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Old 09-21-2007, 05:30 PM   #61
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So how come I still see so many fat people?
That's one of the arguments against 20+ years of low-fat diets, too. Bottom-line is that obesity and diabetes are increasing in this country and have been for a while.

In terms of weight loss, I think the evidence is strong that low-carb diets work. Even if two groups have the same caloric intake, those on a low-carb high-protein/fat diet report being more satiated. Studies have also shown that the peptides responsible for the satiation response are present in higher quantities in response to fat and protein compared to carbs.

From a long-term health perspective, I think a lot of questions are still unanswered. Maybe there's more than one answer due to genetic variation.

I wouldn't try to sell anybody on the idea of a low-carb (or low-GI/GL) diet, but if they have high triglycerides, a low-carb diet is a fairly non-controversial approach to lowering TG.

My biggest gripe is that there's no great way to get a handle on your cardiovascular health. Cholesterol levels really aren't that great of a predictor. CRP isn't that great, either. A fairly new one -- a peptide called BNP -- may be a better biomarker.

It'd be nice to know how healthy I am before I start experimenting on myself to improve my health.
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Old 09-21-2007, 06:00 PM   #62
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That's one of the arguments against 20+ years of low-fat diets, too.
Understood, but not too many people ever looked at a low fat diet as 'easy'. That always seemed to be the sales pitch with the low carb. I know I had friends tell me ' I eat steak and butter, I eat a nuts, I eat all this stuff, it's great - why wouldn't you want to do this?'.

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Bottom-line is that obesity and diabetes are increasing in this country and have been for a while.
I think that is simply because we have relatively inexpensive, high calorie food in front of us at all times. And we are programmed to eat, our bodies still think we may face a 'lean winter' soon, but it does not come for most of us. It's an unintended consequence of our success.


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I wouldn't try to sell anybody on the idea of a low-carb (or low-GI/GL) diet, but if they have high triglycerides, a low-carb diet is a fairly non-controversial approach to lowering TG.
Could be, but mine also came down with a diet pretty high in unrefined carbs, and watching the fat (but not low fat - I shoot for 25% of calories from fat). The 'bulk' from a lot of unrefined carbs, coupled with eating bulky snacks between meals and drinking a lot of water kept me from feeling hungry.

But it was work. The biggest thing I did was pay attention to EVERY bite of food I ate. I figured, if I'm going to take in 1800 calories, I want to enjoy every single one of them. So I did the thing where you put the fork down between each bite, and stop and appreciate the flavor of the food. Never eat 'junky' food - I would say 'that is not worth the calories', I want really good food for every bite. Some of those habits stuck a bit, but it is hard to keep it up completely. I was surprised just how many times in the past that I would gulp down 200 calories, and I never even really tasted the food. So I try to change that.

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My biggest gripe is that there's no great way to get a handle on your cardiovascular health. Cholesterol levels really aren't that great of a predictor.
Agreed. It's frustrating, a lot of shooting in the dark.

-ERD50
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Old 09-21-2007, 06:38 PM   #63
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I was surprised just how many times in the past that I would gulp down 200 calories, and I never even really tasted the food.
I think this is key. In my mind, there are at least four factors at work:

1) how easy is it to consume

2) how full does it make you feel

3) how many calories

4) what's the metabolic pathway

If I eat two small chocolate-chip cookies, that's about 400 calories, and I'm still hungry. Plus, they come packaged a bunch to a box, so access to more is easy. And they are digested immediately, so my blood sugar spikes, and an insulin reaction signals my body to store the excess energy.

Cookies lose on every metric.

If I eat a double cheeseburger without the bun, that's about 300 calories, and I'm full. Digestion probably takes days.

Either way, to burn that many calories, I'd need to jog for 1-2 hours!

Calories are too hard to burn via exercise. Calories are too easy to consume from carbs. But protein seems just right.
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Old 09-22-2007, 11:26 AM   #64
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I think this is key. In my mind, there are at least four factors at work:

1) how easy is it to consume

2) how full does it make you feel

3) how many calories

4) what's the metabolic pathway

If I eat two small chocolate-chip cookies, that's about 400 calories, and I'm still hungry. Plus, they come packaged a bunch to a box, so access to more is easy. And they are digested immediately, so my blood sugar spikes, and an insulin reaction signals my body to store the excess energy.

Cookies lose on every metric.

If I eat a double cheeseburger without the bun, that's about 300 calories, and I'm full. Digestion probably takes days.

Either way, to burn that many calories, I'd need to jog for 1-2 hours!

Calories are too hard to burn via exercise. Calories are too easy to consume from carbs. But protein seems just right.
So true, I have seen distance runners actually GAIN WEIGHT while running 40 miles a week. Now I just got back from a 2 hour run this morning, probably burned 2200 calories during the 14 mile run. Now I may drink 3 beers today boom got 500 calories back in the body like that!

The older you are the less we must eat. The older we are the more exercise you must do. At 51 I am now running more per week than I was at 41 yes the miles are slower but I know what I must do to keep the doctor away.
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:50 PM   #65
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The older we are the more exercise you must do. At 51 I am now running more per week than I was at 41 yes the miles are slower but I know what I must do to keep the doctor away.
NewGuy, your exercising is really impressive. I don't know how your body can get up and do it day after day.

Now how about some political postings? I get some vicarious enjoyment out of the way you flout the PC canon and tell us how it is out there.

Ha
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Old 09-22-2007, 10:11 PM   #66
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NewGuy, your exercising is really impressive. I don't know how your body can get up and do it day after day.

Now how about some political postings? I get some vicarious enjoyment out of the way you flout the PC canon and tell us how it is out there.

Ha
I ask that question about my running a few times a week at 4:30am when I am out on a morning run before a day of work, Yes I have those two part time teaching days now. I teach Kindergarden and 2nd and 3rd grade physical education classes down here in North Carolina. A great gig! But I wonder if all this running is doing
me any good, and then I remember that cardiac cath 6 years ago when I had viral pericarditis and the doc said wow your arteries are clear as a bell, no heart disease for you and my family history is awful! Got to keep moving or we get rusty and break..

Political postings? Hummmm, Nope this is the health forum section....

I will not go political nope not gonna do it, nope not gonna ........ Bush that %8&(_&566........
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Old 10-09-2007, 05:16 PM   #67
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Mini review of Taubes new book in the NY Times:

Diet and Fat: A Severe Case of Mistaken Consensus - New York Times
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:32 PM   #68
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Twaddle - I bought Taubes book but it's going to take awhile to get through since it's over 500 pages! I think it will be worth it.
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