A Serious $%#@ Gripe About the IRS and Related Company

[erkevin]

Late last year (Oct), my MIL received a letter from the IRS that one of the quarterly tax payments for her employee (care giver) was missing (quarter #2). We checked the statements and did, indeed, make that payment. The IRS deposited it.
Wrote a letter to the IRS in November, 2022, with copy of the check, front and back, dates of deposit, etc. And waited.
MIL passed away in April of 2023. DW (daughter) is named Executor. In July of this year we receive a collections letter from ConServe, the collection agency for the IRS, stating we did not make a quarterly payment, blah, blah, blah.
Wrote another letter (to ConServe) with all of the original documentation plus MIL death certificate and court papers showing daughter as Executor. Mailed it off in July.
Now September. Nothing. DW calls, explains who she is and why she is calling. Gets, "I can't talk to you". Wife explains that as Executor, it is her responsibility to take care of her mother's debts. "I can't talk to you". "I can't talk to you". Wife tries again...."mom is dead, I am Executor, trying to settle her estate".
"I can't talk to you".
Holy hell, you wonder why people hate dealing with the US Government.

 

[TheWizard]

That seems odd...

 

[harley]

Actually sounds about right to me.

 

[N02L84ER]

My MIL paid her state income taxes in April of 2020. She died in June of 2020. In November of 2020, the state IRS sent a letter claiming she had not paid her taxes that were due in April and they stated she owed the exact dollar amount of her April payment. Luckily for us, her bank still sent photocopied prints of cancelled checks. So, I called them and explained the situation. The nice gal on the phone said she was not allowed to discuss any of this with me, but since it sounded like they must have recorded the payment incorrectly, I should not worry about it and that she would verify that the records got updated. We have not heard anything from them since then. Sorry you are having more difficulty.

 

[Gumby]

As far as I can tell, ConServe is a private company, not the government. It is a debt collector for many companies, not just the IRS. As a third party debt collector, it is subject to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, which makes a debt collector liable for damages if it discusses the debt allegedly owed with anyone but the debtor. I am certain their employees who make these calls are browbeaten mercilessly in training - "You may only talk to the debtor, you may only talk to the debtor ..." That is why you are hearing "I can't talk to you". Your best bet is to respond to ConServe in writing, telling them that the debt is not owed.

Here is some information about what, where, when, how and with whom a debt collector can communicate:

https://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/supmanual/cch/fairdebt.pdf

 

[erkevin]

" Your best bet is to respond to ConServe in writing, telling them that the debt is not owed." That was the letter, mentioned above, mailed in July.

 

[Gumby]

" Your best bet is to respond to ConServe in writing, telling them that the debt is not owed." That was the letter, mentioned above, mailed in July.

Sorry, I misunderstood the chronology. I would just leave it. They may drop the matter. And they're not obligated to tell you if they do.

 

[youbet]

" Your best bet is to respond to ConServe in writing, telling them that the debt is not owed." That was the letter, mentioned above, mailed in July.

Since your MIL is deceased, do you have to do anything? Is it a significant sum? It seems like the executor has fulfilled their duty.

 

[Texas Proud]

It is not just the US gvmt... I knew my mom had a life insurance policy with teachers retirement svcs... called as Executor and they were saying the same thing.. that we cannot talk to you...


Well, just give me the name of the beneficiary and I will get in touch with them... nope.. we cannot talk to you.. I tried over a few calls etc.. nothing..


Then one time I forget to tell them I was executor and surprise, surprise they could talk to me!!! Yep, I was the beneficiary.. not all the kids or her estate which is what I thought...


And you cannot tell me this earlier? Why not?

 

[folivier]

Well your wife could say she is her mother when she calls. How will they know any difference?

 

[USGrant1962]

Well your wife could say she is her mother when she calls. How will they know any difference?

Sister-in-law (SIL could be son or sis!) did that with MIL when MIL had dementia. Then one time they asked security questions - where were you married? She guessed wrong, then guessed wrong again, then the rep let her guess again and she got it right. I'm surprised they let her try three times. I guess that acting like a really old lady helped!

 

[erkevin]

To answer a couple of questions; the amount was about $1300 and had several hundred $ more in interest and penalties. The estate is responsible for the debt (although there isn't one). The IRS could go after the estate for the taxes and penalties. Will they? Who knows.
Regarding my wife calling and pretending to be her mom:
DW: "Hi, this is so-and-so"
CSR: Hello Mrs. so-and-so. We received your death certificate from your daughter many months ago"
DW: "well, i got better"
Monty Python music ensues

 

[Sunset]

OP - can you make an IRS account for the estate online, then you could see if it's actually all settled.

