“FIRE Movement” is evolving

[Markola]

Like many here, I’ve been an avid consumer of FIRE blogs, books, YouTube and you-name-it since I hit a rough stretch at w*rk circa 2012. MMM, JL Collins, and others inspired me to focus on being more self-sufficient and less-reliant on employers and their whims and vagaries.

It worked. DW and I transitioned into FREEDOM and a life of leisure at 54 in 2020. No more alarm clocks, no boss, no structure, all stimulation was up to us to generate.

About 6 months later, the phone rang with a small consulting opportunity, to which I responded with coyness along the lines of, “OH, GOD YES.” Six months after that, I accepted additional part time work at a consulting firm in my field. DW went back to work part time and, like me, works mostly remotely online from home. My part time gigs recently evolved back to full time, with benefits, at age 57. It’s working for me and feels good. I have no commute, modest travel, a rarely-seen boss, and snacks anytime from my own kitchen. I just have to make sure I’m presentable from the waist up.

I’ve noticed the same pattern among many of the FIRE authors and podcasters (blogs seem to evaporate after 3 years.). MMM owns businesses, JL Collins writes successful books, other FIRE enthusiasts are generating income.

And there is a new podcast that perfectly captures the reality that many (not all!) FIREd people experience on the other side: A better relationship with work, stimulation and engagement, income and structure that is more creative, flexible and more satisfying.

I have no relationship to the podcaster in any way but I’ve been enjoying the show “Retire Often” by host Jillian Johnson, which I commend to others. She interviews regular people who are figuring out for themselves this evolving FIRE ethos of treating work as a dimmer switch versus an on/off switch. Enjoy.

 

[Gumby]

"Financial independence" is almost always going to increase your life options, and therefore probably will increase your happiness even if you never retire. After all, once you are FI , you are doing what you do for reasons other than money. The "retire early" part of the acronym is just for those people who have interests other than working. I personally enjoyed my work most of the time I was doing it, but I have many other interests to pursue and I'm having a great time pursuing them in retirement. I suspect you will not find many blogs or podcasts by people who have no intention of working again.

 

[Markola]

+1. There is certainly no one size fits all for this part of life. But I welcome more modern content for those of us who realize that FI is, for us, a desirable opportunity to dial the dimmer switch up, down and all around.

 

[MarieIG]

Yes, to me the "FI" portion of FIRE is the key - as it provides the freedom and flexibility to optimize lifestyle choices.

 

[Surewhitey]

I read / listen about more balance recently. There are extremes in everything & some miss out even in a frugal way. The past couple years we're traveling longer / farther than the past & I'm turning off the frugal side of my brain at times for the wifey. She still w*rk half days to get "double" time off which equates to traveling twice as long.

Those who are too strict will be unhappy when they realize what they could have been doing in moderation. We have an 82 year old dimentia mother and a 87 year old man who is bed bound for the rest of his life. I not only don't want to be this old, but especially the quality of life they live. We only have 30 more years to enjoy at best...

 

[COcheesehead]

I am deep into the financial independent side of FIRE, but I still work PT at winery. I consider it a hobby more than a job. It’s an honor to help a family business prosper and thrive based on my years of experience running my own business.
We still do everything we want in retirement, but the winery gig just adds a little something extra to my life. It has also helped to greatly expand our social network which is important to us as well. Balance in everything.

 

[disneysteve]

I can certainly relate. All of the calculators have us at 100% but I’m still working on a per diem basis, usually 8 or 4 hours per week, and some weeks none. It’s super flexible as I pick my own hours, I enjoy the work, and I like the people and interaction, so I keep doing it. We’d be just fine if I stopped but for now I’m good with it.

 

[Sunset]

OP - Sounds great !!

I phased into retirement by working part-time after retiring as an on-call contractor for previous client. Probably did it for 5 years on an occasional decreasing basis until I had weaned them off

While there is no need, I occasionally get the thought of doing more work.

 

[donheff]

Ditto what everyone else said. +1 to FI. If you actually love your work or can make money from some talent you didn't previously use and enjoy doing so, it isn't "work." After retiring at 56 I did a few gigs but didn't like the responsibility, so dropped all paid engagements. I did a fair amount of volunteer activities that I could do on my schedule, and I pursued lots of interests. Now, at 75 I have gone down an astrophotography rabbit hole that is time consuming but fun. It has also prompted me to relearn Linux to setup a PC I was cycling out in the basement to offload some processing chores. And it led me into Davinci Resolve video editing software, which has a huge learning curve (it's used to edit major motion pictures like Avatar) but is also lots of fun.

