Anti-Aging Medicine

[RonBoyd]

I would be very interested to read about your and Ted's conclusions. Please post the URL of your website here if you go ahead with those plans one day!

+1

 

[Alan]

I like your approach Coolchange and we do something similar. Growing up in England we both got to love the flavor of oily fish such as mackerel and herring, so eating plenty of fish, including oily fish, is no hardship at all. The only supplement we take is a multi-vitamin tablet although I personally would not bother these days but DW says that there is no evidence that it does any harm, and it just might do some good.

We also do lots of, and a big variety of, exercise. We both hope to "square that curve", like both my father and FIL who were very fit and healthy, living in their own house right up to the last few weeks of their lives at ages 84 and 85.

 

[M Paquette]

You guys know that you're going to get old and frail no matter what, right?

Sure, but as long as the liquid helium is topped off, I'll be fine.

 

[TromboneAl]

Not right. "Squaring the curve" means the time of frailty is delayed until the time of death. There's nothing impossible about it in principle. In fact, if you allow for advancing the time of death to before the onset of frailty, it's even easy.

I hope you're right, but I think you might be expecting a little too much.

I've been younger-next-yearing for coming up on three years now. I'd say I feel about as good or better than I did at age 47 (now 57).

In general, that is.

But there are days when I just feel old and tired.

 

[RonBoyd]

The Frozen Dead Guy in Nederland Colorado

Nederland, Colorado, a picturesque little town about 45 miles northwest of Denver claims more than just quaintness, beauty, and the ruggedness of the Rocky Mountains to draw thousands of visitors. It also is home to Grandpa Bredo Morstoel, more commonly known as "The Frozen Dead Guy.”

Morstoel died on November 6, 1989 while at the family’s mountain retreat in Norway and was immediately packed in ice before making the long trip to Los Angeles, California, where he was cryogenically prepped and frozen. Morstoel’s grandson, Trygve Bauge decided that his grandfather should have the opportunity of potential immorality and made the arrangements for his grandfather.

A certain Baseball Player also took this route to anti-aging.

 

[GregLee]

The Frozen Dead Guy in Nederland Colorado

A cryogenic chance at immorality? Hey, cut me some of that!

 

[RonBoyd]

Jane Miller: 'I'm not sure I really will die' | Life and style | The Guardian

A statistic from nowhere, or nowhere I remember, but it has the ring of truth: if most of us can look forward to living for about 10 years longer than our parents, we can also expect to spend the equivalent of eight of those years in hospital or doctors' waiting-rooms. When, at nearly 80, Gore Vidal was asked to explain why he had left Italy for California, he spoke of his future as "the hospital years".

Old people are often told they're "marvellous" for simply being there and not complaining much. As though our longevity or our susceptibility to disease were entirely up to us, were choices we make: pain and illness the outward signs of weakness, vacillation, lack of character; health the well-earned consequence of courage and the right amount of moral fibre. The man or woman who meekly submits to illness and death rather than "fighting" it, "putting up a struggle", is unlikely to figure gloriously in obituary columns.

I woke this morning with an ominous pain on the right side of my chest. There are some good things about new, sharp pains: they tend to blot out the older, more persistent ones. So, unusually, I had no cramp in my legs, nor could I feel the sharp agony and intractable stiffness in the small of my back that greets me on other mornings. The pains of old age are often undiagnosed and perhaps undiagnosable. Since they are usually produced by the gradual, or occasionally sudden, wearing out of bits of our minds and bodies, they are often less frightening than new and inexplicable pains were in one's youth, because for the most part they don't herald serious illness or catastrophe but simply remind us of our general and increasing debility. The bad thing about them, however, is that by and large they are going to get worse.

If I find it painful getting out of bed in the morning, I am likely to find it harder still in five years' time. Then you have to add that, though that is undoubtedly so, it is also quite possible that you won't be there in five years. And given that it's pain you're thinking about, you're faced with a dilemma. Do you really want to be there having a much worse version of the pain that's bothering you now? Might it possibly be a relief not to be there?

 

[GregLee]

Jane Miller: 'I'm not sure I really will die' | Life and style | The Guardian

If I find it painful getting out of bed in the morning, I am likely to find it harder still in five years' time.

Well, maybe, but maybe not. A year ago, I was finding it painful getting out of bed, and I needed 10 minutes or so warm-up before I could walk around without it hurting. I increased the variety and number of repetitions of morning calisthenics I do (push-ups, sit-ups, squats, etc.), and I don't get that pain any more. If Jane is fatalistic and just lets "nature take its course", she'll be right, and it will indeed be harder still. But maybe it doesn't have to be that way.

