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Old 01-19-2009, 09:56 PM   #81
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I am 34 and I cannot wait to retire!
I have been working for 20 years and I am tired of work. I work part time right now and go to school......love every minute of it.
I have had some crazy bosses over the year and have realized that I can stand working for myself better! I work hard when I have to and I have no problems playing and taking time for myself. I hate structured days just like I hate structured meal times and menus.
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Old 01-19-2009, 11:47 PM   #82
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Also, no disrespect to haha, but one of my coworkers had an M5,
and you really won't be able to appreciate it unless you plan to spend
a lot of time on a track (or maybe in Montana).
Save your money.-LB
LOL! You may be right. I believe it a basic philosophical decision, or perhaps it could be a matter of genes, or parental emphasis. My Dad always said- be sure to have fun every day.

For me, as I get older, I am glad for the money I spent while young having fun. If I hadn't had a back injury recently which kind of holds be back I would want to go as hard as ever-though perhaps trying to do it on the cheap!

I could have more now had I lived differently, and to be sure I would like more. But as the song says-

Money can't buy back, your youth when you're old
Or a friend when you're lonesome, or a love that's grown cold
The wealthiest person, is a pauper at times
Compared to the man, with a satisfied mind


Ha
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Old 01-20-2009, 08:05 AM   #83
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Another thing about FI is that it makes it a lot easier to sleep through economic times like these. Even if you don't *want* stop w*rking, at least if you're given a pink slip anyway your future is still reasonably secure. Without FI a terrible job market is a lot more scary.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:42 PM   #84
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LOL! You may be right. I believe it a basic philosophical decision, or perhaps it could be a matter of genes, or parental emphasis. My Dad always said- be sure to have fun every day.

For me, as I get older, I am glad for the money I spent while young having fun. If I hadn't had a back injury recently which kind of holds be back I would want to go as hard as ever-though perhaps trying to do it on the cheap!

I could have more now had I lived differently, and to be sure I would like more. But as the song says-

Money can't buy back, your youth when you're old
Or a friend when you're lonesome, or a love that's grown cold
The wealthiest person, is a pauper at times
Compared to the man, with a satisfied mind


Ha
Very nice. I have the best of both worlds, enough money now, and satisfying memories from earlier. And I owe them all to having gone to a woman's college the year after it went coed. Ahhh, the memories!
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:37 PM   #85
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Wow... such a great question... And asked in earnest as well. I think the answer to "why retire early" is pretty simple. No matter what you do... or who you are, your time is the most valuable possession any of us will ever own. Life is a game in which sadly.... none of us gets out alive. So that means that each of us is given 80 or so years to do, see, and experience everything we want to... and there are no do-overs or time extensions granted.

So each moment of our lives is certainly precious. And one of the worst crimes you can commit to another human being... is to purposely waste their time. Because that time wasted can never be brought back.... at any price. Obviously we need to accumulate a certain amount of money to live on, but after that, you need to start asking yourself, "How much time do I really have left to do and see all of those things I have been wanting to?" As you start getting older and realizing that "tomorrow" will not always be there... you start to understand that your time and what you want to do with it are increasingly more important. Which is more important to you..... working another 10+ hours a week, or watching your children grow up? Being a "team player" at work, or taking that once in a lifetime trip to far away location? Remember.... only 80 years or so.... and all of the choices are yours...
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:21 PM   #86
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............<snip>.........Obviously we need to accumulate a certain amount of money to live on, but after that, you need to start asking yourself, "How much time do I really have left to do and see all of those things I have been wanting to?" As you start getting older and realizing that "tomorrow" will not always be there... you start to understand that your time and what you want to do with it are increasingly more important. Which is more important to you..... working another 10+ hours a week, or watching your children grow up? Being a "team player" at work, or taking that once in a lifetime trip to far away location? Remember.... only 80 years or so.... and all of the choices are yours...
Well put. I remember being chastised by a coworker (middle management) for taking a full 3 weeks off to go to Kenya. I told him that when I'm on my death bed, the last thoughts going through my head sure as heck were not going to be about all the great time I had on the new product launch. He's still there, I've been FIRED almost 2 years.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:47 PM   #87
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And one of the worst crimes you can commit to another human being... is to purposely waste their time. Because that time wasted can never be brought back.... at any price.
What does it take to beat that into the thick skulls of the bureaucrats at the megacorps I have worked at? We spent more time to justify and to provide detail accounting and reporting on our work than to perform the work itself. They seemed to believe that their purpose in life was to hassle the people who actually produced, to tell them how to hold their mouth while performing certain tasks. Off with their heads!

