Pushing for career growth

[MBAVisionary]

I'm finally coming to terms with the fact that if I do not start aggressively planning for my retirement, when the time comes, there won't be any money for me to live on. I place little confidence in the ability of our federal or state governments to take care of a large number of individuals indefinitely. Especially with the anticipated much higher life expectancy around the year 2050.

With that said, I am trying to figure out my career aspirations. The New York Metro area offers many opportunities, if you meet what the hiring managers are looking for. This is far different from living in a small town where jobs come few and far between. At the same time, if I stick to finding a job on the island I would be able to have more work life balance but my overall pay will be substantially lower. That's making the assumption I could find a comparable job here as I would the big city.

So my question is this… What advice would you give to someone who was in the middle of a job search, gets along well with his coworkers but just isn't making enough? I want something that challenges me, but also don't want to get burned out in the process. The idea working 60 or more hours a week is quite unappealing to me.

The entrepreneurial route does interest me, but I'm not sure I could stomach the risk. For the longest time, I've been trying to figure out something that I am good at. It's an ongoing process and I still don't have the answer. The strategy I'm adopting is to look at as many descriptions as possible and that could potentially be applicable to my major in business. The whole process of searching for a job is a bit daunting to me. Last year, I only went on one phone interview after applying to 40 positions and took the one offered to me right away out of desperation. Advice wanted.

 

[chinaco]

Thought... but not an opinion.

If you can land a fast-track job in NYC that leads to quick riches do it and exit early if you choose.

If you think you will be a mid-level manager and make decent money... you will probably need to live in the burbs and commute (long commute) to be able to save money.

Long-commutes for 20 to 25 years equals less $ per hour spent working (including the commute). Long commute times (2-3 hours a day) lower one's satisfaction and cut into one's quality of life.

If you are not tied to NYC, going to a smaller metro area (another less large city) and working as a mid-level manager/professional will yield equivalent wages for the area... probably with a shorter commute.

You might consider a relo if it fits with your life.

If you haven't figured it out by now... I hate the commute!

 

[BizzyC]

So I think finding the balance of high-pay/hard work vs. having a personal life is a really personal decision, and you just aren't going to be able to substitute someone else's judgement for your own. So many individual issues need to be considered-- like do you have a spouse and children, would it rob those relationships, etc.

I can tell you that for me, I've always been the kind of person who likes to get the tough stuff out of the way first, so that I can take it easy later on. This has paid off in spades for me. I'm now 45, and FI, but am choosing to work another ~3 yrs for a little more icing on the cake. (It's true what they say, we do "grow to the size of our cage" and I find that while I was never and will never be one to buy a designer purse, I do like great wine and dinner at a Michelin star restaurant. I don't ever, ever, EVER want to be in a position to need to think about re-using a dryer sheet.)

So, without knowing much about you, I'd say if you are young and unmarried, or without kids, it would be better to trying to do the tough stuff now. It will just open up so many more choices for you later on.

 

[MBAVisionary]

I was crunching the numbers and even if I stay put and don't get a raise I'll make double what I was making last year. Since I was part time for half of the year... The commute would be 1-1.5hours from the time I leave my house to the time I get to the location in the city. It would be doable but still a bit of an inconvenience, unless I ended up moving.

 

[MBAVisionary]

Bizzy I'm not married. Probably not going to end up having kids, just a personal decision. I don't mind a little sweat / grinding if I get closer to my outcome. I have nothing to lose but a little time in the application process and everything to gain.

 

[ronocnikral]

a couple of questions i have:

*is life about maximizing one's income?
*is maximizing your income the only way to achieve ER?

finding that optimum is easier said than done.

we'd rather live in a location we enjoy and make less money. i'd rather pay for a more expensive house/live less extravagantly than commute. it's kind of like the lawyer i spoke to on a chair lift at purgatory (on a thursday, after a large storm) a couple years ago. that meant more to him than making a ton of money. besides, there are worse places than durango, co...

 

[raiser]

I grew up on Long Island and faced a similar scenario. When I graduated college all of my friends took corporate jobs in the city and were making substantially more money then me out of college. I ended up taking a civil service job on the island and while making substantially less money had better hours and benefits. After ten years on the job I have caught up to most of them in salary and still keep the same quality of life. Ill also have a pension as long as the state doesn't go bankrupt.

Some stuff to keep in mind if you plan on working in the city... a monthly pass on the LIRR has been getting very expensive and its going to cost a car payment in monthly commuting costs. There's an minimum thirty minute commute to Penn (Great Neck) and the tunnel to Grand Central will not be ready until 2020. If your working in the Financial District you will also have to purchase a monthly subway pass. With all of this snow if you noticed with this snow the train service on the LIRR has been very spotty.