 

[RonBoyd]

Well, maybe, but maybe not.

Well, come back when you are pushing 80 and see if you still believe she is mistaken.

 

[GregLee]

Well, come back when you are pushing 80 and see if you still believe she is mistaken.

I don't recall saying she was mistaken. Did I say or imply that?

 

[Tigger]

If I find it painful getting out of bed in the morning, I am likely to find it harder still in five years' time.

And that's why we're trying to fight aging.

 

[RonBoyd]

I don't recall saying she was mistaken. Did I say or imply that?

My bad. What you said was, "If Jane is fatalistic and just lets 'nature take its course', she'll be right, and it will indeed be harder still. But maybe it doesn't have to be that way." I read it wrong. Sorry.

 

[TromboneAl]

If we knew exactly what kind and how much exercise to do, what kind of food to eat, and what kind of supplements or drugs to take, I'm sure we could have fantastic results.

But it's so hard to know. Which reports to trust, which web sites have good info, etc.

And trial and error does not work. It's too easy to be convinced that, for example, some supplement works wonders, when it's simply that you felt extra good that month.

 

[Nords]

But it's so hard to know.

As if knowledge implies that we're gonna actually hoist our assets out of our double-wide recliners and go do any of it...

For example, I'm pretty sure that a few hundred situps a day will create six-pack abs, and I lose nothing by experimenting with the quantities & varieties. Yet somehow it just doesn't happen.

 

[devans0]

I can only speak for myself but I have aged many years in the last two. I was very fit but personal circumstances forced me to quit my fitness workouts two years ago. I am amazed at how quickly I slipped to "old" I have started the climb back, but it will take a while.
I splurged on an xbox360 with kinnect and an EA fitness program. So far, it has surpassed my expectations.

 

[Alan]

I can only speak for myself but I have aged many years in the last two. I was very fit but personal circumstances forced me to quit my fitness workouts two years ago. I am amazed at how quickly I slipped to "old" I have started the climb back, but it will take a while.

At work, when I got to age 40 the Doc sent me for a treadmill stress test and the results were excellent. I think I lasted 13 minutes and the cardio Doc said I had the results of a 30 yr old. Later that year I had a knee injury and stopped my "part-time" job as a soccer ref. At 45 I went for another routine stress test and managed a paltry 8 minutes and was [-]absolutely knackered[/-] exhausted, but the Doc said that everthing was just fine for my age. In my eyes however I had "aged" 15 years in the last 5.

A couple of years later I started exercising again, changed my diet and lost 40lbs. I was working at a different location when I was 50 but was back again at 53 and did another treadmill test. I managed 15 minutes and felt pretty good at the end. The Doc said the results were "truly spectacular". Assuming I can avoid serious injury or illness I fully intend to keep up the wide range of exercises I do every day - most of it very low impact.

 

[Ted_Shepherd]

My Rant on What Works

If we knew exactly what kind and how much exercise to do, what kind of food to eat, and what kind of supplements or drugs to take, I'm sure we could have fantastic results.

But it's so hard to know. Which reports to trust, which web sites have good info, etc.

And trial and error does not work. It's too easy to be convinced that, for example, some supplement works wonders, when it's simply that you felt extra good that month.

I have had pleasing results from the combination of various elements of my physical training: the exercise routines, diet, supplements, and prescribed medications I take or use. I have formal education and years of experience applying the scientific method, and the personal discipline not to give way to wishful thinking. (I'm a Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, fwiw.) I have not fallen into the trap of thinking I know which of these training elements were crucial to my progress. TromboneAl is right, of course, that it is all too easy to think we know what is working when our evidence is in fact inconclusive. Something is working for me. I know that will power and perseverance are essential. The men in my gym, including trainers I have hired, have told me about their experiences in all these matters. That includes pointers on exercise form, diet, supplements, and hormones. Of course, they aren't sure which elements are critical to their progress either. From the look of them, I conclude that they are doing something right. For example, their recommendations got me to start using a vasodilator before each training session. That certainly seems to benefit my endurance. I had a training session this week without the vasodilator. It was noticeably tougher to get through the session. (I won't mention the particular vasolator brand I use lest I be accused of spamming, a false accusation that annoys me.) -- Ted

 

[zinger1457]

For example, their recommendations got me to start using a vasodilator before each training session. That certainly seems to benefit my endurance. I had a training session this week without the vasodilator. It was noticeably tougher to get through the session. (I won't mention the particular vasolator brand I use lest I be accused of spamming, a false accusation that annoys me.) -- Ted

I have to admit I've never heard of a vasolator and what it does so looked it up on Wikipedia. Their definition below appears to be in Russian. Can someone translate it to simple English?

