HDL Raising Statins?

Want2retire said:
I don't know what the article says, or if it even applies to your case. Just providing the link, in the interests of promoting nice, long lives for cute fuzzy bunnies everywhere.
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I think I read that one, but i'll have to re-read it. IIRC my issue with that one was they pulled up historic data for people with heart trouble, and found the ones with high triglycerides and low cholesterol still had heart trouble. What they didnt do was go find if people with the same conditions ever lived fine without heart trouble.

Sort of like pulling up a list of auto accidents and finding out that in half of them people were talking on the phone and therefore concluding that the phone caused half of all accidents.

A cause and effect problem, a causation/correlation problem, plus a problem with specific sampling.

My skeptic alarm also notes that the study was launched not too long after Tricor and its siblings were FDA approved.
 
cute fuzzy bunny said:
A cause and effect problem, a causation/correlation problem, plus a problem with specific sampling.
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Don't put too much faith in science. At least not yet. Scientists aren't allowed to make arbitrary experiments on humans. And humans live for a long time. So, science is at a huge disadvantage in figuring this stuff out. Correlation is the best you're going to get for a while.

Have you tried a low-carb diet? It works to lower TG, and the mechanism of action is pretty clear. Also, if your serum TG is too high, that seems to be a pretty clear signal that you're simply eating too much, BaconBoy. :)

It's interesting to think in terms of mechanisms of actions when discussing CHD too.

My understanding is that the primary worry is plaque formation. The secondary worry is that plaques will break off. And a tertiary worry is systemic inflamation.

Serum cholesterol and TG aren't great biomarkers for any of these conditions. They may come up with better tests that more directly test for inflamation. And I think they can do ultrasound tests that can help find high levels of plaque formation.

The risk of plaques breaking off is the interesting one. One of the theories about the benefits of eating fish fat is they think the fat helps stablize the plaques.

In any case, my general impression is that docs have no clue about any of this stuff, so avoid going to the doctor until they figure it all out. :)
 
twaddle said:
In any case, my general impression is that docs have no clue about any of this stuff, so avoid going to the doctor until they figure it all out. :)
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Probably explains why some with good genes and bad habits live to 105!

:eek:
 
My mom is on the maximum dose of Lipitor (IIRC), 4x the "normal" dose she says, with zero effect over a number of years. She's at 250+ total cholesterol and has been there for at least 15 years. She says her doc will discontinue the drugs soon. So they may have no effect for some!

On the other hand, again IIRC from the conversation yesterday, my uncle's also going off the drugs. But that's because his cholesterol is now at 90 and he's on the normal 1x dose. So they may have a giant effect as well.

I already do most of the good things to lower my cholesterol, but my reading just jumped to 204 from 186 last year. Jeez... I'm just hoping it was a bad day.


Dan
 
Watch out for Niacin

twaddle said:
Niacin. Good. Cheap. Effective.

But it might make you glow in the dark. (BTW, shouldn't you be asking your doc?)
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I took Niacin for a month and saw not difference in my HDL. But boy did the side effects make a difference. I had hot flashes like crazy from that stuff. I would take it an hour before bed and wake up with my skin on fire. I was as red as a berry.

I told my wife that when she goes through the change, she will have my complete respect and attention. Those hot flashes were out of control..
 
Rich_in_Tampa said:
No, they don't. It's more like "less flushing than regular niacin" nicacin.

They have slow release niacin (e.g. niaspan) which has a lower incidence of flushing, though it is around $150 per month. It still causes flushing in quite a few who take it. For many of those an aspirin taken an hour before (if you take aspirin anyhow) can prevent flushing.

No perfect solution.
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Well, according to the supplement folks:

1)Fish oil
2)Red Yeast Extract
3)CO-Q10
4)Folic acid
5)B complex vitamin

EVERY DAY!!!
 
RetireeRobert said:
...In short, what kinds of experiences have folks had with the various cholestrol meds?
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Here’s part of what I’ve learned:

Some "minor side effects" can be deal breakers: my system could not tolerate Lovastatin and brand x, Zocor was ineffective but the 4th one, Lipitor, works fine. I’ve been fully compliant on Lipitor for about two years starting when I blew out my knees and didn’t get as much exercise. The knees are back and I take great joy in jaywalking again. I take Co-Q-10.

To conflate seven years of discussions about chest pain: my doc. repeatedly telling me he can not refer me to cardiology; a substitute doc. looking me straight in the face to emphasize, "people like you don’t have heart disease;" a group of cardiologists one by one taking notes on my story and congratulating me on avoiding a major heart attack; and back to my original doc., "I hate to be right."


When taking life-time medications or recovering from a cardio event, don’t expect a little help (or moral support) from your friends. (See other posts on this and other statin threads.)

