Post FIRE employment

[chasesfish]

I saw some posts in another thread, but what have people though about for a post FIRE job,


I'm still a fan of folding shirts at Costco. Shuttle bus driver with cash tips also appeals to me

 

[Animorph]

Netflix movie rater or video game test player.

 

[Mill]

youre in Georgia. Check out the Masters and see if they need some extra help in april. should be an experience.

 

[ERD50]

That's an oxymoron. If you are employed you are not retired.

-ERD50

 

[Katsmeow]

That's an oxymoron. If you are employed you are not retired.

The Internet Retirement Police strike again:


Mr. Money Mustache vs. the Internet Retirement Police | Mr. Money Mustache

» The biggest blogging mistake I ever made … Early Retirement Extreme: — a combination of simple living, anticonsumerism, DIY ethics, self-reliance, and applied capitalism

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-vs-the-internet-retirement-police/



This depends entirely upon one's definition of retired or in this case the term used was FIRE. Some people see FIRE as simply meaning Financially Independent able to Retire Early. Some see it as needing to actually retire.

And then, of course, you get to the definition of retired itself. Some people want to draw a hard line but I don't see it that way.

Sure - let's say you are working full time and you are not financially independent. I would say - not retired.

But, it isn't that simple. I can see a range of situations where different people would judge it differently:

1. Retired from a long time career, drawing a pension, FI - but starting a post-retirement business just for fun

2. Retired from a career, FI, volunteering for a nearby organization

3. Same as 2 but one day they offer to pay you for your volunteer work. you don't "need" the money but you decide to accept the money knowing you can quit at any time.

4. Retired from a career, FI, asked to do a consulting project for your old employer. You do one project for a total of 20 hours during the course of the year.

5. Same as 4 but you do 20 hours a month, and can quit at any time.

6. Same as 5, but they put you on the payroll at 20 hours a month.

7. Retired from a career, FI, but you always wanted to do X which you could never afford to do because it didn't pay enough, so you find a part-time job doing X but you have a very tiny BS bucket and could quit at any time.

8. Retired from a career, FI, but you inherited a house and are renting it out and - horrors - it is profitable. If you say this person isn't retired, would it make a difference if he or she was losing money on the rental?

9. Same as 8, but bought a couple of more houses and are renting them out.

10. Retired from a career, FI for basics, but occasionally do some work to get extra spending money that is purely discretionary.

To me, I could find it easy to see all the above as retired since I think retired is more of a mind set than anything else.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I think the issues with the bloggers was that, especially pre-ACA, they didn't appear to be either retired nor fully FI.

They just both had low enough expenses and enough savings that they didn't have to work full time. I think one had somewhere around a $300K nest egg, although the exact amount was never really clear to me, though maybe I missed it.

If you are saying you are FI at an early age and hold yourself out as an expert on the topic, yeah people are going to expect your numbers to work and have a high success rate, if not 100%, in firecalc or some of the other retirement planners.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

 

[Katsmeow]

I was giving the links not to talk about specific examples of people but the concept. That is, the term retirement means different things to different people and like many words it changes over time and can have more than one meaning. I kinda figure that if someone says they are retired that's good enough for me and I'm not going to say that, no, you bought something at a garage sale and dared to sell it at a profit on eBay so you aren't retired....

 

[traineeinvestor]

arrggghhh .... does this mean that I don't qualify for the class of 2013 after all

I will finish my job as a partner in my firm at the end of September, but will (i) carry on as a consultant on terms that I get paid for what I do if and when I chose to do it (as well as keeping my office, secretary and expense account) but have no fixed hours etc and can end it whenever I want - it's primarily for convenience and a means of keeping in touch with some people and (ii) will continue to do unpaid volunteer work. None of these things are being done for money.

I will consider myself well and FIREd with effect from COB 30 September, 2013.

 

[chasesfish]

youre in Georgia. Check out the Masters and see if they need some extra help in april. should be an experience.

I know people who've written in for twenty plus years offering to volunteer for the Masters. Rumor is that the volunteer spots are extremely hard to get because the volunteers get to play the course for a round after the tournament.

 

[jollystomper]

I look at it this way: when I retire I plan not to work. But if someone wants to pay me a reasonable or larger amount of money for doing something that I enjoy, for a minimal number of hours, I'd likely do it. Like an acquaintance who is being paid around $30K a year for reviewing 2-3 technical papers/specifications a month. He says he enjoys the technical reading and it takes him less than a week per month for the reviews and related research and feedback, and does not tie him to any location. He doesn't expect his former Megacorp to do this forever, but why not do it while they are willing to pay him.

