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Old 08-13-2014, 02:39 AM   #21
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I think you would be well advised to accept that you made a mistake and immediately seek alternative employment. Sticking around for another six months, in the hope that things may somehow become better due to factors entirely outside of your control (new leadership, more support from management, lower co-worker turnover), isn't terribly prudent.

Continuing into 2015 will effectively preclude robinplunder's suggestion that you simply omit reference to Company 4 on your résumé: thus aggravating your 'job hopping' concern. And perhaps more importantly, when you are frustrated, bored and disengaged you are unlikely to do your best work, and so run the risk of permanent damage to your professional reputation (most industries are 'small worlds', and word does get around).

"If at any times we must deal in extremes, then we prefer the quiet, good-natured hypocrite to the implacable, turbulent zealot of any kind. In plain terms, we are not so fond of any set of notions, as to think them more important than the peace of society". John Toland, The Description of Epsom (1711)
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:16 AM   #22
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The best way to get a higher salary is to jump ship. Internal promotions are a joke.

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Old 08-30-2014, 11:26 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
In my industry, EPC, (Engineering, Procurement, Construction), senior management is overwhelmingly populated by people who have been exceedingly disloyal to their previous employers (i.e., serial job-hoppers).

So, it's all industry-dependent.

Me, being a wage-slave with 25+ years of service at the same company, some people look at me like I have a 3rd eye growing out of my forehead ("WTF is wrong with that old guy?"). If you consider 51 as old.
Were in similar industries, my experiences (and path) was to move to new positions to advance my knowledge, professional growth and salary.

During your 20's & 30's its natural to want to work yourself up the corporate ladder, and if your current situation isn't fulfilling you should move on. However, after too many moves, new employers seem to frown upon a candidate who cant seem to stay in one place too long

After many moves I find myself in what could be the last job I ever hold. Although it is higher paying, its also one of the most intense positions I've held, I was recently recruited by a head hunter and excepted a job interview...just to talk... that particular manager picked my resume apart and asked for reasons for leaving each and every job.
Funny some companies can churn through 10-15 employees over a 30 year span but frown upon a candidate having 10-12 jobs over the same time period

Jump while your young, stay and plant yourself when you find a home.....the grass isn't always greener
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Old 12-23-2014, 07:48 AM   #24
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I figured I would post an update on this situation since we are a few months down the road.

I am still in the same position, although I did take the advice presented in these forums to try and find alternative employment with the intention of leaving the current position off my resume. Admittedly I did not search as hard as I have during other job searches, but I feel I did look around enough to have given a solid effort. Part of the reason I probably did not search harder was because I did have an opportunity at another firm present itself through a pretty good connection that I have and I felt good about my ability to land that role. Unfortunately that position did not work out. So ultimately I am still in the same role I was in earlier this year.

As for the job itself, it has improved, although I think my plan has changed a bit based on what has happened over the past few months.

Our new Director started in August and quit less than two months later. If that isn't a bad omen then I don't know what it is. It makes me also think that my perceptions about how this department is run are fairly accurate as in my experience people do not take that level of role and leave just 8 weeks later very often. But I am not sure if it just ended up not being a good fit for him. Either way, it caused some additional chaos within the group.

As part of the fallout of that move, I am now reporting to my former bosses boss, and that will be a permanent role. That has brought some stability to the job as she has been with the firm for 33 years and is very well respected in the organization. She is smart and in my opinion a reasonable manager. Probably a little bit too laid back, but I would rather work for someone too laid back then too high strung and controlling. So all in all, I have ended up with a pretty good boss out of all of this. In addition, because of the attrition on the team this year it benefited me by getting a performance review that scored in the highest ratings HR allows. My current boss felt that as a team we all rallied despite the adversity and she enough clout in the organization to avoid being forced to rate her team on the forced curve. I personally don't feel I earned that, but I will take it.

In addition, due to the turnover the company has offered a retention bonus to everyone on our team to stick around. The bonus is 15% of base salary. 10% is paid out by July 2015, the remaining 5% is paid out in July 2016. At this point there's no way I am leaving prior to July of this year because the retention bonus is substantial. The retention bonus is obviously very nice but has me wondering. I am assuming retention bonuses aren't handed out at my level unless you are really worried about attrition.

The job itself has been up and down. It is better than where I was 6 months ago. However, the instability in the role (essentially 4 bosses since February) is something I haven't dealt with in my professional career, but I think we have stabilized some in that regard which has given some direction to the role. During my performance review my new/current boss outlined what her expectations were from me and we had a discussion about some of the things I think we should be looking at "bigger picture" to build our department and program. This is big for me as one of my biggest issues is that I did not feel my position was well defined or explained to me when I started. The manager who hired me was very vague about expectations. My current boss is supportive and essentially given me free reign to accomplish my performance goals however I feel is necessary. To me this is a good thing as one of my primary issues with this job has been (as I mentioned before) lack of management support. Plus, the freedom she has given me will allow me to work on some projects that I think can help the team that I raised with some of the other managers I worked for in this role, but ultimately did not get supported on.

