Smelling the roses along the way

I sacrificed almost everything from 18-30.

I'll second that thought - as well as everything else in your post ;)

To me it is well worth it being able to retire at 30. Was it rough? yep.

I have the rest of my life to catch up though.

Now if I had just woken up at 30, then I think it would be much harder.
Unfortunately for me, I won't be calling it quits at 30....but will be in the next few years (partly depending on whom I end up marrying-assuming things go as I hope down the road) :).
 
With every passing year my tastes change. Activities I thought I would always love no longer hold my attention. New interests have come up that I would never have imagined I would like. I think it is great that some posters achieve FIRE in their 30s or 40s. I suspect many others who were interested in doing so may find their goals morphing as their life changes - nothing wrong with that.

This is true, and also sort of a bummer.

I always swore that as soon as I could, I would buy a Ferrari 308 (the kind Magnum PI drove), even if I had to take out a big, stupid loan to do it. That was my solemn promise to myself, from about ages 10 through 25. It motivated me to study for countless law school exams, and helped me through many long nights writing unpleasant research papers. Then, as soon as I could qualify for the loan, I thought, well, I should just wait a little while, and save up a little more. Then, once I had enough money to buy the car with cash, I thought, well, maybe I'll buy the car after I've moved up to a nicer house. And now, although I still want the car, I'm fixating on how it's really a waste of money. In a few years, I'll probably reach a point where I don't even want the car anymore.

Basically, my priorities have changed with age, and as a result, I'm missing out on something that used to be really important to me. It's unfortunate I've broken the promise I made to myself, but at least I still have my money!
 
This is true, and also sort of a bummer.

...And now, although I still want the car, I'm fixating on how it's really a waste of money. In a few years, I'll probably reach a point where I don't even want the car anymore.

Basically, my priorities have changed with age, and as a result, I'm missing out on something that used to be really important to me. It's unfortunate I've broken the promise I made to myself, but at least I still have my money!
Is it really unfortunate? You put off some immediate gratification awhile back and now your tastes have changed or are changing. Are you doing things that seem more important now (like the new house)? If so, no harm, no foul.

Now, if you are looking back wistfully at all the things you wish you had done, that is another issue. Then, maybe you are failing to stop and smell the roses.
 
My buddy was about 27 when he got a used Ferrari 308 in the mid 80s. I am pretty sure he paid cash for it. The first thing that happened is he had to replace the engine to the tune of more than 25K. (He did get the 17 year old kid who he bought it from to split the cost. As side note the kid was on his 2nd Ferrari, parents don't do this!!)

Now my friend, was good looking, smart, nice French-Canadian, but painfully shy around women. He hope that the Ferrari would change his image and luck with woman.
It didn't happen that way, in fact around Silicon Valley, Ferrari's hardly rated a second look. As far as a sport car goes, I was underwhelmed, I prefered my RX7 or my roommates Toyota Supra (circa 86) to his Ferrari.

So I think you are better off, you still have the money, you didn't have to deal with car being in the shop all the time, and you still have the fantasy of how cool it would be to have one...
 
I'll probably reach a point where I don't even want the car anymore.
Tortfeasor, you're "growing up"!! ;)

Maybe you could schedule a vacation around renting one somewhere where it'd be fun to drive it..
 
Brewer wrote the excellent statement:

"Once your portfolio is up to a certain size, the returns it generates over time far outweigh the effects of your additional contributions. To me, in my current situation, this is a big deal. It means that if I dialled back my efforts in my career and spent more time sniffing roses with my wife and kids, it would make only a small difference in when I get to check out for good."

At 51 I've reached the same realization. I'm estimating about 3 more years to FIRE depending upon where the market goes. The other thing that added to my perspective was getting very seriously ill with my life in danger in September (see my post in the Health forum).

Getting way too close to checking out, along with realizing that even if I save my max 401k it's not going to make a big difference in the timing, has caused me to reassess priorities. I booked a trip for the whole family to the Mayan Riviera in Mexico for the holidays! You need to have some fun now, you might not make it to enjoy all of those savings.
 