Reading earlier posts in this thread, I see that my reason to RE is quite common. I loved and was proud of my work. Could not say the same of many people I worked with and worked for.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:54 PM   #88
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I told him that when I'm on my death bed, the last thoughts going through my head sure as heck were not going to be about all the great time I had on the new product launch.
For a long time in the Space Program - that worked. Then came a time when it didn't.

Now the sheer ecstasy of doing nothing in particular and taking the time to do it right - totally floats my boat.

heh heh heh -
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:51 PM   #89
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Buy the M3. Unbelievable car, and it sure won't hurt your social life either. When you are young, you don't know where your ceiling is. Not only will you have more fun, but it might just work out better if you go on the assumption that you will be a big earner.

Soon enough you will know where you stand in the food chain. Then, if need be, you can start straining glass out of broken peanut butter jars and washing baggies.

OTOH, if you have made it, you can live very well your entire life.

Ha
Unless Haha has sharpened his sarcasm to a razor's edge, I agree with Haha because I have driven a nice shiny new sports car, and I have driven a POS (three actually), and a shiny new sports car certainly helped even though all the PC stuff told me that it shouldn't have helped. I had offer from a hot young single mom to come over in her bikini to wash my car with me, and she wasn't kidding.

However, there is a compromise. You can get a nice 4-year-old Porsche Boxster or BMW 3 series (though probably not an M3) for $20k-$25k. It will serve as a bridge between the LBYM social circle and your hotshot young lawyer social set. You can't beg out of the latter because you need that social circle to further your career.
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:16 PM   #90
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Unless Haha has sharpened his sarcasm to a razor's edge, I agree with Haha because I have driven a nice shiny new sports car, and I have driven a POS (three actually), and a shiny new sports car certainly helped even though all the PC stuff told me that it shouldn't have helped. I had offer from a hot young single mom to come over in her bikini to wash my car with me, and she wasn't kidding.
You want to know how it feels to be misunderstood? Just ask Ha. I was completely serious.


Back to the M3, once you get married you likely will not get the M3, except perhaps right before your divorce, sooo...


ha
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Old 01-21-2009, 03:07 AM   #91
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I retired after 29 years in law enforcement. As a pilot described a career in aviation it was "hours of boredom punctuated by moments of terror". Or just being grossed out, amazed at how stupid people can be, frustrated by courts populated by judges who live in clouds and apparently have little contact with the real world, and on and on.

Or as one retiring police officer said "You get a front row seat to the greatest show on earth - the human race." You also get frustrated by astonishingly stupid bureaucracy, paperwork nitpicking, and people who think the police write the laws or can ignore them at a whim.

Where I worked the vast majority of those who make it 10 years retire between 20 and 25 years. Twenty-five to thirty percent go out on permanent disability from injuries. Eight were killed. If I was 22 I'd do it again.

But at the same time, when it's time to go you will know.

Bummed around for a while, decompressed for a few years, started looking for something else. Some can enjoy doing nothing all day and I did like doing that for a while, but going for walks, fishing, bike riding, watching History channel, radio control airplanes, all faded in interest for me. Before retirement it sounded ideal, but the reality didn't work out for me.

Retirement did help my marriage though. We're a lot closer now than ever before.

So I got a job doing security work at a gummint installation for between three and five days a week, depending on who's off. Most often it's four days on, three off. Actually worked one hour of overtime a few weeks ago. So far it seems a good fit, and I bought a new motorcycle with some of the income. This summer I might take a few weeks off and go for a long ride.
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Old 01-21-2009, 07:44 PM   #92
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Buy the M3. Unbelievable car, and it sure won't hurt your social life either. When you are young, you don't know where your ceiling is. Not only will you have more fun, but it might just work out better if you go on the assumption that you will be a big earner.

Soon enough you will know where you stand in the food chain. Then, if need be, you can start straining glass out of broken peanut butter jars and washing baggies.

OTOH, if you have made it, you can live very well your entire life.

Ha
Not sure I agree, ha. Who has more potential for trouble, the young guy who lives high on the hog until they find that they really cannot, or the young guy who lives a more moderate lifestyle until they discover that they can afford more? Its also a lot more painful to significantly cut back your lifestyle than it is to expand it.