If you move to Queens or Brooklyn you can save some money on the LIRR and take the subway. Since you mentioned not having kids you dont have to worry about the city schools. Houses and Condo's are significantly more expensive in the city but the taxes on them are much cheaper. If you do live within the city limits they have a income tax which may even out with the LIRR costs. But technically if you live in the city you really don't need a car.

Since you live on the island I am sure that you are aware that Nassau and Suffolk have the highest paid Police and Teachers in the country. Suffolk Police has a civil service test coming up... Any civil or federal job will give you a normal work week and a competitive salary.

If it were me, id be looking at http://nassaucivilservice.com USAJOBS - The Federal Government's Official Jobs Site and Suffolk County Government - Civil Service

 

[MBAVisionary]

raiser, thanks for the reply. I have been looking at civil service jobs on and off but at present there aren't any openings I'm qualified for. After 10 years, that's interesting. I also have observed that legislators are looking to make additional tax cuts to both the pension system as well to the overall headcount for the various state agencies. The purpose being to balance the budget. As the saying goes, timing is everything. I've been reading lately that 10% of teachers are going to be laid off.

I have friends who commute via the LIRR daily. They pay around 300/mo,and around $80/mo for the subway. That's a lot of bread especially if you have a car and are paying for it as well. From Huntington a non-express would take me over an hr and if there are delays forget about it.

You're right about taxes though. http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/2010/inc/nyc_tax_rate_150_201.pdf shows me the current tax rates for NYC. Basically 25k-50k is 808+3.591 of the excess over 25k. So if I made 40k that would be 538 + 808 or 1346. Federal taxes on that sum would equal around $6100 and State Tax is 6.85% of income or 2740. So add those together, 2740+1346+6100=10186. Of course there are items that can be used for tax benefit but that's still a ton of money to just shell out each year.

My stepfather collects 2 pensions and worked for the state in one capacity or another for 30 years. He has great benefits though part of me wonders what he would have ended up with for the same period in the private sector.

 

[MBAVisionary]

a couple of questions i have:

*is life about maximizing one's income?
*is maximizing your income the only way to achieve ER?

finding that optimum is easier said than done.

we'd rather live in a location we enjoy and make less money. i'd rather pay for a more expensive house/live less extravagantly than commute. it's kind of like the lawyer i spoke to on a chair lift at purgatory (on a thursday, after a large storm) a couple years ago. that meant more to him than making a ton of money. besides, there are worse places than durango, co...

I lean more to the side of enjoying the way life is going overall. Not to say the two are mutually exclusive, but..... I don't want to work my way into the ground and end up having a heart attack / stroke / etc before I'm 50. Just not worth it in my opinion. I see lots of older people with money who are the most miserable people you'd ever meet.

 

[Retch The Grate]

I was crunching the numbers and even if I stay put and don't get a raise I'll make double what I was making last year. Since I was part time for half of the year... The commute would be 1-1.5hours from the time I leave my house to the time I get to the location in the city. It would be doable but still a bit of an inconvenience, unless I ended up moving.

That time is going to be incredibly painful. I lived in New Jersey and worked in NYC for several years. At first I was in Bergen County, and had to take Jersey Transit to Hoboken, then the PATH into the city. Despite being the sort of person who loves reading and listening to music, 2.5-3 hours total commute time every day was awful. When I moved to Hoboken and suddenly didn't turn into a pumpkin every night, and spent only 60-90 minutes on the commute, much of it walking, my life was dramatically improved.

 

[W2R]

Whatever job you end up with, I'd start living very economically and saving money. You don't have to earn a lot of money to retire. You just have to be willing to LBYM.

 

[MBAVisionary]

Whatever job you end up with, I'd start living very economically and saving money. You don't have to earn a lot of money to retire. You just have to be willing to LBYM.

Always prudent advice. I think many people myself included think we can afford things when really we cannot. Even savings can be made on the larger ticket purchases. A couple thousand here and there over time can add up, whether it be weekly, monthly or annually. My phone for example is costing me $6000 at the end of 5 years. I use it everyday to stream music and access the net but still that's a huge amount of money.

 

[popowich]

So my question is this… What advice would you give to someone who was in the middle of a job search, gets along well with his coworkers but just isn't making enough?

Get a second job. Do you have any hobbies that you can turn into additional fun part time income?

 

[jayc]

I don't want to work my way into the ground and end up having a heart attack / stroke / etc before I'm 50.

Is there an easier path to FI? Why do you equate working hard and having finite goals with having health issues?

I see lots of older people with money who are the most miserable people you'd ever meet.

If you get to age 50 and have this problem, you can turn over a new leaf the next day.

If you get to age 50 and have no money, the next day won't be much different money wise.