"Vasodilation is the result of relaxation in smooth muscle surrounding the blood vessels. This relaxation, in turn, relies on removing the stimulus for contraction, which depends on intracellular calcium ion concentrations and, consequently, phosphorylation of the light chain of the contractile protein myosin. Thus, vasodilation mainly works either by lowering intracellular calcium concentration or the dephosphorylation of myosin. This includes stimulation of myosin light chain phosphatase and induction of calcium symporters and antiporters that pump calcium ions out of the intracellular compartment. This is accomplished through reuptake of ions into the sarcoplasmic reticulum via exchangers and expulsion across the plasma membrane.[3] There are three main intracellular stimuli that can result in the vasodilation of blood vessels. The specific mechanism to accomplish these effects vary from vasodilator to vasodilator."

 

[Alan]

I have to admit I've never heard of a vasolator and what it does so looked it up on Wikipedia. Their definition below appears to be in Russian. Can someone translate it to simple English?

I had to do some looking up as well. My interpretation is that it is dilation (opening up) of the blood vessels and there are drugs you take to make this happen. Certainly not something I am going to do just to improve my exercise work outs.

Vasodilators are used to treat conditions such as hypertension, where the patient has an abnormally high blood pressure, as well as angina and congestive heart failure, where maintaining a lower blood pressure reduces the patient's risk of developing other cardiac problems.[2] Flushing may be a physiological response to vasodilators. Viagra, a phosphodiesterase inhibitor, works to increase blood flow in the penis through vasodilation. It may also be used to treat pulmonary arterial hypertension (PAH).

 

[TromboneAl]

Vasolator was designed to assist both men and women with having better sex lives. This developer suggests that it can increase erections in men and clitoral stimulation in women. Due to this product’s duel focus, it has been featured on a variety of discussion boards and rating sites, on which consumers who have used this product let their peers know if it works or not.

You'll get extra attention on the elliptical trainer at the gym.

 

[Alan]

Vasolator was designed to assist both men and women with having better sex lives. This developer suggests that it can increase erections in men and clitoral stimulation in women. Due to this product’s duel focus, it has been featured on a variety of discussion boards and rating sites, on which consumers who have used this product let their peers know if it works or not.

You'll get extra attention on the elliptical trainer at the gym.

I've told the story before of how I fell off the treadmill a couple of years ago. I was looking out the window over the pool at the gym when a very pretty lady in a bikini climbed out and walked to the lounger under the window in front of me. Anything that causes an imbalance at a critical moment can be disastarous

 

[Ted_Shepherd]

As you have said, people use sports supplements to improve the results we get from our exercise programs. It's misleading, I think, to refer to vasodilators as drugs. Some vasodilalors are drugs, to be sure, and require prescriptions. Other vasodilators are over-the-counter sports supplements that do not require any prescription. These are what I use. Improving my training results is important to me. My primary care physician is cautious. He has raised no objection to the various sports supplements I use. You can tell looking at him that he knows something from personal experience about athletic training -- not only what medical school teaches.

 

[omni550]

91-years old and still competing

Here's an interesting article about a 91-year-old Canadian athlete:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/magazine/28athletes-t.html?ref=general&src=me&pagewanted=all

omni

 

[GregLee]

Here's an interesting article about a 91-year-old Canadian athlete:

Interesting indeed; thanks for the reference. Nice new jargon: "compression of morbidity". I wish I enjoyed exercise. I do some, but it's no fun at all.

 

[Alan]

Here's an interesting article about a 91-year-old Canadian athlete:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/magazine/28athletes-t.html?ref=general&src=me&pagewanted=all

omni

Very interesting.

While most younger masters athletes were jocks in college if not before, many competitors in the higher brackets — say, older than age 70 — have come to the game late. They weren’t athletes earlier in life because of the demands of career and their own growing families. Only after their duties cleared could they tend that other fire.

There's hope for me yet

I got talking to an old guy I met at the Starbucks in our local store this week. He was obviously old but had great poise and posture, not a sign of old age stooping ar hunched shoulders etc.

When I asked, he told me that he was 91, and did no more than walking and flexibility exercises, that he did every single day. Nice to know that you don't have to be a super athlete to maintain your physique as you get older. (unless he was fibbing, and actually worked out for hours in the gymn every day).