Mr MM Explains the Why of FIRE

[Tekward]

Very nice description of the motivation and benefits of FIRE:

I retired at 30. The best part isn't leisure — it's freedom. - Vox

"Financial independence isn't so much about freedom from work. It is more about freedom to do your best work, without money getting in the way."

 

[DrRoy]

Nice story on motivation, although he did not quite so much retire as find a way to live on w**k that he did not mind doing.

 

[REWahoo]

Nice story on motivation, although he did not quite so much retire as find a way to live on w**k that he did not mind doing.

This ^

We've had multiple discussions about the disingenuousness of claiming to be retired when what actually took place was a career change.

 

[Bestwifeever]

It still makes me laugh to think being seen as "retired" with all its classic connotations would be something to be admired (and monetized). Outside of the FIRE-verse it probably isn't the most flattering term. Why not "self-supporting" or "independently wealthy," or just "rich"?

 

[rodi]

He dissed sitting on the couch and watching tv. I like sitting in my comfy chair and watching tv. I also haven't found anything I'm passionate about enough to make monetizing it worth it. I'll stick with my version of retirement which involves exercise, cooking, reading, watching tv, being a better mom.... No desire to blog, build houses, etc. for money.

 

[Souschef]

I agree, Rodi. I write stories of our travels, and friends have suggested I write a book. I told them I had no desire to, as I just do it for the enjoyment and to share with others.
Being FI allows me to pursue my passions of flying, trains, and travel. I also do volunteer work.

 

[W2R]

He dissed sitting on the couch and watching tv.

It could be worse - - you could enjoy sitting on the couch playing video games.

For some reason, sitting on a couch playing video games is considered to be worse than watching TV, and sitting on a couch reading is considered to be comparatively virtuous no matter what you are reading.

But it's all sitting. I don't know anybody that doesn't sit for a while every day even though most of us should be exercising more.

 

[MichaelB]

He dissed sitting on the couch and watching tv. I like sitting in my comfy chair and watching tv. I also haven't found anything I'm passionate about enough to make monetizing it worth it. I'll stick with my version of retirement which involves exercise, cooking, reading, watching tv, being a better mom.... No desire to blog, build houses, etc. for money.

It could be worse - - you could enjoy sitting on the couch playing video games.

For some reason, sitting on a couch playing video games is considered to be worse than watching TV, and sitting on a couch reading is considered to be comparatively virtuous no matter what you are reading.

But it's all sitting. I don't know anybody that doesn't sit for a while every day even though most of us should be exercising more.

What is wrong with this? Why not? After [-]years[/-] decades of alarm clocks, schedules, deadlines, sacrificing self for work and family, couch potato sounds just fine to me.

Of course, if you haven't spent the decades doing the hard work it's easy to see how the other part might also not be appreciated. Just my $0.02

 

[soupcxan]

It's amazing if you go to the forums associated with his blog, the number of under 30-somethings that are planning to RE in the US with investments <$750k. To me, that is a very long time frame and not very much money. People who would not consider at least +$1m to RE are often derided.


Not sure if there is a reality check coming their way or I am just out of touch.

 

[haha]

It's amazing if you go to the forums associated with his blog, the number of under 30-somethings that are planning to RE in the US with investments <$750k. To me, that is a very long time frame and not very much money. People who would not consider at least +$1m to RE are often derided.


Not sure if there is a reality check coming their way or I am just out of touch.

When it comes it will be suppressed if at all possible.

The level of truth on these sorts of blogs by faux retirees is below even our wonderful political season.

Ha

 

[harley]

It's amazing if you go to the forums associated with his blog, the number of under 30-somethings that are planning to RE in the US with investments <$750k. To me, that is a very long time frame and not very much money. People who would not consider at least +$1m to RE are often derided.

Not sure if there is a reality check coming their way or I am just out of touch.

For most of them, IMO at least, they're shooting for the Office Space definition of retirement:

Well, you don’t need a million dollars to do nothing, man. Take a look at my cousin. He’s broke, don’t do ****.

