Elderly MIL scammed

[Montecfo]

My dear MIL, who is 92, recently moved into an independent living facility after living in her own SFH for years. She gave up driving at the same, as we have begun noticing some confusion. This week she received a call from a scammer pretending to be her grandson, crying and saying he was in trouble in Mexico. Please don't tell Mom and Dad just give me credit card number so I can pay the bail and get home, blah blah blah.

Well, she gave out her credit card and by the time one of the kids realized what had happened, her card had been charged for several thousand dollars. She sniffed out a scam like this probably 5 years ago but apparently she is no longer able to. Of course, all her grands are safe and sound. We were able to get the charge cancelled but it was a very unsettling experience for all.

I am curious how folks usually deal with this risk. Mostly, the kids manage her finances, and she has few bills other than rent, and they are paid automatically. We hate to take away her credit cards, but perhaps there is a way to limit charges to a certain amount? I guess there is a similar risk with checks.

Ideas welcome.

 

[Just_Steve]

Give her a low dollar prepaid card as opposed to a credit card.

 

[njhowie]

Have you tried asking the credit card company to block all international charges? I would think that's possible. I know that many charge fees for international charges so they are certainly able to know when a charge is from outside US. Obviously it won't prevent all scams, however, there are a good number of them which do originate overseas.

Additionally, you can easily get her credit limit lowered. Take it down to maybe $500. If she happens to use that up before the end of the billing cycle, you can always pay it down online any day you like. Again, this won't prevent a scam, but should it happen, a lower credit limit will cap what they can get.

 

[Walt34]

We hate to take away her credit cards, but perhaps there is a way to limit charges to a certain amount? I guess there is a similar risk with checks.

With the credit cards it's easy, just contact the bank (with MIL accompanying you) and have the credit limit on the cards reduced to an amount that won't be a financial catastrophe if they're used without her authorization. Normally she'll have 60 days to dispute any such transactions but is anyone but her consistently watching the statements? MIL may also decide to use only one cc and put the rest in a place where she won't have ready access to them such as at your place, a safe deposit box, or to simply cancel all but one anyway. It's not like she needs to establish or keep a high credit score at this stage in life anyway so she doesn't need multiple credit cards.

And that brings up the next tactic. What I did with my mother and DW did with her father was to have the bank authorize online access (with the account holder's authorization) for us respectively to "look over their shoulders" at what was going on with the finances. DW did spot a scam, too late to do anything about it, but it did keep it from getting worse.

 

[bolt]

Scammers abound in the elderly circles!
Many of the scammers make out well.
Many are the pre-paid funeral/death services operations.
.Gov is of little to no assistance.

Vanguard scammer caught today!!

No doubt the .Gov went after the perpetrator unabashedly because the funds were dormant & headed for THEIR coffers.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edpa/pr/former-vanguard-employee-sentenced-four-years-fraud-scheme

You, ....you hire an Atty.

Good Luck!

 

[JoeWras]

The situation with my dad was long and drawn out with many steps. But let me start with the first step that helped us tremendously: sign up to get text notifications for all transactions for credit cards and bank accounts.

This way you can stop the bleeding. For CC, most texts come within seconds of the transaction.

 

[MichaelB]

It’s a shame that is happening, but good that you are on top of it. Not much to add to what has already been suggested. Lower limits on cards and notifications for all transactions. Make sure overdraft protection is not available.

In addition to lower limits on cards, perhaps a new savings account where the bulk of her cash can be transferred, leaving just enough to cove basic transactions in her long open checking (if that’s the case). Just make sure there are no large amounts that can be accessed by unauthorized people.

Constant vigilance and regular inspection of all transactions is key.

Edit to add - for sure this is already done, but for others in similar situations, make sure to do a complete credit freeze.

 

[CardsFan]

DMIL is almost 89, and got a similar call 2-3 years ago. Fortunately, she figured out it was not our son calling, and hung up. Also, she does not have any credit cards (against my recommendation), but in this case the scammer would have to look for other ways to pay. Since she does not drive, a request to go to the store to get prepaid cards would have raised a red flag.