I agree with some of the sentiments expressed here about taking the time to smell the roses. Presently, I'm torn between pursuing a significantly higher paying job (which in turn would require more hours) and keeping the one I have (which has very reasonable hours). Because of my LBYM lifestyle, I don't really need the money, nor does my DW (since she earns more than I do). That said, more money is always nice to have, especially if it provides the ability to ER and do what I really want to do much sooner than life would normally permit.
 
SLC said: "I always swore that as soon as I could, I would buy a Ferrari 308 (the kind Magnum PI drove), even if I had to take out a big, stupid loan to do it. That was my solemn promise to myself, from about ages 10 through 25."

Sounds like me. As kid, I always wanted a Porsche 911 convertible. When I hit 33, I realized that my LBYM mentality would never actually allow me to buy one. So I bought a Honda S2000 instead. Used! But 5 years later I still have it and I love it. It satisfied my desire for a convertible without blowing the budget.

More on topic, I save about 30% of my income but still do things I like - travel, go out with friends, etc. I have found a good balance while still reaching for my FIRE goal of 52. Next stop - Alaska in July 2008.
 
Tomcat - great though provoking thread - and great answers, too.

I understand your 1 more year syndrome - it's like wanting a bit more insurance just in case. As other posters have mentioned, balance is the key, but it has to be your balance. I've found that my experiences have been the most important to me in my life. My husband and I were just remarking at how many of our friends and family marvel at our lives - we travel to neat places and try to enjoy what is around us. This year it was South America as well as hiking in Bryce Canyon and the PCT. Previous years it was hiking the Tour du Mont Blanc and Via Ferrate - we also like to snow ski. The key to all of that was planning and follow-through. I've found that you can have these experiences if you do some research and make that decision regarding price point, then you will find something that meets you needs and possibly exceeds them.

Why am I going through all of that - it's because I believe that setting goals and researching how to get to those goals helps refine them as well as your expectations about the goals and your life. However, one also needs to take into account the emotional aspect - I had a great boss (now friend) who said that when needing to make a lifestyle/career/personal decision set up a matrix of variables important to you and weight them. Then rank the different options and crank out the calculation - if the highest (or lowest based on how you make your weighting work) score matches your gut feeling, then go with it. If it doesn't, then look at your weightings and re-evaluate/calculate - if it still doesn't match your gut, then go with your gut feeling. I was surprised at this from him - however, it made sense. Make yourself and your brain go through with the analytical exercise so that at least those physiological pathways are engaged in some sense with the decision - however, let your emotions weigh in, too. Just by forcing the analytical process, you are tempering the emotional weighting of the decision.

Off the soapbox.
 
I agree with some of the sentiments expressed here about taking the time to smell the roses. Presently, I'm torn between pursuing a significantly higher paying job (which in turn would require more hours) and keeping the one I have (which has very reasonable hours). Because of my LBYM lifestyle, I don't really need the money, nor does my DW (since she earns more than I do). That said, more money is always nice to have, especially if it provides the ability to ER and do what I really want to do much sooner than life would normally permit.

I have done this. In part I needed to do so to get good experience and build up the port, but it comes at a large cost. Assuming I didn't need the money and experience, I probably would not do it again.

YMMV, of course.
 
I have done this. In part I needed to do so to get good experience and build up the port, but it comes at a large cost. Assuming I didn't need the money and experience, I probably would not do it again.

YMMV, of course.

On a much lower level, I did the same thing, did two years in the high stress, high performance, higher pay arena and am now looking to escape to a manager position back in my low stress area. The experience was needed for me to climb, as I'm early in my career. But Jay, if you are just looking to shave a year or so off of RE with this move, I would be wary. This move, if it works out, will land me in a low stress job making 50% more than when I started this adventure, and I still question my wisdom.
 