Most of the MMM folks aren't looking at retirement, they're looking at minimal cost living, possibly combined with non-Megacorp work. Interesting concept, but I keep wondering where they found spouses and kids that would put up with that.

 

[soupcxan]

Most of the MMM folks aren't looking at retirement, they're looking at minimal cost living, possibly combined with non-Megacorp work. Interesting concept, but I keep wondering where they found spouses and kids that would put up with that.

I could live by myself on $25k/year but after you took out health insurance, rent, and food there wouldn't be much left over for actually doing anything fun with all my free time.

A family of three living on $25k/year is certainly possible (people do it, though probably not by choice) but sounds miserable to me - you're almost living at the poverty line.


The forums over there have a board for those looking for romance, so maybe that is how they get together?

 

[Options]

...Most of the MMM folks aren't looking at retirement, they're looking at minimal cost living, possibly combined with non-Megacorp work. Interesting concept, but I keep wondering where they found spouses and kids that would put up with that.

Put up with what? Trading an endless, meaningless, never-ending treadmill of a life earning as much as you can to spend as much as you can, only to find, as just too much research has shown, money cannot buy happiness. I've always lived well beneath my means (enabling me to retire early), unable to relate to the whole "lifestyle" concept ("fine" dining, expensive cars, houses, clothes, ad nauseum). I live in an area of Los Angeles where the insatiable appetite to fill the psychological/emotional hole with the material/external is so rampant you can smell it in the air. As such, I'm at a particular advantage to see the extreme degree to which it just doesn't work.

I applaud Mr. MM for inspiring others to tune into a different way of living, turn on simplicity, and drop out of the insanity that is so much the current american way of life (Black Friday riots, anyone?).

 

[Calico]

Put up with what? Trading an endless, meaningless, never-ending treadmill of a life earning as much as you can to spend as much as you can, only to find, as just too much research has shown, money cannot buy happiness. I've always lived well beneath my means (enabling me to retire early), unable to relate to the whole "lifestyle" concept ("fine" dining, expensive cars, houses, clothes, ad nauseum). I live in an area of Los Angeles where the insatiable appetite to fill the psychological/emotional hole with the material/external is so rampant you can smell it in the air. As such, I'm at a particular advantage to see the extreme degree to which it just doesn't work.

I applaud Mr. MM for inspiring others to tune into a different way of living, turn on simplicity, and drop out of the insanity that is so much the current american way of life (Black Friday riots, anyone?).

I think there is a happy medium between the insane, endless consumption lifestyles you witness in LA and the spartan, monk-like existence touted by some (not all, but some) on the MMM boards.

I tried spending some time on their boards, but the hostility and derision directed at anyone who didn't meet their "standards" made it too unpleasant to spend time there. More power to them if they want to "retire" in their 30's and then live a poverty-level existence for the next 40-50 years. I just choose to live a bit better than I did as a 20-something college student.

To each their own.

Edited to add: I've never set foot at a Black Friday sale and never will.

 

[razztazz]

For most of them, IMO at least, they're shooting for the Office Space definition of retirement:

Most of the MMM folks aren't looking at retirement, they're looking at minimal cost living, possibly combined with non-Megacorp work. Interesting concept, but I keep wondering where they found spouses and kids that would put up with that.

Women marry men with no money and some cock and bullshot dream all the time. And other than the odd Hollywood pairing and the obligatory Mr and Mrs Rich family match ups I haven't seen men in general marry women for their money. If people waited until they had enough money (or what I'd consider enough money) to prudently get married there would be very few marriages. Just Hollywood and Duponts marrying Astors. Everyone else would be marrying much later in life than most people want to.

 

[supernova72]

I've read MMM. I get it but not into selling my car and riding my bike everywhere. Lol. I agree it wasn't retirement it was more about starting a blog on living below your means.