And it presumes that one gives a rat's patoot about cars. Happy to have my 6 YO wagon that is worth 5k or less because I don't care about cars and I don't have to worry about it. An M3? Would be a source of aggravation more than anything else. And DW would not appreciate hot single moms appearing in their bikinis (and they would have to be awfully dedicated right now with the 15F weather and no garage).
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Old 01-21-2009, 07:48 PM   #93
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Have to admit you guys have good points.

Ha
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:30 PM   #94
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Not sure I agree, ha. Who has more potential for trouble, the young guy who lives high on the hog until they find that they really cannot, or the young guy who lives a more moderate lifestyle until they discover that they can afford more? Its also a lot more painful to significantly cut back your lifestyle than it is to expand it.

And it presumes that one gives a rat's patoot about cars. Happy to have my 6 YO wagon that is worth 5k or less because I don't care about cars and I don't have to worry about it. An M3? Would be a source of aggravation more than anything else. And DW would not appreciate hot single moms appearing in their bikinis (and they would have to be awfully dedicated right now with the 15F weather and no garage).
Good point..

I think the M3 is symbolic. I happen to be a car guy, but insert whatever it is that you enjoy (boat, clothes, watches, vacations, nice dinners). Put differently, spending on depreciating (or dispensible) consumer items is not limited to auto-mobiles.

Anyhow, your point about expanding as opposed to contracting really hit home with me.

I get alot of satisfaction from working toward medium-long term goals. School has consumed the past 7 years of my life. I am assuming that my career will consume the next 20-30 years. Right now, I am in a transistion phase (i.e. studying for the Bar), and have had some time to reflect on my accomplishments as well as putting some meaningfull thought on where I want to go in life as well as how I will get there.

Thanks again for your post.
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:31 PM   #95
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Have to admit you guys have good points.

Ha

And so would Brewers single moms.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:06 PM   #96
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Not sure I agree, ha. Who has more potential for trouble, the young guy who lives high on the hog until they find that they really cannot, or the young guy who lives a more moderate lifestyle until they discover that they can afford more? Its also a lot more painful to significantly cut back your lifestyle than it is to expand it.

And it presumes that one gives a rat's patoot about cars. Happy to have my 6 YO wagon that is worth 5k or less because I don't care about cars and I don't have to worry about it. An M3? Would be a source of aggravation more than anything else. And DW would not appreciate hot single moms appearing in their bikinis (and they would have to be awfully dedicated right now with the 15F weather and no garage).
The caveat is that if you're married or significantly attached, don't spend the money on attracting single moms who offer free bikini car washes. BTW, that bikini show was in California where it was hot enough that you could get away with it if you had the body.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:06 PM   #97
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And so would Brewers single moms.
It always comes back to this, doesn't it?
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:43 AM   #98
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To answer the original question - my motivation is time - the goal of spending it doing what I want to do with it - with my family, and pursuing my interests.

About controlling spending when going straight from college to a 6 figure income. Well, I'd say some controlled splurging is probably in order to reward yourself for making it through 7 years of college, and in a very challenging degree. BUT...there is a deadly trap you have to avoid. The splurging phase can rapidly turn into the longer term financial commitment phase. You have the 6 figure salary, but you now also have the payment on the 450,000 house, the 80,000 car, a ton of credit card debt to make payments on, and so on and so forth. Suddenly, despite the great salary, you can find yourself living month to month. Now, you must continue to make the great salary, just to get by.

So, with that sobering thought out of the way, the best way to avoid that is to just think through how much the thing you are thinking about buying is really going to cost, and compare that to how much enjoyment you expect to get out of it.

Ok, an example... Being a bit of a car guy myself, a couple of years ago I was starting to get lustful thoughts about a corvette. Between bouts of uncontrollable drooling, here's how I thought about it, and eventually this made me decide not to get it. To figure out the cost, I took the cost of the vette and subtracted the cost of a reasonably nice normal car, say an impala. The reason for this math was that I wanted to separate the cost of the need for a car, from the cost of the emotional desire to get the corvette. So, about a 30k difference, maybe a little more. Then I figured I'd spend about another 12k in finance charges over 5 years, about 7k of that attributable to the "desire" portion of the cost. So, 37k now for the desire part. Then I figured with retirement at least 15 yrs away, over that period, that 37k could grow to 75k quite easily if invested in something other than a corvette.

