The quote, variously attributed to figures from Ben Franklin to Einstein, goes something like:
It took centuries for the germ theory of disease to become established as conventional wisdom.
Diabetes
- Thread starter Texas Proud
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The quote, variously attributed to figures from Ben Franklin to Einstein, goes something like:
It took centuries for the germ theory of disease to become established as conventional wisdom.
TA. I always look forward to your questions and comments on this forum. You could have had a career as a research scientist...
If you have seen the movie "Fat Head" you get the idea how this can situation can come about. Unfortunately, when you get the complete explanation in one sitting, it sounds like a complex conspiracy theory, and people write you off as a nutcase. So, in a 'nutshell', here it is (but do some 'fact checking'):
In the 60's a government committee was established to recommend dietary guidelines (chaired by Sen McGovern). They interviewed scientists and nutritionists and in the end decided to recommend a low fat diet. There was strenuous objection; however, McGovern stated politicians didn't have the luxury of time to fully research their recommendations. Once the guideline was in place, low fat diets became, in essence, government policy. The food industry sprang into action providing products, research $ was expended to show the benefits of this new recommendation, scientists put research proposals into the pipeline for funding, results flowed out showing the benefits, journalists reported these 'findings' to the public, yada yada yada. Today everyone believes fat is bad and must be avoided. Awkwardly, physicians treating diabetics literally are telling them to eat carbohydrates on a careful schedule, check their blood sugar and take additional insulin as needed! Whereas, avoiding carbohydrates would potentially 'cure' them.
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
It is easy to see why a doctor would go along with this. After all, she is not the one with diabetes, and there is safety for her in numbers, but no safety in recommending something widely condemned by official groups. If she recommends the "Diabetic Diet" and the patient has a heart attack, big deal, diabetics have heart attacks. If she recommends a high fat Atkins type diet and patient has a heart attack, shame on bad Doc-she recommended this deadly diet.
What I cannot understand is why patients eat this way, unless they try it and find that it works. IMO, unlikely at best.
Ha
What I cannot understand is why patients eat this way, unless they try it and find that it works. IMO, unlikely at best.
Ha
The same question crossed the minds of the Nutrition and Metabolism Society. See the attached poster which quotes directly from the American Diabetes Association website!.
Attachments
eytonxav
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
OK, I thought based on your above post that you were maybe not getting fasting blood tests.
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but the A1C test is not a fasting-required test, because it measures how much sugar has attached to red blood cells over the past 3 months, or so.
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I looked up this interesting group, and found a reference to a new low carb book which is supposedly heavy on science, by a couple of authors, both scientists and one a scientist/physician.
Amazon.com: The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living: An Expert Guide to Making the Life-Saving Benefits of Carbohydrate Restriction Sustainable and Enjoyable (9780983490708): Stephen D. Phinney, Jeff S. Volek: Books
GregLee
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
rescueme
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
True, but a doctor will (as mine does) require that a fasting glucose test be done along with an A1C. The glucose requires overnight fasting.
That gives you/doctor a "view" of the current short/long term reading of your situation.
I'll just add one point. T2 is a chronic condition that requires that the patient be the "primary caretaker". Sure, you can have a doctor that is "tuned in" (as my PCP is, since her mother had T2 for many years before her passing), but you have to take responsibility for your overall well being.
That means (just like investing), get educated. That also includes taking classes (offered by a lot of hospitals, and a lot of times, covered by your health plan) about the disease, care, and what you need to be aware of. This is very important - especially for those that either don't like to read, or are confused about the many ways and subjects written about T2.
You also need to know (and be aware) of the relationship between T2 and your heart, along with how it can affect the possibilities of strokes. I also go to a heart care group, even though I don't have a specific problem. If you are diagnosed as a T2, it is considered in the same manner as if you already suffered a heart attack.
Knowledge is power in your ongoing care and long-term management of the disease. Not to scare you at all. You can have a long life without the impacts of T2 upon your body, but you have to take responsibility for monitoring your specific situation.
Just some words from one who knows - over ten years as a T2, managing only with diet & exercise (no meds, including insulin) and aggressive monitoring of my "D health".
The approved guidelines are 60% carbohydrate, 10% protein and 30% fat. That is 1200 calories of carbohydrates in a 2000 calorie diet, which is not a moderate amount. (80 teaspoons of sugar per day!)
I don't know of Volek, but Phinney is quite an interesting guy.
Exercise & Low Carb Diets – Steve Phinney MD | Me and My Diabetes
Exercise & Low Carb Diets – Steve Phinney MD | Me and My Diabetes
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Your logic as usual is unassailable, Jeff. If you should become diabetic, please follow your logic and report back to us.
Ha
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Thanks for the link. Very interesting.
Volek researches diet and exercise at UConn.
Ha
eytonxav
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I realize the AIC is a time based average, but normally my Dr does both the fasting glucose test and AIC from the same blood draw (quarterly). May be other Drs do it differently.
