budgeting for dental costs

[happy2bretired]

Yikes, $10K and that was WITH insurance. Holy crap! I suspect my teeth are like yours, and I have this in my future at some point. And yes, I take good care of my teeth, too. But I suspect because grew up on well water (no fluoride) I developed many cavities in my youth. No new cavities as an adult, but the old fillings are big and there isn't much tooth left, so the tooth tends to crack easily especially now as I am getting older.



One thing I haven't done is get a bite guard for sleep. I really don't want one. But I keep cracking teeth (hence the crowns), so they suspect I grind my teeth. So maybe I need to "bite the bullet" lol and get one. I just really don't want to do anything else to interrupt my sleep...not a great sleeper to begin with!

Get a good mouth guard. My teeth are cracking too. I'm waiting for the completion of my first implant next week. I couldn't wear my mouth guard for the last several months due to my teeth shifting and my missing tooth. I can see that my lower front teeth are getting ground down during that time without my mouth guard. Even broke off a very small chip on one of my lower teeth.


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[W2R]

Yikes, $10K and that was WITH insurance. Holy crap! I suspect my teeth are like yours, and I have this in my future at some point. And yes, I take good care of my teeth, too. But I suspect because grew up on well water (no fluoride) I developed many cavities in my youth. No new cavities as an adult, but the old fillings are big and there isn't much tooth left, so the tooth tends to crack easily especially now as I am getting older.

My teeth are awful and almost all have root canals or crowns and so on. My relatives' teeth are the same, so I blame our Scottish/English ancestry.

Cost of dental work and oral surgery varies a lot from place to place. My dental implant totalled less than $3450 including the crown, prescriptions, bone graft prior to implant surgery, and everything. He told me that a bridge would be about half that much if I went that route instead.

I am faced with the same issue. For those of you self insure, do you find that your dentists are willing to charge you similar prices as "negotiated prices" set by dental insurance?

No, I pay 15% lower than those negotiated prices if I pay on the spot in cash. This is because of the savings on paperwork and billing. I used to "poor mouth" my dentist before I retired, at least a little bit anyway ("gosh, do you believe the inflation lately? It's hard for an older woman who is alone in the world to make ends meet these days" and that kind of thing). I no longer do and he still charges me the lower price.

 

[explanade]

Just enrolled at dentalinsurance.com for the Nationwide PPO plan, 19.48 a month.

I asked my dentist and another one offering $1400 implants what they charged for exams, cleanings and X-rays.

Both of them had higher prices if you paid out of pocket vs. if you had insurance.

It appears two cleanings and exams per year work out to be about the annual cost of insurance, or maybe even more.

 

[Live And Learn]

My goal was / is to ER when my WR got to 3%. The 3% needed to cover full non-subsidized costs plus the OOP maximum for an ACA plan as well as "accruals" for major appliance / roof / car replacements. The investable assets excluded high cost bucket list travel (70k), the hurricane deductable on my home owners insurance (6k), unforeseen dog medical expenses (5k), major home repairs for things not yet known (30k), 18 months of nursing home care (115k), and (after reading too many threads about expensive dental work) 30k for potential dental work.

 

[M Paquette]

I initially made the mistake of getting the 'add-on' dental coverage on our individual medical insurance. It turned out to have a few problems.

1) Apparently, having teeth was considered to be a 'pre-existing condition'
2) The great numbers quoted in the brochure was for 'in-plan' dentists only. We couldn't find any in-plan dentists within 75 miles of our location, and we aren't exactly rural here.
3) They would happily accept our premium payments, but when a dentist's office called to ask, they mysteriously had no record of our being covered. Multiple calls and certified mail pieces didn't resolve this.

We dropped that coverage, when we realized it would be cheaper to just pay and dicker a bit over costs.

We track the expenses, and now pay for everything using our HSA, getting a virtual tax break on the cost. So far it has not been horrible. We know there could be a higher expense some years, particularly if major dental work surfaces, but that's why we max out the HSA.

 

[pb4uski]

A few questions:

1) Did you self-insure for dental issues after retirement? If so, how did you decide on a number to set? Our costs really have been minimal but the past few years I've needed more crowns. Do dental costs go up as you age?.....

We decided to self-insure. Prior to retiring our typical costs were checkups and two cleanings a year each. Insurance was going to be ~$900/year and our typical cost of cleanings and checkups is ~$500/year so it was an easy decision.

Shortly after we retired DW needed a crown and that cost us ~$1,000. I cracked a tooth after retiring but the dentist just smoothed the rough edge and it has been holding up fine. So after 3 years, I think we are a little ahead and would be way ahead had it not been for DW's crown.