 

[Luvdogs]

"Constant vigilance and regular inspection of all transactions is key."

I agree.

But what if the bank doesn't even let you know? I just had this happen today with my Chase Sapphire Reserve card. They texted me and asked if I bought $500+ at a plumbing store online. They notified me within 10 minutes of when the purchase was attempted.

I immediately called them, said no and they also said that they had denied a charge of $75 on 8/7 to Walmart online because the addresses didn't match.

I check my accounts every few days and there was nothing on it from 8/7. I asked why they didn't notify me then--she didn't know.

So they cancelled the card and I will hopefully have a new one tomorrow. But they need to let us know about every potential fraudulent charge, not just the larger ones.

 

[ERD50]

"Constant vigilance and regular inspection of all transactions is key."

I agree.

But what if the bank doesn't even let you know? I just had this happen today with my Chase Sapphire Reserve card. They texted me and asked if I bought $500+ at a plumbing store online. They notified me within 10 minutes of when the purchase was attempted.

I immediately called them, said no and they also said that they had denied a charge of $75 on 8/7 to Walmart online because the addresses didn't match.

I check my accounts every few days and there was nothing on it from 8/7. I asked why they didn't notify me then--she didn't know.

So they cancelled the card and I will hopefully have a new one tomorrow. But they need to let us know about every potential fraudulent charge, not just the larger ones.

And the answer is:

The situation with my dad was long and drawn out with many steps. But let me start with the first step that helped us tremendously: sign up to get text notifications for all transactions for credit cards and bank accounts.

This way you can stop the bleeding. For CC, most texts come within seconds of the transaction.

I've done this with all our Credit Cards, except I use email, as I am near my computer more than I am my smart-phone, so whatever works for you.

One of my cards (that I use just once a year now to keep it active) did not offer this, so I keep it just as a backup. They had a terrible fraud service, and I told them I'm better at detecting fraud by getting an email with each transaction, they insisted theirs was more sophisticated. But they had to call me, days later, when they suspected fraud and it was a legitimate charge, that went through a 3rd party, so did look suspicious, but I would have recognized it as legit (time/date/amount).

"I check my accounts every few days" versus "texts (or emails) come within seconds of the transaction" is a huge difference.

-ERD50

 

[RobbieB]

I never check my accounts. They catch the fraud before I do.

 

[Nemo2]

And the overall situation will probably get worse:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jordan-peterson-deep-fake

 

[donheff]

Like ERD I get text alerts on all charges. I glance at them to be sure they are valid and delete. At some point in my late 80s or 90s I will turn it all over to the kids. They will have a greater incentive to preserve assets than I will.

 

[Spock]

My dad fell for 2 SS scam calls in 6 weeks.
The last one he had a neighbor drive him to the bank to withdraw all his $. (the next step was to meet "somebody somewhere" to give them the money to open new safe accounts with....)



I talked with a lawyer last week to see about getting him declared incompetent. Turns out that its almost a wasted exercise. If the person still has "testamentary capacity" the ward can still change POAs, wills, trusts and claim any bank accounts that you open to hide their money from them.


Bank and Lawyer recommended I go behind Dads back and surreptitiously setup new secret accounts for him and only give Dad an allowance. That won't fly without WWIII and then he could still revoke my POA, etc. Besides, if he finds the new accounts he can still claim them.

The legal system simply relies on the ward not being aware that they still have these rights.


What I've done with his grudging consent:
1. Froze his credit at 4 bureaus.
2. I have his bank and cc account passwords and have setup Mint to aggregate all transactions to review daily (he asked me for help doing his taxes this year, so I said I needed this access to accumulate deductible expenses throughout the year).

3. I had been relying on the credit freeze and his Discover Card monitoring service to detect new accounts. With the latest event where he gave the scammer his SSN, I enrolled Dad in the top tier LifeLock plan (for now).

A side note: When I got access to Dad's Discover Card account, I saw a monthly recurring charge of $19.95 from MGZ RWD... its a magazine subscription scam. Dad claimed he reviews his statements every month, but I'm finding out he really doesn't. The charges have been hitting monthly since at least Jan 2018.
When we finally disputed the charges with Discover Card, Discover not only refunded the last 60 days that are formally disputable, but Discover refunded all of those charges throughout 2018. Dad is a long time customer, but still a big kudo to Discover Card.