Sounds like me. As kid, I always wanted a Porsche 911 convertible. When I hit 33, I realized that my LBYM mentality would never actually allow me to buy one.
I was gassing up our 14-year-old station wagon at Costco Tuesday night when a Porsche snarled up to the next pump. Out popped a guy who should've had "WARNING: MID-LIFE CRISIS!" tattooed on his forehead. Balding on top & in back, shoulder-length flyaway Gallagher hair with no ponytail, old dirty white tank top, sagging chest & arm muscles, 12-pack beer belly, old torn up shorts, beat-up slippers. He caught my stare and gave me a head nod that said "Howzit, brah, cool car eh?" Definitely a chick magnet.

The scary thing is that while he didn't look too much different than me, he appeared to be at least a decade older. Yet the lack of reading glasses made me suspect that he was barely out of his 30s.

The car was in nice shape. He'd either just had it detailed or he'd been spending a lot of time on it. By the time I left the pump, though, I'd lost interest in high-performance sports cars. It'd be tough to haul a longboard around in that one, anyway...
 
SLC said: "I always swore that as soon as I could, I would buy a Ferrari 308 (the kind Magnum PI drove), even if I had to take out a big, stupid loan to do it. That was my solemn promise to myself, from about ages 10 through 25."

Sounds like me. As kid, I always wanted a Porsche 911 convertible. When I hit 33, I realized that my LBYM mentality would never actually allow me to buy one. So I bought a Honda S2000 instead. Used! But 5 years later I still have it and I love it. It satisfied my desire for a convertible without blowing the budget.

More on topic, I save about 30% of my income but still do things I like - travel, go out with friends, etc. I have found a good balance while still reaching for my FIRE goal of 52. Next stop - Alaska in July 2008.

And you sound like me as well. I should've mentioned that when I hit 29, instead of buying my dream Ferrari, I bought a Nissan 350Z. Used! It's easy to maintain and I can actually drive it around town and leave it parked at the grocery store.

And it blows the doors off of S2000s. >:D
 
Next stop - Alaska in July 2008.


By the way, I grew up in Alaska, and I try to get back up there whenever I can. There are few places in the world as beautiful. I'd like to buy a summer place in Homer someday. Have fun on your trip.
 
Used 1967 XKE 2+2 coupe - paint redone in deep metalflake candyapple red. 1970 -1974. Had a 1961 Pontiac Bonneville to use when the Jag didn't run/fighting over insurance(single in Denver) and a 1954 Chevy Suburban for the mountains - backpacking and fishing destinations.

Do it while you're young - yes they really are chick magnets and the cops really do watch for red sports cars.

The cure - some day calculate what that sports car costs you just sitting parked at the curb, not running. If that doesn't get you thinking cheap bastard frugal - you are beyond help.

Get a steady girlfriend and a good used car.

heh heh heh - or Pssst Wellesley via autodeposit and party on the rest :rolleyes:. On second thought - Target Retirement for your age - I just love to say pssst Wellesley.
 
I agree with some of the sentiments expressed here about taking the time to smell the roses. Presently, I'm torn between pursuing a significantly higher paying job (which in turn would require more hours) and keeping the one I have (which has very reasonable hours). Because of my LBYM lifestyle, I don't really need the money, nor does my DW (since she earns more than I do). That said, more money is always nice to have, especially if it provides the ability to ER and do what I really want to do much sooner than life would normally permit.

If the higher paying position provides more job satisfaction despite longer hours, it may worth pursuing. Dominic Orr, a CEO of a networking company, became a success (financially) at the expense of his family life.

How Dominic Orr almost ruined his life - Oct. 30, 2007
 
Brewer wrote the excellent statement:

"Once your portfolio is up to a certain size, the returns it generates over time far outweigh the effects of your additional contributions. To me, in my current situation, this is a big deal. It means that if I dialled back my efforts in my career and spent more time sniffing roses with my wife and kids, it would make only a small difference in when I get to check out for good."
To Brewer and SurfDaddy's point about the seeming pittance additional cash contributions make...

I know the syndrome but can only say after having been through up and downturns... the additional cash may seem a pittance during good years like this, but during years of negative returns it can really help, if only psychologically, to know that you are adding fresh cash in and filling up at least some of that hole from the investment losses.
 
