Advice for childless couple?

[Sunset]

who has two incomes?

A couple without children should have 2 incomes, in all fairness.

 

[Big_Hitter]

A couple without children should have 2 incomes, in all fairness.

not this couple

Mrs. Hitter has been FIRED since 1996

 

[Aerides]

Hmmmm - I'm also seeing a pattern here, of a lot of ERers who have no children, and possible can ER because of it.
Just saying

Rich

I think for a lot of folks here, kids would have pushed the "E" out of ER. Or at least tacked a decade on to the plan date. Those that do manage to ER with kids - my hat is off. That must take some very early planning and responsible financial management starting way back when I was still being very stupid (ie, my 20's).

And yes it's a great way to cut off the "but how can you afford to...." looks. Just saying Oh well we never made babies, and you see the lightbulbs flicker on.

 

[Sunset]

We are in the same kind of boat, and there is no easy answer.

Professional's don't really care, and are dangerous as they will collect their money while doing (ordering, managing) as little as possible.
Children are no guarantee of anything as I have seen some pretty uncaring, irresponsible, greedy, selfish children.

Too bad you can't have a will that says, "if Johnny didn't take care of me or get proper care for me he gets $1MM less, and that $1MM goes to the city food bank."

 

[bjorn2bwild]

My plan - I'm going all in on morbidity compression.

 

[socca]

Too bad you can't have a will that says, "if Johnny didn't take care of me or get proper care for me he gets $1MM less, and that $1MM goes to the city food bank."

You can do this using a trust. I'm definitely not suggesting that you should do this, but it's an option.

 

[Scuba]

CCRC's definitely provide a level of safety and support, but CCRC staff doesn't advocate for you when you have to go to the hospital nor will they manage their residents' finances generally speaking. Will check out the fiduciary idea, thanks.


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[Totoro]

Still young by this forum standards so alot can happen, but in the same boat too. No children, no spouse. Highly doubt either one of those will happen.

One distinct option are two nieces, but since they're only 8 and 5 who knows how that'll turn out. Also brother and his wife, about the same age as I am so ..

Not too worried if I stay in relatively ok shape mentally, or if degradation is slow, and financially I can stay in good shape.

If things go south quite sudden, I'll be very much at risk.

Note for the couples: relying on each other is fine for one of you, the other one will be left alone in the end so you have the same issues in the end as me.

I'm seeing this right now with my grandfather: he needs care and relies on his children. His wife passed away this year (and needed care too). In the last years too he wasn't really capable of taking care of his wife himself, so children helped out there as well. So there is that.

 

[DrRoy]

Assisted living housing would seem like an option to consider.

 

[old woman]

I am childless and have one nephew I will use to take care of my money and a niece to oversee my caregivers. The niece owns a care giving agency and oversaw my mom's hospice care.

 

[Sunset]

Assisted living housing would seem like an option to consider.

Would work somewhat while you are there, but if you fall down the stairs and get taken to hospital, you are on your own.
The staff at Assisted Living housing, probably don't get involved in your finances as I easily imagine most families would consider it too easy for the staff to steal, so largely you would be on your own to pay bills, turn down Nigerian princes, etc.

I know of a lady I know, who is in assisted living, and has dementia and Millions of dollars, she is aggressive, abusive, and the staff pretty much ignore her to the point of unsanitary conditions. She has about 4 children, but locally, but to my shock, none are willing to step in and deal with the situation. Very sad.

 

[audreyh1]

I'm have some much younger siblings that can help at least with oversight - a small amount. But in general I imagine going the continuing care route more or less. I'll try to have some professional relationships set up, but also have family involved for oversight.

 

[braumeister]

I'm fortunate to have a few good friends who are 20-30 years younger. I cherish them for many reasons.

 

[Brat]

Watching my and my husband's parents at the end of their lives... their friends were aged or had passed away.