 

[wmc1000]

I have a careington dental discount plan - it runs about $150 per yr for the 2 of us. Had a crown done today and the charges were as follows: pre discount rack rate 1339.50 and I pd $952

 

[explanade]

My goal was / is to ER when my WR got to 3%. The 3% needed to cover full non-subsidized costs plus the OOP maximum for an ACA plan as well as "accruals" for major appliance / roof / car replacements. The investable assets excluded high cost bucket list travel (70k), the hurricane deductable on my home owners insurance (6k), unforeseen dog medical expenses (5k), major home repairs for things not yet known (30k), 18 months of nursing home care (115k), and (after reading too many threads about expensive dental work) 30k for potential dental work.

Your travel budget is 70k?

Per year?

 

[Live And Learn]

Your travel budget is 70k?

Per year?

Oh my - no ! That is the amount that I have excluded from my investable assets in calculating my 3% WR. The 70k will cover 4 "bucket list" vacations. My 3% WR includes 5k in annual travel expense.

 

[explanade]

That's still 4 pretty nice vacations.

I was looking at the National Geographic expeditions. They seem to run a lot of them, all over the world.

And they often charge $10k or more per person, double occupancy, for land costs only, for 8-12 day trips.

 

[outabout]

I had teeth abfraction, apparently due to bruxism. I was told about this years ago and had a custom night guard costing $400. After years it is worn out and my current dentist would charge $600. I just ordered one on Amazon, made by the same dental lab that dentists use, for around 150. They send you a tray and impression material, you make your own impression and send it back, exactly the same way that a dentist would do it. I just got mine and wore it last night for the 1st time, it is VERY GOOD.

Has anyone gone across the border to get dental work done in Mexico? Some of our friends go to Yuma AZ for winter regularly and we are thinking visiting there someday. If one day my hubby and I end up needing thousands and thousands of dental work, this maybe a viable option.

 

[MichaelB]

Has anyone gone across the border to get dental work done in Mexico? Some of our friends go to Yuma AZ for winter regularly and we are thinking visiting there someday. If one day my hubby and I end up needing thousands and thousands of dental work, this maybe a viable option.

Here are a couple of discussions on that topic
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/dental-work-in-mexico-55789.html
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/costa-rica-for-dental-tourism-68385.html

 

[Ozstache]

I self insure. I used to visit the dentist yearly for the past 30 years while working. Only once did I require a filling and the rest of the time it was a thumbs up and carry on. As such, I will visit the dentist every 3-5 years in retirement for a checkup and clean or on condition if a notable dental issue arises. In the interim I will continue brushing twice daily and flossing weekly. I don't each much sugary food and rarely drink soda, which I believe benefits both dental and general health.

 

[audreyh1]

Has anyone gone across the border to get dental work done in Mexico? Some of our friends go to Yuma AZ for winter regularly and we are thinking visiting there someday. If one day my hubby and I end up needing thousands and thousands of dental work, this maybe a viable option.

Around here a lot of seniors cross to Progresso, Mexico, for dental work. It's the only Mexican city considered safe for tourists to visit in our area.

 

[MRG]

I had teeth abfraction, apparently due to bruxism. I was told about this years ago and had a custom night guard costing $400. After years it is worn out and my current dentist would charge $600. I just ordered one on Amazon, made by the same dental lab that dentists use, for around 150. They send you a tray and impression material, you make your own impression and send it back, exactly the same way that a dentist would do it. I just got mine and wore it last night for the 1st time, it is VERY GOOD.

Thanks for sharing this information. I pay $600 every two years to replace mine, I chew through them. They had me try an industructible one (according to the manufacturer) once. Little uncomfortable as it was harder, I couldn't chew through it, I split it down the middle in exacty two years.

For 1/4 the price I'll give them a try. According to the lab they gaurentee your satisfaction. What's to lose? It's not the type I've been wearing, but I've worn horseshoe ones in the past.

 

[simple girl]

So many helpful responses - I love this forum. Thank you all so much!

What do you all think of budgeting for health care and dental expenses together - perhaps using a built-up HSA for the healthcare max out of pocket and large unpredictable dental expenses part?

Here's what I am thinking.

Budget yearly for:
- dental cleanings and at least one crown
- healthcare premiums
- fully funding HSA every year to keep a "bucket" of money for large dental expenses and deductible/max OOP on healthcare plan

We currently have $16,500 in our HSA. Still need to put in 2014 and 2015 contributions, so that will add $13,300 for a total of $29,800 in our HSA by Jan 2016 - our date for when we hope hubby will semi-retire.

If I budget for funding the HSA every year (~$6650 as of now) that will keep our yearly budget at a very manageable number for our portfolio to have 100% success according to FIREcalc.

If I budget for funding max OOP for healthcare (at worst $12K if hubby makes too much money in semi-retirement and we can't get a subsidy) plus worst-case scenario for large dental expenses every year (? $10K), this makes our overall yearly budget very high - and would fail according to FIREcalc.

It doesn't seem realistic to expect we will have worst case scenarios for both medical and dental for every single year of our retirement for ~ 40 years. Does it make sense to keep a "bucket" of $ in your HSA to handle the worst case scenarios, assuming you are going to continually fund it every year?