 

[Chuckanut]

I had similar problems with my father. Though he was no longer competent to manage his affairs, he refused to give up control to anybody. Or even let us monitor things for him. The older the got the more suspicious he became of those he should have trusted the most. And the more money he shot to Heck for garbage nonsense.

We finally got him declared incompetent by a judge. After that we got his will done (He never had a legal will, just some ramblings about the bums who would never get his money, stuff like "To Evan, my worthless brother-in-law, I leave 2 cents which is more than he deserves").

Eight days after this all happened, he passed away.

 

[tinlizzy]

The scammers will also take cash. We've had 2 similar "your grandson needs bail money" scams discovered at work (ups).

A driver was sent to get a next day air pkg from a 90yo in a rural location. When he showed up he asked her what she was sending in a rush to NY, small talk, and she whispered that she wasn't supposed to tell him. He persisted and she told him it was a couple empty tin cans, newspaper and $20k in cash.

He's been on that route for 30 yrs and knows her entire family so he called her grandson who is a deputy sheriff!

She kept her money and the box went on it's way and hopefully they made some arrests when it got to its destination.

She withdrew the money from the bank that day. I'm not sure why that didn't throw up red flags there.

 

[Montecfo]

Lots of excellent ideas and cautionary stories here. I am glad we caught this problem at the source.

Good news is she started calling people right after.

We are going to see if we can add text notices. We already review her charges online as I put that in place when I did her taxes. Also need to look at card limits. We also need to freeze her credit as another common sense step to manage the risk.

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[Lawrencewendall]

Doesn't just happen to the elderly. DW (54) has never met a sales pitch she didn't like. She signed us up for financial advice for $2.5k over the phone. Their solution was to open 5 CC in our name. When I called to cancel, they wouldn't let me since she verbally approved it. When she called they wouldn't let her cancel because it was on my CC. We finally both got on the phone, they said we couldn't couldn't cancel because they had a recording of both agreeing to the contract. I requested listening to the recording and after listening to a 45 minute conversation between DW and the sales rep (at least 3 times DW said I was not available) I asked where I had agreed. They offered to refund 50%. NOPE 100% and would be turning them in for phone fraud. I filed a claim with the Consumer Protection Agency the next day. Got it all back but it was a hassle. Lesson: don't answer a number you don't recognize or is not in your contacts!

 

[pb4uski]

The scammers will also take cash. We've had 2 similar "your grandson needs bail money" scams discovered at work (ups).

A driver was sent to get a next day air pkg from a 90yo in a rural location. When he showed up he asked her what she was sending in a rush to NY, small talk, and she whispered that she wasn't supposed to tell him. He persisted and she told him it was a couple empty tin cans, newspaper and $20k in cash.

He's been on that route for 30 yrs and knows her entire family so he called her grandson who is a deputy sheriff!

She kept her money and the box went on it's way and hopefully they made some arrests when it got to its destination.

She withdrew the money from the bank that day. I'm not sure why that didn't throw up red flags there.

Good job by that UPS driver! Give him a gold star.

 

[Chuckanut]

A driver was sent to get a next day air pkg from a 90yo in a rural location. When he showed up he asked her what she was sending in a rush to NY, .

Scammers love the private delivery services since they don't have to deal with breaking USPS laws. Just a lot of other laws, but not the mail fraud laws.

 

[jazz4cash]

This thread counterbalances the ones for using Cashback cards for everything. Some of my regular recurring charges have cryptic designations on the monthly statement. It makes tougher to detect unauthorized charges. I have several that are just a few bucks and I have double check them every time.

 

[samclem]

Scammers love the private delivery services since they don't have to deal with breaking USPS laws. Just a lot of other laws, but not the mail fraud laws.

And I've heard that postal inspectors have a reputation as being both competent and tenacious. They don't get much press, but apparently the bad guys respect their abilities.