 

[bUU]

I'm going to spend the first few years of retirement making up for being unable to focus full time on fostering my own health, effectively getting into the best shape of my life, to the extent possible. Then perhaps I'll see if I can get a part-time job leading yoga classes for the town's senior center.

 

[chasesfish]

This is something I think about quite a bit because I have an insanely early FIRE age target (40-44 depending on how long my wife is willing to work). What do I do after I fire the megacorp comes across my mind

 

[youbet]

That's an oxymoron. If you are employed you are not retired.

-ERD50

+1

When OP said

but what have people though about for a post FIRE job,

I would have said "what have people thought about for a post FI job?"

But it's just terminology I guess. By the more liberal definitions of "retired" running around these days, I might say I retired at 28. I've always said I "retired" at 58 when I last was gainfully employed for compensation but I made some career changes at 28 that might qualify as "retirement" as the word is being loosely defined.

Hey! That's not a bad idea! I feel better already. I've been "retired" 37 years, not 7 years as I thought......

 

[ERD50]

The Internet Retirement Police strike again:

...

Sorry if that pushed a button with you, but for me, words have meanings and it's tough to communicate of we don't use those meanings accurately and consistently. It's why we have dictionaries.

re·tired
/riˈtīī(ə)rd/
Adjective
Having left one's job and ceased to work.

Looking at the OP, I can't imagine that folding shirts at Costco is something anyone would do if they didn't need the money. If the OP is planning on working for money, that does not seem to fit the definition of 'retired'. That's not my opinion, take it up with Webster.

If someone wants to say 'semi-retired', or 'making a career change to part time or less stressful work', or whatever, that's fine. But retired is retired.

If you go to a job for the social interaction, or something other than money, maybe that still counts as retired, because you don't see it as 'work'? It's something you want to do. I think that's a reasonable stretch of the term. Now that is JMO.

-ERD50

 

[Willers]

Webster defines retired as "withdrawn from one's position or occupation : having concluded one's working or professional career". When I finally cure myself of my OMY syndrome I will "withdraw" from my professional career at Megacorp.

In retirement I plan to rehab houses and rent them out. I've wanted to have some rentals for a long time, but didn't have the flexibility or time in my current job to do it. I love rehabbing so I'll no longer be working, I'll be playing.

Will I consider myself retired? You bet. Retirement to me means I get to do whatever I want.

 

[REWahoo]

I'm going to redefine some words to meet my personal preferences. That way I can describe myself as young and handsome.

 

[Ally]

At our local upscale grocery store, they hire lots of PT sackers who are retired folks. They bag your things and take them to your car. The store is very flexible on work schedules, so you can work a couple of months and travel for a month, etc. One of the men is 90 years old and very active. One of the ladies retired from the post office and said she saves up $$ to travel. She said that its physically active, no manager responsibilities and no stress.

 

[Katsmeow]

Sorry if that pushed a button with you, but for me, words have meanings and it's tough to communicate of we don't use those meanings accurately and consistently. It's why we have dictionaries.

Sure but word's over time change in meaning as circumstances change. That is why periodically the dictionary gets revised and changed. And, even among dictionaries, they may have subtle differences. And, some words even have more than one definition.

I just think that it is silly to have an overly rigid view of what retirement is. There are some here who would have it that if you ever happen to make a dollar through anything other than purely passive investments then you aren't retired. So, if you happened to buy something at a garage sale and you sold it for a profit on eBay then you aren't retired. Some people have hobbies that happen to earn them money. Some people like doing things that someone else will pay for, but they don't need the money but they'll take it. I don't see any sense of telling them they aren't retired.

What bothers me about the Internet Retirement Police is not so much that different people have different views but so many feel like they need to tell other people if they are retired or not. If someone has retired from a long career doing X and during retirement had an opportunity to earn money doing Y and are doing it for furn who the heck am I to tell them they aren't retired?

 

[ERD50]

... If someone has retired from a long career doing X and during retirement had an opportunity to earn money doing Y and are doing it for furn who the heck am I to tell them they aren't retired?

They can call themselves anything they want. All I'm saying is, it adds confusion to discussions on forums like this, to use one word to mean different things. Many of the terms we use are already confusing, why add to it?

For example, a SWR discussion has different angles if someone plans to supplement their withdrawals with income at times.

I really don't know why so many people have such an issue with the concept of "Say what you mean, mean what you say"? It just seems so obvious to me that that approach helps facilitate meaningful discussion, ambiguity of words does not.

Poetry can be made more beautiful with that ambiguity and multiple meaning, and leaving things open to the interpretation of the reader. I don't think that applies to financial discussions.