If I had it to do over again: pre-cardio event, I would have taken doc’s hints to take a statin and more importantly I would ave stayed on and increased the dosage of a beta blocker. With doc.’s knowledge, I went off of the beta blocker because of fatigue. Now I believe that the fatigue may have been a symptom of the underlying cardio vascular problem.
 
newguy888 said:
There is a big UNDERREPORTING of muscle pains with the taking of statins and that memory fog. Everyone of my contemporaries who have been on statins complain of aches when walking, jogging if they jog pain in their upper arms when playing golf etc. All in their late 40s and early 50s and have been on the statins for years. All still carry a belly and all have had cardiac issues even since the start of the statin. Addition of stents.

So I will keep watching the food that goes into my mouth and keep running.
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How do we know that their pain isn't from their body lugging around 40-50 extra pounds or more, or that the pain is from a old rotator cuff injury, etc?

Bottom line, we just don't know........:p
 
No one has mentioned flax seed oil. It's nasty tasting but they have in it a gel pill form now that's easier to take than the liquid. My cholesterol dropped from 220 to 180 some time ago. I stopped taking it and my cholesterol went back to 223 again with Kaiser sending a prescription in the mail for Mevacor. Instead I started back on the flax seed oil, dropped pretty much all baked goods, dairy (already a vegetarian), added more fish to my diet which (I started eating two years ago). Haven't gone back yet for another check. Hoping the flax seed oil will do it again.:D

I've been exercising for years but since I retired I've stepped it up a notch. High cholesterol runs in my family also (maternal side).
 
mountaintosea said:
No one has mentioned flax seed oil. It's nasty tasting but they have in it a gel pill form now that's easier to take than the liquid. My cholesterol dropped from 220 to 180 some time ago. I stopped taking it and my cholesterol went back to 223 again with Kaiser sending a prescription in the mail for Mevacor. Instead I started back on the flax seed oil, dropped pretty much all baked goods, dairy (already a vegetarian), added more fish to my diet which (I started eating two years ago). Haven't gone back yet for another check. Hoping the flax seed oil will do it again.:D

I've been exercising for years but since I retired I've stepped it up a notch. High cholesterol runs in my family also (maternal side).
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Your lifestyle is an inspiration. I'd forgotten why I always grind a lot of flax seeds into the flour--brain fog?
 
CuppaJoe said:
Your lifestyle is an inspiration. I'd forgotten why I always grind a lot of flax seeds into the flour--brain fog?
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Thanks! I just hope it works. I'm thinking about waiting until April to check my levels, same time as last year.:)
 
approves:
 

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statins & alzheimer's

Yahoo!

"i don't want to be the person in a nursing home with the lowest chlorestoral."

Health Journal - WSJ.com

"This drug makes women stupid," Orli Etingin, vice chairman of medicine at New York Presbyterian Hospital...Pfizer Inc.'s Lipitor is the world's best-selling medicine, with revenues of $12.6 billion in 2007... the brain is largely cholesterol, much of it in the myelin sheaths that insulate nerve cells and in the synapses that transmit nerve impulses. Lowering cholesterol could slow the connections that facilitate thought and memory. Statins may also lead to the formation of abnormal proteins seen in the brains of Alzheimer's patients.
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Man think that vascular cholesterol contributes to Alzheimers. The best evidence is today is only poor to intermediate in quality and suggests a10-20% drop in dementia in patients taking statins (along with a 10-20% drop in strokes).

I do not feel this evidence is robust enough to draw credible conclusions, but that's where we are with this.
 
I have been taking artic krill as an omega-3 supplement for about two months (I mentioned krill in a previous post). Last week I went for an "routine annual visit" and the doc checked my numbers. My HDL was 62 (no, I don't exercise), my LDL was 126, my total cholesterol was 197 and my triglycerides were down to 45! They usually run about 75-80 and a drop to 45 seems pretty significant. The krill is the only thing I have been doing differently but the real test will be checking DH's triglycerides and seeing whether they have dropped also. His don't exceed 150 but if they drop 40-50% like mine did, that will be positive.
 
Buckeye said:
I have been taking artic krill as an omega-3 supplement for about two months (I mentioned krill in a previous post). Last week I went for an "routine annual visit" and the doc checked my numbers. My HDL was 62 (no, I don't exercise), my LDL was 126, my total cholesterol was 197 and my triglycerides were down to 45! They usually run about 75-80 and a drop to 45 seems pretty significant. The krill is the only thing I have been doing differently but the real test will be checking DH's triglycerides and seeing whether they have dropped also. His don't exceed 150 but if they drop 40-50% like mine did, that will be positive.
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What brand and where did you get it?
 
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