 

[Big_Hitter]

"This is what I'm really describing when I talk about early retirement. It's not really retirement at all, but that's because I don't think anybody should truly retire in the old sense of the word — swearing off all forms of paid activity in favor of a dramatic increase in television watching and golf playing"


this is where he lost me

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I don't think it is necessary to have to live like the Amish like the people on some of the other early retirement forums do to live frugally. Where we live there many opportunities to deal stack for restaurant meals and several comp ticket lists, the libraries have free passes for many cultural events and most of the gardens + museums are in reciprocal programs. So it is possible for us to go out to eat and attend a few cultural events every week and not spend much money at all. I would rather do that than make my own soap.

We are trying to declutter, not own as much stuff and are thinking about downsizing, but that is not an idea unique to a handful of ER bloggers. Ideas about owning less stuff are part of the sustainable living movement and also go back to ideas from philosophers from thousands of years ago.

 

[Greencheese]

I poke around MMM a bit and what I took from it is many people want to be landlords. That's fine... But I don't count that as retired, you're now working (albeit more passively) as a live in landlord in your 4 duplex fiefdom.

 

[FUEGO]

It could be worse - - you could enjoy sitting on the couch playing video games.

For some reason, sitting on a couch playing video games is considered to be worse than watching TV, and sitting on a couch reading is considered to be comparatively virtuous no matter what you are reading.

Wait, I love sitting on the couch playing video games.

I'm still early retired, right?

 

[Big_Hitter]

Wait, I love sitting on the couch playing video games.

I'm still early retired, right?

yeah those are about fighting words!

I love me some fallout 4

I used to be a 100% PC gamer but my PS4 is pretty neat.

 

[Mulligan]

He dissed sitting on the couch and watching tv. I like sitting in my comfy chair and watching tv. I also haven't found anything I'm passionate about enough to make monetizing it worth it. I'll stick with my version of retirement which involves exercise, cooking, reading, watching tv, being a better mom.... No desire to blog, build houses, etc. for money.

I agree Rodi, with the natural exceptions of being male and female...But the comfy chair and watching TV is a common bond shared.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[W2R]

Wait, I love sitting on the couch playing video games.

I'm still early retired, right?

No, you have to love working for pay in early retirement too, because that is the only way a retired person can ever find sufficient "intellectual stimulation". Or so some people think, although I just don't get it myself.

 

[rodi]

Wait, I love sitting on the couch playing video games.

I'm still early retired, right?

Sorry FUEGO - the retirement police object to SAHD/SAHMs calling themselves retired. So you and I don't qualify. LOL.

 

[Gone4Good]

Put up with what? Trading an endless, meaningless, never-ending treadmill of a life earning as much as you can to spend as much as you can, only to find, as just too much research has shown, money cannot buy happiness. I've always lived well beneath my means (enabling me to retire early), unable to relate to the whole "lifestyle" concept ("fine" dining, expensive cars, houses, clothes, ad nauseum). I live in an area of Los Angeles where the insatiable appetite to fill the psychological/emotional hole with the material/external is so rampant you can smell it in the air. As such, I'm at a particular advantage to see the extreme degree to which it just doesn't work.

I applaud Mr. MM for inspiring others to tune into a different way of living, turn on simplicity, and drop out of the insanity that is so much the current american way of life (Black Friday riots, anyone?).

In the lives of most "normal" people, especially those with a better than average income, there's bound to be a fair amount of excess spending in the budget. It's that excess that can be cut back without sacrificing much in the way of quality of life.

But when you keep cutting beyond the excess you run into the reality that certain expenditures really do make our lives easier, more comfortable, or simply more enjoyable. When you start cutting into those layers of spending the trade off switches from the virtuous "less spending equals more financial freedom" to the deleterious "less spending equals more hardship."

My guess is that few of the extreme MM acolytes will end up happy over the long term with the trade offs they're promoting. Soon enough they'll discover the truth that just like everything else in life cutting spending is not immune to the law of diminishing returns.