Been reading this thread now and then and I am concerned about DW. She has type 2 diabetes and takes metformin medication. However, I think she is getting worse instead of staying at a normal level, whatever normal should be. In the last year she is getting worse. Tired all the time, drinks six to seven bottles of water daily plus three or four Diet Cokes. Got her up this morning at 7:45 to watch her sewing shows and she fell asleep watching them. Not the first time that happened. I have never been around a diabetic before and don't know what to look for. I wouldn't know if she is having some kind of attack or if her actions are normal for a Type 2. Oh yeah, always hot. Turn on the fans! What's the A/A set at? Need some feedback. Thanks in advance.
Rambler
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Johnnie, is she checking her blood sugar? If not, she needs to. Get her a kit at CVS or Rite Aid or Walgreens for 10-15 bucks. If her blood sugar is much over 100 first thing in the morning before eating or drinking, she'll need to check with her doc about upping the metformin or adding another drug. If it is beyond 120, I'd get her to the doc within a few days. If it is a lot higher than 120, get her in to the doc urgently.
Not a doc, but have a couple diabetic friends. Maybe Rich or Meadbh will chime in on this one.
R
Not a doc, but have a couple diabetic friends. Maybe Rich or Meadbh will chime in on this one.
R
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
It's not that A1c must be non-fasting, it's that it need not be done on fasting blood.
Ha
eytonxav
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
haha
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Sorry; I thought I was responding to a misunderstanding. This is all quite complicated, and doctors often seem to not particularly want us to understand what is going on.
I really do not see the point of the fasting blood sugar test anyway, unless the person's home meter readings show morning highs. If FBS is high, the patient probably has already damaged his pancreas. Best quick and dirty test would be to drink a Coke and an hour later have blood drawn. When glucose is coating the cells, the cells don't ask are you fasting or not.
Years ago my Dad's doc put him through glucose tolerance tests every so often. Why? Did he think that Dad was going to suddenly stop being diabetic? Fat chance.
Ha
I really do not see the point of the fasting blood sugar test anyway, unless the person's home meter readings show morning highs. If FBS is high, the patient probably has already damaged his pancreas. Best quick and dirty test would be to drink a Coke and an hour later have blood drawn. When glucose is coating the cells, the cells don't ask are you fasting or not.
Years ago my Dad's doc put him through glucose tolerance tests every so often. Why? Did he think that Dad was going to suddenly stop being diabetic? Fat chance.
Ha
eytonxav
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I don't think that high FBS necessarily means you've damaged your pancreas. I am one of those that gets a glucose dump from the liver early in the morning due to Dawn Phenomenon which I believe can even affect non-diabetics. The good news is my quarterly A1Cs have been rock steady at 5.5 since first being diagnosed with T2 in August 2008. Unfortunately, I have been a carb lover most of my life, and should probably be reducing my carbs even more which is something I believe you have astutely pointed out in various posts. Ideally, I'd like to see my A1Cs closer to 5.0. Its a tough disease, but with proper care/monitoring, good nutrition and exercise to maintain a healthy weight and LBM, one can live a long and active life.
rescueme
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
As I mentioned previously, the condition requires the patient to be either act as their own "doctor", or learn to "push" to get the right info.
Most general practice doctors do not know much about long term maintenance of the condition (the exception for me of course is that my PCP's mother had T2, and my PCP cared for her for many years).
Very few PCP's have a good background in endocrinology, and many areas of the country have few endocrinologists available for those that have a "run of the mill" T2 (as I do).
As I said, I was diagnosed slightly over ten years ago. Over that time (just speaking for myself), the success of managing the chronic condition was primarily my responsibility (I will kill for a slice of pizza
), with the "assistance" of my PCP who orders the BT's.It's not a disease that you can just sit back and let others (e.g. doctors) take care of you. You must be an active participant, and sometimes your own research will allow you to become your own "specialist".
- Been there - still there (still kicking)
...eytonxav
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Hi Johnnie,
Your DW should certainly be monitoring herself with a meter and getting periodic blood tests (probably quarterly) from her Dr. If she is seeing a recent change with respect to any of these: energy level, excessive thirst, change in eye sight, weight, numbness in hands/feet, it would be prudent to see the Dr. ASAP. Of course some of these symtoms may not necessarily be caused by diabetes, but I would take action and get her checked out.
eytonxav
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
As I mentioned previously, the condition requires the patient to be either act as their own "doctor", or learn to "push" to get the right info.
Most general practice doctors do not know much about long term maintenance of the condition (the exception for me of course is that my PCP's mother had T2, and my PCP cared for her for many years).
Very few PCP's have a good background in endocrinology, and many areas of the country have few endocrinologists available for those that have a "run of the mill" T2 (as I do).
As I said, I was diagnosed slightly over ten years ago. Over that time (just speaking for myself), the success of managing the chronic condition was primarily my responsibility (I will kill for a slice of pizza
It's not a disease that you can just sit back and let others (e.g. doctors) take care of you. You must be an active participant, and sometimes your own research will allow you to become your own "specialist".
- Been there - still there (still kicking)
^^^ These comments are right on target, good post.
"High FBS" and damage to b cells -- of course this depends on how high your level is in the morning. If you are over 100, you should be concerned. Normal healthy individuals do have an increase in blood sugar in the early morning. e.g. from about 85 to 90.
Take a look at this chart: What is a Normal Blood Sugar?
eytonxav
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
My FBS are ususally below 110, but I also take a BP medicine at bedtime which may affect it some. But, I still need to lower my carbs for better results.