If the higher paying position provides more job satisfaction despite longer hours, it may worth pursuing. Dominic Orr, a CEO of a networking company, became a success (financially) at the expense of his family life.

How Dominic Orr almost ruined his life - Oct. 30, 2007

Perhaps, but I'd rather find a way to make my fortune without having to sacrifice my personal time. This may require taking a few weeks off to brainstorm about "the next big idea" or get a better idea about my next move.
 
To Brewer and SurfDaddy's point about the seeming pittance additional cash contributions make...

I know the syndrome but can only say after having been through up and downturns... the additional cash may seem a pittance during good years like this, but during years of negative returns it can really help, if only psychologically, to know that you are adding fresh cash in and filling up at least some of that hole from the investment losses.


They do indeed help. But the simple math shows that they make far, far less of a difference than those early cash infusions.
 
Hi Folks,

So what’s my point? I don’t know I guess. Just something on my mind as I get closer to RE. How do you strike the balance? Is there a balance? How much is enough? Etc.

Tomcat98

Tomcat, thank you for bring this up, and I'm glad to see that your diplomatic skills has caused the villagers to decide against stoning you to death. :)

Another thing that nobody ever seems (dare?) to bring up is that work can be engrossing and fun. After 3.5 years on this board on and off under my previous incarnation as BunsofVeal, I have not read many stories on people who enjoyed what they do. It could be that work is just awful for everyone and that there is no such thing as enjoyable work, or it could be that finding interesting work is really hard and that the people who congregate on this board comprise the small percentage of people who don't enjoy what they do but are good at it anyways and thus have amassed enough money to think about quiting early. I don't know.

I must confess that I'm not the original thinker on this topic. If you read Paul Graham at all, you'll find that he discusses the topic eloquently in "Doing What You Love." He points out doing what you love to do doesn't mean doing leisure activities or satisfying your every whim because that kind of stuff gets old, and you'll require every greater highs whatever the highs may be.

To over-worked wage slaves, that is a nice thought experiment but no more than that. That is what I used to think until I had the chance to try the leisure route for 4 months last year between quitting my job and starting grad school, and towards the end of my summer vacation, I couldn't wait to dive back into work. OK, I have to admit that after 6 months in grad school, I couldn't wait to get back out of it. The difference though is that after grad school, I could look back and say that I did so much more with my life in that 1 year than I had done with any 5 year period in my previous life as an engineer. I did my CFA exam despite not knowing the difference between an expense and a prepaid expense 8 months before the exam, I ran the student council's finances, I did a case competition on top of that, and I learned to salsa and recalled my skirt chasing skills. LOL. I know that I still don't know a lot, but I now know what invigorates me, and that to me is priceless.

What can I say about the 4 months that I had off? OK, I did some studying, visited some really great museums, and got some really great lap dances (not in the museums). That's it.

If you watch interviews of veterans, battlefield doctors, or NFL greats, they would invariably recall with fondness the period of life that challenged them to use every skill, every reserve, and every last bit of ingenuity they had or didn't know they had to rise to the occasion, and everything afterwards seems as if something is missing. It can't all be a coincidence.
 
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Another thing that nobody ever seems (dare?) to bring up is that work can be engrossing and fun.
Yes, it can. My take on it is that those folks who find their work engrossing and fun tend not to be interested in finding and posting on a board devoted to ER. Self-selection.

Question: If you had, tomorrow, enough capital to indefinately maintain your current lifestyle, what would you change about your work?
 
I would go all out and work for a startup or VC instead of working for a startup that just got bought by a large company. I have come to realize that I do like running the finances of a small-to-medium-sized tech company.
 
Another thing that nobody ever seems (dare?) to bring up is that work can be engrossing and fun. After 3.5 years on this board on and off under my previous incarnation as BunsofVeal, I have not read many stories on people who enjoyed what they do.
I recall seeing quite a few people mention that they liked or even loved their jobs for many years before they decided to RE. Maybe I noticed it more than you because I was one of them. But at a certain point the perceived advantages of freedom from work outweigh the benefits of continued working and FIRE planning sets in. By the time we look into a board like this the joys of work are no longer on our minds.