Having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I want to plan for worst case scenario given my health history (breast cancer). At the same time, it seems like if I do that, we will have to wait many more years to have that much in our portfolio. And what if one of us croaks by the time we build up that much money? My sense of urgency to retire and enjoy life more before something happens to one of us is heightened since my diagnosis (BTW, clear bill of health for now - 3 years out). But that fear of recurrence and early death is always lingering there, and makes me want to make our retirement happen soon rather than later...

Should I start a new thread since I'm moving into health care questions? Or does a moderator want to retitle this thread as budgeting for dental and healthcare costs?

 

[MichaelB]

Should I start a new thread since I'm moving into health care questions? Or does a moderator want to retitle this thread as budgeting for dental and healthcare costs?

This is a very interesting and helpful thread just on dental. Budgeting health care costs can be just as useful, so why not start a new one just for that?

 

[athena53]

As such, I will visit the dentist every 3-5 years in retirement for a checkup and clean or on condition if a notable dental issue arises. In the interim I will continue brushing twice daily and flossing weekly.

You are SO lucky. I've just had bad luck with my teeth since I was a kid. My siblings must have inherited a different body chemistry; my sister had her first filling in her 30s and my brother's teeth were perfect till he started driving and would pick up a big bag of candy (and eat it all) after his sports practices. Prevention has helped me a lot but I still entered adulthood with a mouthful of fillings, which in general weaken the structure of the tooth and leave you open to problems down the road.

Now, with the dental implants, they tell me I need cleanings 4X/year and I'm afraid NOT to follow that advice. Too much can go wrong with 4 prosthetic molars screwed into little titanium plates embedded in your jawbone.

OTOH, the rest of my body is supremely healthy so I'll stop complaining now.

 

[simple girl]

This is a very interesting and helpful thread just on dental. Budgeting health care costs can be just as useful, so why not start a new one just for that?

Will do! I will just cut and paste most of what I wrote - thanks!!!

 

[outabout]

Another tip I like to pass on is that at "our age" it maybe beneficial to use prescription strength toothpaste to prevent/help with decay, which has 10 times more fluoride than retail toothpaste. You can only purchase them from a dentist office and you know it would be expensive (mine charges $36 per tube). But there are a few dentists that sell them on the internet for about 1/3 price, I bought Prevident 5000 Sensitive toothpast this way. I would be happy to share the info if I can in this post, but I am not sure if I can or should, but I will provide the link if you send me a message for now.

I like my dentist and use his service regularly, it's just I don't want to pay unnecessary high prices. I have no relationship with this dentist office on the internet

 

[Walt34]

But there are a few dentists that sell them on the internet for about 1/3 price, I bought Prevident 5000 Sensitive toothpast this way. I would be happy to share the info if I can in this post, but I am not sure if I can or should, but I will provide the link if you send me a message for now.

[mod hat on] The main issue the forum administrators have with posting links is that they're relevant to the thread and the poster isn't spamming the board for profit. The last is highly frowned upon to put it mildly. So go ahead and post the link.[mod hat off]

I too just started a prescription for Prevident 5000 myself a couple of weeks ago. The dentist doesn't sell it, I went to a pharmacy and they had it.

 

[outabout]

[mod hat on] The main issue the forum administrators have with posting links is that they're relevant to the thread and the poster isn't spamming the board for profit. The last is highly frowned upon to put it mildly. So go ahead and post the link.[mod hat off]

Thank you, understood.

Kamy Dental dentist in Bayville NJ 08721 and Manahawkin NJ 08050 24 hour emergency care cosmetic Veneers Inlay Bonding Dental Implants Bridges Crowns Teeth Whitening, The Art of E-commerce

No prescription needed.

 

[Vagabond2020]

This thread is very eye opening as I had some emergency dental work done last year after cracking my bicuspid tooth down the middle in October. I pay $14 a month for a plan that covers 100% preventative and 80% restorative up to $2500/yr.

 

[easysurfer]

One other possible option not discussed yet, which may make a dental plan reasonable if is your teeth are in bad shape and you don't mind joining a DHMO.

My sister is one who hasn't been to a dentist in a very long time. I got her signed up with a Human DHMO plan and brought her in today. She needs a lot of dental work and got a estimate of worked required, about $1700, but without the insurance, cost is about $5000. Her monthly premium is about $15. As long as she gets the work done by her PCD (primary care dentist) at the DHMO, there are no waiting periords, no claims to file, no annual maximums.

For her visit today (comprehensive exam, full set of x-rays), without the DHMO insurance, about $250. With, $10 for the office visit.

 

[Sunset]

This thread made me think of dental costs as its the first year without insurance.
So I emailed my dentist and asked how much he would charge for exam, cleaning, bitewing xrays.
I stated how we had no insurance and would pay cash.
It was $260

Then I phoned a dental office nearby that I had seen for the past few years.
They said they would charge $150 ea for new patients, and next time its $125

So we went local for a total of $300 on the credit card