A lot of these pursuits look like work to others (including DW) but are entertainment for me. No money from them, however.

 

[Winemaker]

I crammed all my working hours into my life at 56. No more stupid customers asking, "if I w*rked here" while on top of a ladder wearing a hardware brand shirt while getting stock off upper shelves. No more 12 hour days on midnight, day or afternoon shift with icy cold air blowing on you during the winter, and cool humid moist air in the summer. No more bosses trying to make you do the same thing in 4 hours when they were unsuccessful in their past 12 hours. No more watching out for the derelict underling who is deliberately trying to screw things up. No more doing my job and trying to be the extra man because they shorted me 2 people on the crew. No more w*rking the holidays, or planning your schedule to w*rk midnight shift on Christmas, but take the 26th and 27th off, to enjoy the holiday. No more water dripping on me or down my neck, nor standing in knee deep mud try to get a 26 ton piece of machinery unstuck or walking in armpit deep water to get to a failed pump. I miss the camaraderie very much, though. Some really good people.

We sold the last of the rentals two weeks, so no more cutting grass and mingling with the residents. DW and I are proud to say we gave safe, clean, affordable housing to all walks of life. I will miss the chance to meet more interesting people now that we are done with that chapter. The previous chapters led us to another stream of income that allowed our RE.

I volunteer my time to a local winery when wine season begins and I w*rk on the crush pad when tens of tons of grapes arrive. When he's really short handed we help bottle, travel to events for tastings, or w*rk the counter at the winery.

DW doesn't have to go to police station because her 18+ year student threatened her. No more little preschool or high school kids taking a hissy fit. No more asinine parents making excuses why their lazy arse kids/animals won't listen, do their assignments/work, interrupt class, pick on the timid classmates or see how far their bad behavior will be tolerated until someone puts the hammer down.

No FIRE evolving for us. We were tired 9 years ago, and we are having a blast since then. And thanks for the help from those on this forum.






n

 

[pacergal]

Financial independence and retirement allows you to live your life however you wish.
If going back to work in any capacity is what you want to do, then do it.

I worked on call off and on for about 5 years, loved it until I didn't. Then I knew I was done with any paid job or anything I was required to do.
DH retired and never looked back.

Now, I sign up for volunteer opportunities, on days/times I choose, doing things I find have meaning for me and hopefully, have impact on others.
Otherwise, DH and I may travel, take care of DGK, or just hang around the home, taking care of business. Life is wonderful and we are so blessed!

 

[Teacher Terry]

Of the 11 years I have been retired I have worked 8 of those. I am now back to my main career of evaluating worker compensation clients which I love doing. My name comes from the 8 years I taught part time at a university which was a new experience. I book my own clients and work for myself. I don’t plan on ever completely quitting.

 

[Dtail]

Everyone is different. Loved my career from all aspects, but no work now or volunteering either and don't miss any form of it one bit.

 

[disneysteve]

Another thing is that many retirees find work that they really enjoy and find fulfilling that just happens to pay them an income even though that wasn't the goal. My uncle retired years ago and they moved to a retirement community in Florida. He somehow started helping out at the cafe in the clubhouse, found that he really liked doing it, and ultimately took over the operation. They even renamed the cafe in his honor. Mind you, I don't think I ever saw him cook a single thing in all my years, but there he was running the cafe making breakfast and lunch for many of his neighbors in retirement and loving every second of it.

 

[freedomatlast]

My story is very similar to OP's. And the extra dollars make it easy to BTD!

 

[jollystomper]

I have no issues with folks who say they are FIREd going back to work at something they enjoy. I have done a few small side gigs out of interest, not because I needed the money.

But I do remember, at the economic worst point of the pandemic, reading stories on a number of "FIRE" people who were panicking because their "side gigs" or worked dried up, and were desperate to find another job. Are those folks truly FIREd if they had some level of reliance on work?

 

[Ronstar]

I don't understand it, but if going back to work works for you then great.

 

[Dtail]

It goes back to the often-mentioned discussion here whether one is retired if they are working.
My thoughts are that one can be FI, but can't really see how one is retired from working if they are still working, even if they don't need the money or it is a hobby making money, etc.
Doesn't really matter in the end though.

 

[CardsFan]

I just have to make sure I’m presentable from the waist up.