Then I tried to figure out how much enjoyment I'd get from the real cost of 75k or so. I knew that for the first month, every time I saw it in the drive I'd be like "Oooooo", but after that the "Oooo"'s would only come ever 2 or 3 days, then only occasionally, and eventually it would just be another set of wheels to me. In the end, I figured I'd probably be paying about a grand for every time I said "Ooooo". Not worth it.
All of that said, I do splurge now and again, but I make sure it's on stuff I'll get lasting enjoyment from. I love playing guitar, and have spent about 2000.00 on my amp, and another 1000.00 on my main guitar. A fair bit of change for a hobby, but I get hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of that every year, so to me, those kinds of things are worth spending a bit on.

Off topic - I noticed that in the other thread about your parents that you are from the DFW area. Me too. Work in Dallas, live up in Allen.
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:47 AM   #99
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Then I tried to figure out how much enjoyment I'd get from the real cost of 75k or so. I knew that for the first month, every time I saw it in the drive I'd be like "Oooooo", but after that the "Oooo"'s would only come ever 2 or 3 days, then only occasionally, and eventually it would just be another set of wheels to me. In the end, I figured I'd probably be paying about a grand for every time I said "Ooooo". Not worth it.
This is what research into happiness and habituation suggests. For myself only, although I have to avoid spending more than I am comfortable with, I tend to get ongoing satisfaction from something like a car that pleases me. It doesn't seem to wear off, unless I fail to keep it nice.

Ha
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Old 01-25-2009, 11:00 AM   #100
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To answer the original question - my motivation is time - the goal of spending it doing what I want to do with it - with my family, and pursuing my interests.

About controlling spending when going straight from college to a 6 figure income. Well, I'd say some controlled splurging is probably in order to reward yourself for making it through 7 years of college, and in a very challenging degree. BUT...there is a deadly trap you have to avoid. The splurging phase can rapidly turn into the longer term financial commitment phase. You have the 6 figure salary, but you now also have the payment on the 450,000 house, the 80,000 car, a ton of credit card debt to make payments on, and so on and so forth. Suddenly, despite the great salary, you can find yourself living month to month. Now, you must continue to make the great salary, just to get by.

So, with that sobering thought out of the way, the best way to avoid that is to just think through how much the thing you are thinking about buying is really going to cost, and compare that to how much enjoyment you expect to get out of it.

Ok, an example... Being a bit of a car guy myself, a couple of years ago I was starting to get lustful thoughts about a corvette. Between bouts of uncontrollable drooling, here's how I thought about it, and eventually this made me decide not to get it. To figure out the cost, I took the cost of the vette and subtracted the cost of a reasonably nice normal car, say an impala. The reason for this math was that I wanted to separate the cost of the need for a car, from the cost of the emotional desire to get the corvette. So, about a 30k difference, maybe a little more. Then I figured I'd spend about another 12k in finance charges over 5 years, about 7k of that attributable to the "desire" portion of the cost. So, 37k now for the desire part. Then I figured with retirement at least 15 yrs away, over that period, that 37k could grow to 75k quite easily if invested in something other than a corvette.

Then I tried to figure out how much enjoyment I'd get from the real cost of 75k or so. I knew that for the first month, every time I saw it in the drive I'd be like "Oooooo", but after that the "Oooo"'s would only come ever 2 or 3 days, then only occasionally, and eventually it would just be another set of wheels to me. In the end, I figured I'd probably be paying about a grand for every time I said "Ooooo". Not worth it.
All of that said, I do splurge now and again, but I make sure it's on stuff I'll get lasting enjoyment from. I love playing guitar, and have spent about 2000.00 on my amp, and another 1000.00 on my main guitar. A fair bit of change for a hobby, but I get hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of that every year, so to me, those kinds of things are worth spending a bit on.

Off topic - I noticed that in the other thread about your parents that you are from the DFW area. Me too. Work in Dallas, live up in Allen.
Thanks so much for your post. That is an excellent way to put it. I too have sought after the c6 corvette (z06, black) but also came to the same conclusion for similar reasons.

It seems to me, to buy a car like that you should, perhaps, be FI or well on your way.

BTW, we live in plano off of spring creek, so not to far away.
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