I have to admit that, having been reasonably satisfied with work for many years, I envied those who truly loved their work - those people who wake up eagerly anticipating getting in to work. But they are rare birds. There is lots of counsel out there about the advantages in finding a job that matches your "passion." - marrying your vocation with your avocation, etc. But that is a lot easier said than done. Many of us were never able to "identify our passion" at all, let alone find a way to get paid doing it. I suspect many of the young dreamers on this board fit that category.

The upside of the equation is that, for many of us who FIRE, we find that we love what we do once we are free of a job. Maybe one of the reasons is that we don't have to do anything.
 
I am in complete agreement with UncleMick. Spending time with many "older" people and listening to what they have to say has taught me that I do not want to regret "not" doing things. This includes not saving for my future/retirement, nor passing on the fun opportunities that land on my radar. If I can make a trip work financially, I am there! The memories will be priceless! Fingers crossed that I can hang out with my cronies in my 80's+ discussing the good ol days/adventures...and that there will not be enough time to rehash them all!
 
Tomcat, thank you for bring this up, and I'm glad to see that your diplomatic skills has caused the villagers to decide against stoning you to death. :)
Another thing that nobody ever seems (dare?) to bring up is that work can be engrossing and fun. After 3.5 years on this board on and off under my previous incarnation as BunsofVeal, I have not read many stories on people who enjoyed what they do. It could be that work is just awful for everyone and that there is no such thing as enjoyable work, or it could be that finding interesting work is really hard and that the people who congregate on this board comprise the small percentage of people who don't enjoy what they do but are good at it anyways and thus have amassed enough money to think about quiting early. I don't know.
I agree-- this is a good thread.

However, BGF, I think that you're describing "demographic self-selection". On this board, you'll only hear from the people who love what they do after they've stopped loving it. The people who still love what they do would never even conceive of the existence of this board, let alone go looking for it.

There is enjoyable work out there, but it doesn't last forever... or the enjoyable parts become mired in the administrivia and smothered by the bureaucracy.

I must confess that I'm not the original thinker on this topic. If you read Paul Graham at all, you'll find that he discusses the topic eloquently in "Doing What You Love." He points out doing what you love to do doesn't mean doing leisure activities or satisfying your every whim because that kind of stuff gets old, and you'll require every greater highs whatever the highs may be.
I'm going to go out on a limb speculating that Graham is not a surfer, nor even a very persistent golfer.

I've never sucked at anything in my life as much as I sucked at learning surfing. Every time I paddle out I find something to work on and do differently, something to do better, or something that I've never seen before. That never gets old. My leg muscles still quiver with fatigue when I stagger back onto the beach, and I may want to go kick Chris "Younger Next Year" Crowley's ass, but the highs don't need to get higher.

If you watch interviews of veterans, battlefield doctors, or NFL greats, they would invariably recall with fondness the period of life that challenged them to use every skill, every reserve, and every last bit of ingenuity they had or didn't know they had to rise to the occasion, and everything afterwards seems as if something is missing. It can't all be a coincidence.
First, at the time they got into those situations they were thinking "Holy crap, how did I get into this situation-- and how the #$%^ am I gonna get the flock out of it?!?"

I had a CO who observed "Every useful piece of submarine intelligence was obtained by guys who got into way too much trouble in a position they were never supposed to be at." (He was also emphasizing that he'd prefer I leave those decisions to his discretion, but that's another story.) Those survivors should be every bit as happy to avoid repeating those experiences as they are to have survived them.

Second, a frightening minority of these guys are testosterone-poisoned adrenaline junkies. If they keep groping for that point of maximum performance, eventually they're gonna find out that it falls short of surviving the experience.

Finally, the feeling that many of those guys have afterward is often known as "survivor guilt". As we hear from most WWII veterans, I think it's important to cherish the past, but I'm also going to spend my time seeing what I can do about the future. That's what I think is missing from the minds of those who can't stop re-living the past glories. We're supposed to learn from those experiences, not stay trapped in them.
 
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