Also, I think there is a difference between "I retired from MegaCorp" and "I am retired". The first means I no longer work at the company/industry I had a career at, the second means I no longer work.

-ERD50

 

[Bestwifeever]

I'm going to redefine some words to meet my personal preferences. That way I can describe myself as young and handsome.

I just love that now it's the coolest thing to call yourself retired, especially in the blogosphere. Ten years ago people who met every possible criterion of being retired didn't want to be thought of that way.

As a great philosopher once said, you can call yourself a ham sandwich if you want to.

 

[Willers]

I'm going to redefine some words to meet my personal preferences. That way I can describe myself as young and handsome.

That's how I keep describing myself to DW. I can't figure out why she keeps rolling her eyes...

 

[Katsmeow]

The thing is that for some things it is very easy to draw a line and say some is X or isn't X. Retirement, I submit, due to changes in the world is no longer one of those things where I can reasonably make that determination for someone else.

Back in the dark ages, my dad retired. He was clearly retired and never had another job. However, one day he was out taking a walk and he started picking up cans. He would then sell them for money. Now, there are people who would say that since he actually sold them for money then he was "working" and so no longer retired. On the other hand had he thrown them in the trash then he would be retired.

There are many more examples of this in the more modern world. Let's say I write a blog (I don't) and I accept no ads or anything and the blog is an expense. Most would say that person is still retired. On the other hand, let's say I put an ad link in there and collect ad money. Is that person still retired? I would say, yes, if the person has the mindset of being retired. On the other hand, if the person feels that blogging is his/her occupation and that they want and need to blog to earn a living then, no.

If I get up on some mornings and surf the internet and putter around on the internet, careful to earn no money then most would say that is a retirement activity. On the other hand, if I get paid for some of the puttering around on the internet then some say that is not retired even if I don't need the money and are doing it for fun but happen to get paid.

To me there is enough gray area in these things (blogging with ad revenue? owning a rent house? consulting? selling garage sale items for a profit? a volunteer activity that someone will pay you for?) that I don't feel a need to tell someone you are or aren't retired and would leave it to the individual.

I don't find this particularly confusing, either. If someone retired spent 5 hours this week choosing - while FI - to do something that earned money how is that more confusing than if that same person instead watched TV for 5 hours?

By all means, I think that if your personal definition for retirement is not doing anything that could possibly earn money then go for it. I just don't see the need to tell other people that if they went to a garage sale and bought something that they resold for a profit on eBay that somehow they are wrong to call themselves retired.

 

[youbet]

Back in the dark ages, my dad retired. He was clearly retired and never had another job. However, one day he was out taking a walk and he started picking up cans. He would then sell them for money. Now, there are people who would say that since he actually sold them for money then he was "working" and so no longer retired. On the other hand had he thrown them in the trash then he would be retired.

Post FIRE employment

Remember Kat, we're discussing this in a thread where the question is "employment" after FIRE. The example given was working for Costco in the clothing department folding shirts. I have no problem with doing that, but my choice would be to refer to myself as working part time.

You're the only one bringing up mundane activities like collecting cans, etc. and questioning whether that would remove someone's "retired" status. OP asked his question about being "employed" after FIRE.

Some of us seem to think that resuming employment after retirement probably means you went back to work. If you disagree, no problem. This would hardly be the first time definitions, jargon, terminology, etc., have been debated without resolution on this board!

I get it that your view is different.

 

[Katsmeow]

Remember Kat, we're discussing this in a thread where the question is "employment" after FIRE.

You're the only one bringing up mundane activities like collecting cans, etc. and questioning whether that would remove someone's "retired" status. OP asked his question about being "employed" after FIRE.

I don't think it makes a difference. I use those examples I used to show how the line is not as clearcut as some say. They are meant to be examples to show that what retirement is depends on the person.

That said, I don't see employment itself as keeping someone from being retired under certain conditions. If the job is one that one is doing to have fun or pass the time and the person is FI and the job is serving the same function that someone else might use for a volunteer activity then I don't see that the fact that money is being earned means the person isn't retired. I think the individual needs to make that determination in deciding whether the employment is such that they don't consider themselves retired or not.

 

[youbet]

That said, I don't see employment itself as keeping someone from being retired under certain conditions..

There are probably exceptions to the rule for every definition or concept if "certain conditions" are met. But if some "retired" person tells me they're seeking employment, I'd tend to think that that meant they were leaving retirement status and going back to full or part time work. You'd prefer to think they remain "retired."

That's OK. Just different ways of looking at things.