless shelter, I've seen a bit of what you describe. I saw the full range of needy. I also saw people at that level use hard work and planning to turn their lives around.
Sorry to be a kill joy, but I think retirement is going the way of the dodo , and unfortunately, it will take an entire generation of people starving to death in America in their 70s and 80s before it is realized the 401k/stock market ponzi retire scheme is a failure. If you do not believe me, ask someone who worked for Enron.
I think you are wrong. If you don't believe me, ask someone that has planned and reached retirement.
I'll never put on dollar I earn in a stock market or real estate. I'd rather be homeless and hungry than lose everything I worked for over my life in a stock market, just so I can die in an office cubicle anyway.
I think your head-stuck-in-the-sand approach to planning and life dooms you to live the life you fear. By planning your financial life as best you can, you stand a chance of changing your future prospects. That change isn't promised-little in life is-but it is possible.
If you don't bother to learn the rules of the game, you shouldn't be upset if you lose.
America & Capitalism are frauds. They just are.
Look at the threads on owning renter properties. How do you think those renters are doing? I am renter. I do not know property nor have I have ever so I can pretty much guess how those people are doing.
Again, I think you are wrong. People rent for many, many reasons.
As it happens, I don't rent. I bought a small home about ten years ago. How did I buy a house at the age of 25? Both my spouse and I worked as we went through school, and saved for it. We still live in that house, and I know some family and friends wonder why. Most of them have upgraded in that time. I'll tell you why. My house is not fancy, but it fills my needs. I prefer to put the money into savings, rather then a larger mortgage payment.
Incidentally, despite the current market, that house has appreciated in value over time. Thus, making that initial downpayment I scrimped together; and all subsequent mortgage payments, worthwhile investments. Over time buying the house has cost me much less than renting a similar property.
If you gamed the system and have millions, you have my congratulations. GOOD JOB! But unfortunately, America does not work for everybody and some people are just destined to be worker bees for their entire lives. Maybe I will luck my way into a pension, or win a lottery and come out ok.
There is a difference is playing a rigged game and having control over one's own life. I do not think anyone has control over their own lives. I think that comes down to perception of control, or a belief in it. I know I have no control over my life, I just go with it and hope something good comes along to out weigh the bad.
I think the two paragraphs above show the crux of the difference between yourself and the people here. You don't believe you can impact your own life. How sad. I'll bet most on this forum vehemently disagree.
I wish you luck. But, I don't hold out much hope until you realize that you are the prime motivator in your own life.