I'm suspicious of ConServe actually being a debt collector for the IRS..

 

[HarveyS]

You paid the debt. You have the proof. You sent it to both parties. No problem here. Ignore the letters.

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

You paid the debt. You have the proof. You sent it to both parties. No problem here. Ignore the letters.

Do not ignore the letters. That could easily compound your problem. Try contacting your congress representative or one of your U.S. senators. They all have constituent services staff that specialize in dealing with other federal agencies. They can contact the IRS & persuade them to drop the issue.
Collection agents are difficult to reason with because they have heard every reason not to pay & they are trained to be highly suspicious.
Good luck.

 

[MichaelB]

Call your congressional rep and ask them to help. They are very good at resolving these type of constituent issues.

 

[Gumby]

Do not ignore the letters. That could easily compound your problem.....

How?

 

[Montecfo]

Do not ignore the letters. That could easily compound your problem. Try contacting your congress representative or one of your U.S. senators. They all have constituent services staff that specialize in dealing with other federal agencies. They can contact the IRS & persuade them to drop the issue.
Collection agents are difficult to reason with because they have heard every reason not to pay & they are trained to be highly suspicious.
Good luck.

I would not ignore. I would respond to each letter with a new response and copies of prior responses. Send certified mail.

You do not want them levying a bank account.

 

[aja8888]

Call your congressional rep and ask them to help. They are very good at resolving these type of constituent issues.

There is also a Tax Advocate service in your state to have them help you settle the issue. It's free.

 

[MichaelB]

How?

If the IRS determines there was a tax liability that the executor left unpaid can’t it go after the executor's assets?

 

[Jerry1]

I’m in the “ignore it” camp. The OP has the documentation to prove the debt was paid (doesn’t exist) and is having trouble getting a reasonable engagement with the debt collector. By ignoring it, it will either just go away or if they get more aggressive in the collection effort, then there will likely be a better individual to have the discussion with.

Maybe ignore isn’t the right word. I would only respond to their specific correspondence on the matter. I wouldn’t go above and beyond. It’s their issue, not yours. Wait for them to come to the table.

 

[Gumby]

If the IRS determines there was a tax liability that the executor left unpaid can’t it go after the executor's assets?

As a lawyer, I would not bring a case with evidence of payment having been submitted not once, but twice to the alleged creditor. And if payment was made and evidence exists showing payment, then any such case will not last long in court even if it is brought. Yes, this involves a court and all that entails, but if you have actually paid, you will win. And if it is the debt collector bringing the case rather than the IRS itself, you will not only win, but also get your attorney's fees and statutory damages. It is a violation of the FDCPA to try to collect a debt that is not owed.

 

[LateToFIRE]

When it comes to the IRS, no news is good news. The key question is whether or not there is a claim filed in probate against the estate. If there is, then has to be resolved before you can close out the estate. If there isn't then you're good to go. To MichaelB's question (and DW and I have been executors a couple times), I'm pretty sure they cannot go after the executor's own assets, but the probate cannot be closed out until all claims are resolved. If they did not file a claim in probate then they are SOL.

 

[aja8888]

I'm surprised the IRS turned this claim over to a collection agency seeing the IRS IS a collection agency. When I was battling the IRS on a tax filing they lost of mine (my business), they pounded me monthly for the alleged $15 + K owed, which I did not owe. It only took 3.5 years to straighten this out.

I framed the apology letter the IRS eventually sent me and it's hanging in my office.

 

[Sunset]

I'm surprised the IRS turned this claim over to a collection agency seeing the IRS IS a collection agency. When I was battling the IRS on a tax filing they lost of mine (my business), they pounded me monthly for the alleged $15 + K owed, which I did not owe. It only took 3.5 years to straighten this out.

I framed the apology letter the IRS eventually sent me and it's hanging in my office.

Exactly why I'm suspicious of the collection agency calling....

I've had disagreements with the tax agencies, and it takes months for them to respond to a letter, and often repeated statements of proof and reasoning, etc... Then at some point it is resolved, often involving filing more or amended tax forms (even if the final taxes paid are the same).

Never a collection agency involved. As a taxpayer I have to wonder about the waste of gov't selling off my debt for pennies on the dollar, waste of taxpayer money, since they can seize/garnish so much.