 

[W2R]

Always prudent advice. I think many people myself included think we can afford things when really we cannot. Even savings can be made on the larger ticket purchases. A couple thousand here and there over time can add up, whether it be weekly, monthly or annually. My phone for example is costing me $6000 at the end of 5 years. I use it everyday to stream music and access the net but still that's a huge amount of money.

So I guess you have a choice. Would you rather spend your money to do things such as use your phone every day to stream music and access the net, or would you rather use your money to retire early?

Some people just don't want to retire. Maybe you do. But anyway, it's time to think about what you really do want in life.

 

[BigNick]

Some people just don't want to retire. Maybe you do. But anyway, it's time to think about what you really do want in life.

A few years ago I read about "some bunch of tree-huggers" protesting about some airport expansion or other. It was at a time and in a place where the majority of the traffic driving the expansion was coming from vacationers. The interviewer asked the head tree-hugger what was so bad about people pursuing happiness through vacations, and the reply was "Well, maybe if our lives were organised in such a way that we didn't need to jet off somewhere to unwind from the stress, we'd all be better off".

At the time I dismissed it as "tree-hugging hippy crap (*)", but now I'm not so sure. I'm starting to sympatise with that position, albeit on a voluntary basis rather than "no, you mustn't build that extra runway".



(*) Well, that would have been what I'd have used if I were more right-wing than I am. But even my liberal self thought it was a little simplistic at the time.

 

[MBAVisionary]

W2R, I'd like a balance of the two. I adopt the mindset that you can't take it with you. Based on my family history (father lived to 47 and grandmother 59), there is nothing promised in life. I am doing everything I can to ensure I stay alive into my 80s between exercise, vitamins, not smoking or drinking excessively.

I still don't want to sacrifice to the point where I feel like I'm missing out on anything. I can get maximum value from a product or service and still not overextend myself in getting it. For example a pair of shoes I bought for $37 shipped that would run me 70-100 in a department store. I got a book on Social Media that could give me a big payoff down the road. New $30, got it used for $14 with a discount.

I am also investing in myself. Signed up for an 8 week course that will help me with Freelancing, picking an area that caters to my strengths and developing my skills / creating a pitch / negotiating / boosting my rates / etc. It is refundable after 60 days should I be unsatisfied, though it is a little over my net take home pay. The way I see it is my 6 years of college cost me $42k+, $1k on something that should have a more real world / direct impact on my life is worth it. If I'm grossing about $30k now and can generate an extra 1-2k a month that would help me reach my goals much more quickly. I'd prefer doing this on my own instead of working a second job as an employee simply because many night jobs I see are in supermarket / fast food. Nothing wrong with that, but prefer to learn while I work instead of a lot of low-thought activities.

In addition, I am sending my resumes to contacts I have through friends and family. A 30k->40k/yr job would also be a big step up. An extra $200/wk or so. That was about what I was making 2 years ago before I upped and quit my job thinking I could make more w/o something else lined up.

 

[MBAVisionary]

Get a second job. Do you have any hobbies that you can turn into additional fun part time income?

Not exactly 'hobbies' but here is my short list so far.

1. Social Media work
2. Marketing
3. Radio / Voiceovers
4. ebook

Currently getting specific and expanding the list.

Also sorry for the delay in my responses. I was on vacation this week. Now I'm ready to get back to business!

 

[Midpack]

I still don't want to sacrifice to the point where I feel like I'm missing out on anything.

Striking that balance is unique to every one of us, there is no right answer. As you get older, you will probably find that you can do without most of what you consider essential when you're younger. "Missing out on anything" is only in your head, and if you judge based on your peers, you're not likely to 'get it' for quite a while. The sooner you come to that realization, the quicker you'll reach FI...then all sorts of options are open to you.

 

[Joshua]

Or you may find yourself having a harder time doing without things. I am only 28, and I'm already finding it harder to deny myself things than I did when I was 18. It sucks. I used to be able to eat rice and beans every day of the week and not feel the least bit deprived. Now, I am not as easily satisfied.

Part of it comes from so many years struggling and failing to get ahead - I started thinking, "Well, if I'm never going to get ahead anyway, why not enjoy today?" I just kind of gave up. Now I am digging my way back out of the hole I fell into, and I have to try to be frugal instead of just doing it without effort.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally Posted by MBAVisionary
I see lots of older people with money who are the most miserable people you'd ever meet.

Well they may be miserable, But at least they can suffer in comfort !

 

[MBAVisionary]

Well they may be miserable, But at least they can suffer in comfort !

Good point, lol. The suffering isn't always in comfort though. Over the years I've seen lots of older people complaining about their pensions not being enough to live off of, along with losing significant sums of income in their retirement accounts, etc. So the grass isn't always greener on the other side.