In that case, don't stand up too quickly, just ask Jeffrey Toobin how that will turn out.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[BruinBones]

This thread is timely for me. After three years of FIRE, I will be starting a part-time j*b in January as an independent contractor physician, working 7 days a month. I always said the reason I became a surgeon was because I wasn't good at anything else! It's still true that I derive a lot of self-satisfaction and identity from offering my skills to those who most need them. I'll try w*rking for a few months - I can always tap out if I find it no longer to my liking.

 

[Exchme]

I'm in OP's camp. I went back part-time on a WFH basis after about 15 months retired. DW loves being retired, but I was getting bored after figuring out I didn't have any hobbies that really held my interest. We discovered that the hassle of travel often outweighed the experience when we got there.

So I looked into other opportunities, but none paid like my old job or were really in my wheelhouse. I rebuffed the old company the first couple times they asked but then a group within the company that did interesting stuff called and I said yes. I've been back for a year and a half and still have time to go for walks, work out, go to the kids' house on weekends. It suits me OK and keeps me from driving DW nuts.

I figure everyone is different so has to find their own path. The main point of FI is not to be chained to a job out of necessity, just do it if you like it. On the downside, I feel like the end of the line at work may come as they have started to figure out I'm working for fun, so are getting less generous.

 

[FLSUnFIRE]

It goes back to the often-mentioned discussion here whether one is retired if they are working.
My thoughts are that one can be FI, but can't really see how one is retired from working if they are still working, even if they don't need the money or it is a hobby making money, etc.
Doesn't really matter in the end though.

What if the customers at your fun job routinely ask what "your real job is?" My usual answer is either that I'm early retired (ironic as I am working for them at that very moment) or just that I "escaped the cubicle life and this office is much better."

 

[FlaGator]

This thread is timely for me. After three years of FIRE, I will be starting a part-time j*b in January as an independent contractor physician, working 7 days a month. I always said the reason I became a surgeon was because I wasn't good at anything else! It's still true that I derive a lot of self-satisfaction and identity from offering my skills to those who most need them. I'll try w*rking for a few months - I can always tap out if I find it no longer to my liking.

Good for you! Medicine needs skilled, experienced people. And always will.

When you're good at what you do and enjoy the work and routine, I don't see any reason to stop until your priorities change.

 

[marko]

FI. RE.

"Financially independent" and "retired" (early or otherwise) are two different things.

Some people are financially independent at birth yet likely often have jobs. IMO, volunteer work aside, if you're working, getting a paycheck, even if you don't have to and at a job you enjoy you're not retired.

Then, there are those who are retired and are not FI.

 

[Markola]

I have no issues with folks who say they are FIREd going back to work at something they enjoy. I have done a few small side gigs out of interest, not because I needed the money.

But I do remember, at the economic worst point of the pandemic, reading stories on a number of "FIRE" people who were panicking because their "side gigs" or worked dried up, and were desperate to find another job. Are those folks truly FIREd if they had some level of reliance on work?

It’s a good question. I guess to me it’s better to be fully financially independent, yet being dependent on part time income is better than the vast majority, who are dependent on full time income. It’s a range.

We don’t have a clear, accepted terminology and framework for the lifestyle and wellbeing improvements that can be had by working less than all-the-time. Nor is there a good name yet for working full time but intermittently. Yet those are things many of us are doing.

Semi-FIRE (and skinny, lean or fat FIRE)
Pretirement
Semi Retirement
Retiring Often?

Financially, I’ve come to see my portfolio as less of a fixed annuity with a SWR, etc. and more of a flexible stash I lean on when and as needed to supplement gaps in income for certain stretches of time. I work with a Vanguard planner to make sure we don’t use too much.

And I try not to plan with great detail more than 2 or 3 years out. My formula is along the lines of, “Do I see the opportunity over the next 2 or 3 years to:

Have an enjoyable lifestyle with more travel +

Help and support family members whom I need to and meet obligations +

Generate some income enjoyably +

Tap my portfolio sustainably to fill income gaps +

All the above while not having to do anything major, like downsize the house, and while making sure we have health insurance?”

The economy is always a gamble but recessions last about 18 months, while we have many years worth of reserves to use before making major changes. It also helps a lot to have skills and 31 years experience in a field that has always been high demand and small supply. So, I feel fortified to push the traditional employment model a bit to gain life enjoyment in my healthier 50s. Everyone is different and YMMV.