If we had no children a CCRC would be the best option.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Hmmmm - I'm also seeing a pattern here, of a lot of ERers who have no children, and possible can ER because of it.
Just saying

Rich

Or folks that have kids aren't interested in this thread. I don't play golf, so I pay no attention to that thread.

Interestingly enough, my DW has two sisters...one is 45 and the other is 31 and none of them have kids and the youngest one just had a tubal ligation done a few months ago. Certainly not the norm!

Sent via mobile device. Please excuse any grammatical errors.

 

[Koolau]

Even with children it is difficult to insure that one has a health-care advocate who will be effective. By that, I mean someone who is willing and able to be present at virtually every doctor and hospital visit. I sat with my mom and dad and DW through all their doctor and hospital visits. Mom and dad lived longer because of it and I believe DW survived because of it. I found numerous mistakes - especially during hospitalizations. Communications Doctor to nursing staff, day shift to night shift, nurse to nurse aid, etc. etc. is virtually a clusterflop ready to happen.

Classic example - DW's doctor called and said her latest x-ray indicated a return of cancer. Going in for the biopsy, there seemed to be some confusion. First one doctor, then a nurse then another doctor left the room and came back into the treatment room as prep was being made (wired for sound, I call it.) Then, someone asked me if DW still had a gall bladder. "No" I said. More whispered discussions and leaving the room. Finally, the person "in charge" said there must have been a mix up in the x-rays and it probably wasn't DW needing a biopsy. They were pretty sure the x-ray had been mis-labled.

Insult to injury, they wanted to charge DW for all the needles and tubes and hospital "setting" she had soiled in her visit. When I suggested I would just add that into the law suit damages, the idea was quickly dropped. I didn't follow through on the law suit idea, but I'm guessing some malpractice insurance co. would have gladly slipped us a few grand had we pushed the issue. Imagine being told you have cancer, only to find out later that they had mixed up the x-rays. That ought to be worth something. I guess the good news is that it wasn't cancer - just a "harmless" mistake.

I did read recently that something like the third leading cause of deaths is mistakes in clinical settings. Whether I read that right or wether it is true, I don't know. Still, we all need to be our own advocate and hope that we have an advocate when we can not be our own.

 

[NW-Bound]

How about the other person whose X-ray was swapped with your DW?

Imagine being told while you are celebrating your erroneous good news: "Please come back in. Contrary to what we told you last week, you've got cancer".

 

[Teacher Terry]

WE have kids that care about us but I would never live with any of them. However, I do expect them to do what we all did for our parents and that was help out as needed, manage finances if needed, visit for a few weeks after surgery to help out, etc. All that the 3 of us did kept my Mom out of a home. I helped my Mom care for my Dad and that kept him out of a home. Now if my Mom had gotten dementia instead of cancer 3x's then she would have had to go into a home. I think it really depends on the circumstances.

 

[growing_older]

While I love the idea of CCRC and have some family experience with them, they are not the answer to everything. My grandmother was a long time CCRC resident and finally moved to the daily nursing support section when she was in her mid 80s. The doctors told family that she had multiple organs failing, cancer and other problems and they had her under a heavy regimen of drugs to keep her comfortable and expect she had 6 months to a year left to live. Luckily her nephew (a doctor) came to visit and blew a gasket. She was being over-medicated and over-sedated. Once he got her off most of the meds she felt a lot better, returned to her lower level assisted care section and lived into her late 90s (more than 10 more years). CCRC was dutifully caring for her, but no one cares as much about a specific patient as family (or the patient themselves, if coherent). A real potential tragedy was averted.

 

[Brat]

Let me share with you my weekend. I live in an apartment building. One of our residents is an elderly bachelor with only a brother (who he doesn't get along with) living on the east coast.

He called the front desk asking for a lift off the floor as he couldn't get up. Staff are prohibited from providing that service for liability reasons. He didn't want to call 911 for assistance. After several calls from him the front desk ignored his protests and called the non-emergency 911 number.

The fire department responded with EMTs. The put the guy in a chair and noticed rotten food around the apartment, told the front desk that they would be notifying county social services because they are concerned about his welfare.