My team itself has been split into two groups essentially. My side (more business related) and the quantitative side (PhDs with technical backgrounds in statistics, mathematics, economics, etc). The quant side has a new manager now (new role that did not previously exist), and I think he is a good fit for the team and has brought another degree of stability to the group. I personally have not gotten along well with my coworkers as I feel there is no accountability among them and they don't care about whether or not they meet deadlines......our team is constantly missing deadlines. So I think the new manager on the quant side will help with that. He seems to get the bigger picture and he and I have had some discussions on how to coordinate our job functions better since we interact regularly.

So in a nutshell, for better or for worse I am stuck in this job still, although I think we have more stability than we did 4-5 months ago. Going in to 2015 I am more optimistic about the work itself and think I have the opportunity, support and freedom to work on some projects that are going to help me professionally. I think at this point I am going to stay in this role until at the very least next Oct/Nov. I am getting married in September and want the stability this role brings up until the wedding at least, plus the majority of the retention bonus comes pre-wedding.

I am still skeptical of the position, but feel there is legit reason for optimism. Plus I really do not want to add another "black mark" on my resume. I think there are enough professional and financial reasons to stick around in this role for most of this year. After that I plan to stay with the company, either in this role or in another position for another year or two. Obviously things can change if another opportunity comes up that is just too good to pass up, or if I get laid off, but that's the current plan. It's a rocky road and not perfect, but I think that things have turned a corner for now in this role. It has been a learning experience if nothing else.

Thanks for reading and sorry for the long post!
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Old 12-26-2014, 05:04 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by onebigdummy View Post
The best way to get a higher salary is to jump ship. Internal promotions are a joke.
I can attest to that. I was given a retention bonus, but I wasn't making squat. the best retention bonus with that company was the one I gave myself when I jumped ship and earned a 47% raise.
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:58 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Socal Tom View Post
I agree with Robinplunder. I would also toss your resume if I got it. As I hiring manager I've found that most recent college grads think that work should be exciting and fun all, the time, and after two years they should be promoted to CEO. They often leave their first job after two,years looking for the job where that is true. Then at the second job they figure out work is not all sunshine and butterflies, so they start to contribute. Some people never figure that out. The 4 years at company three helps, but you need to stay at least 2 years.Either get out now, and don't discuss this job, or stay for at least 3 years.

My suggestion to the OP:

1). Suck it up and build some resume stability...I don't directly hire more junior folks anymore, but if one of my directs showed up with your resume as a finalist warning bells would go off as it would strike me as someone who is simply prone to being unhappy and then run away

2). If/when you do move, make sure you're running towards something and not merely away from what you currently have...and ensure that what you're running towards isn't the illusion of an always-fulfilling, stress free work environment

Good luck. Sounds like you've got good education and good skills...just keep your chin up and keep moving forward!
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Old 12-28-2014, 09:40 PM   #27
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Good luck Klubbie, Im struggling with a very similar work situation. Same phase of my career as you as well.

Thank God for FIRE, I don't understand how people can put up with working the same job for 35 years. Or even 5 years.
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Old 12-29-2014, 11:57 AM   #28
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Back in mega corp I hired many SW engineers .... problem we faced was a 2 year training period before you made an iota of contribution. That's not to say those in training didn't THINK they were contributing.

So any resume with multiple jumps less than 2 years went to the round file.
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:31 AM   #29
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My view was that one job hop was allowed if it was followed by 3-4 years at a company.
So if the OP had left after one year, it wouldn't be a red flag, but if the next company didn't work out, I would have been a round filed also.
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Old 12-30-2014, 03:52 AM   #30
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Times have changed. My father worked for the same MegaCorp for over 40 years. The longest tenure I had with a company was 11 years. Recently I read the current US average is about 4 years.

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Old 12-30-2014, 09:40 AM   #31
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Times have changed. My father worked for the same MegaCorp for over 40 years. The longest tenure I had with a company was 11 years. Recently I read the current US average is about 4 years.
It also seems to depend on the industry. In high tech, we see lots of resumes with 1-2 years in a series of jobs. It is off-putting to employers because the person is likely to move on again after only a year or two after we hire them. I'd rather hire someone who has at least one job in the history with a longer tenure and more is even better.

I've had engineers tell me they were happy in their current job but "need" to move on because they have been at the same employer for almost two years. It seems to be an expectation that if they do not change jobs and technologies every couple years they will get stale and miss out on future opportunities.
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Old 12-31-2014, 07:51 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by robnplunder View Post
This type of resume is the 1st one to throw into reject file. Putting in another short stint in your resume will close the door more for companies who otherwise may consider you.

I think I'd update my resume to say you worked odd/temp jobs through grad school and then maybe start out with the 2009 summer intern job.

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