After digging through old notes the front desk was able to contact the brother but he couldn't do much, let along influence the brother from 3,000 miles away.

Next day, phone call to the front desk again. Resident could not get out of the chair the EMTs but him in. No food, no water, no potty trips. Front desk guy went to his apartment and asked permission for the both of them to call his doctor. Reluctantly he agreed. His MD said he needs to be transported to the hospital for evaluation. In our town you call 911, out comes fire truck, in this case (because an MD had been consulted) also an ambulance. One of the EMTs also responded the day before so he clued the others into the resident's status and noted that he hadn't moved.

This resident has an "interesting personality" (no friends, just acquaintances) and judgement issues. Unless he has a miraculous recovery he can't live independently safely but there is no one who can guide his decisions.

If he had been left to his own devices he would be dead today.

There is no perfect solution for those with no one to oversee their healthcare but a CCRC would have been a better choice for him.

 

[razztazz]

a CCRC would have been a better choice for him.

And about what would that run, at the lowest rung , in your parts?

And what would be a good age to sort of "give up" and drop the hammer on a CCRC?

Not being a nudge. Seeking a qualified, even if it's just a "gut" opinion from someone with recent personal experience.

 

[Brat]

Costs & services vary a lot, particularly urban vs small town settings. When we were looking one CCRC did not have nursing beds and had no options for residents with dementia. Crossed them off the list.

Some CCRCs are non-profits, their rates are generally lower - all things being equal. You want to take a hard look at the CCRC's financials particularly if they require a significant deposit. Use this link to screen those in your area: Accreditation Index, Why does accreditation matter? – benefits, fees, programs

I really think people should move while they have a social life. In that way they can make friends in the community.

 

[Turn_the_Page]

DW and I are in the same position. ChildFREE and relatives that we're not sure are that reliable. My brother would do anything for you, but don't let him near money, especially if he thinks his kids need it. Plus, he's very unreliable in stressful situations and I wouldn't trust him to make any medical decisions. I'd probably be on life-support for years. DW's brother's are distant (emotionally).

We're making/keeping friends and choosing to ignore some traits that would have lead us to walk away from them in our younger days. The plan is to keep ahead of it, the best we can. Move into some facility before we need/forced to. Have a financial guy that we (maybe) trust. As we already know, it's the hard medical decisions that are the real challenge.

 

[Act2]

Childfree single here. Yes, CCRC is a great solution so I'm saving my money for that. And I agree that moving while one is young enough to enjoy the social aspect is the best approach. And too much later, one might not qualify for some of the care agreements or independent living. Meanwhile, a great support network of other singles of various ages is helpful. I've got one, but I'm the youngest so we are looking to include a few younger singles in our circle over time. Have made a hospital ER run with one friend and we mutually aid one another regularly.

It's impossible to guess if nieces and nephews will take an active part in my life as I age, and it's not fair or smart to expect them to take a major role. Maybe one of them will, but that cannot be Plan A. If any of them takes an active interest and wants to watch over me, I'll pick a CCRC close to them. One thing I've learned with my parents (and vicariously through friends with parent situations) is that if someone younger is going to help out, the elder needs to be willing to move close to them. Otherwise it is just too hard.


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[athena53]

<snip> The doctors told family that she had multiple organs failing, cancer and other problems and they had her under a heavy regimen of drugs to keep her comfortable and expect she had 6 months to a year left to live.<snip>

Once he got her off most of the meds she felt a lot better, returned to her lower level assisted care section and lived into her late 90s (more than 10 more years).

Wow- scary story. It was certainly more profitable for the CCRC to decide she was near death. I plan to find a CCRC near DS when I get to the point that I don't want to be on my own (I'm 3 hours away from him). He's frugal and sensible but there's a LOT he'll have to watch out for.

I know the thread was directed at childless people but I still had to weigh in on this! It sounds like you not only need to have someone lined up to handle your financial affairs but also have access to an independent medical opinion when needed.