Long Term Care Insurance

My question to all, at this stage of the thread, is: Does anyone know of anyone currently reaping the benefits of having paid premiums for LTCI? If so, how's that going?
Most skilled nursing patients are in their 80s at the time of admission, just FYI. You might surface a few here via elderly family members, etc. but doubt many of them have LTC.

One of my hesitations about this is that even if I need it, it will likely be 20 years from now. That's a lot of premiums, a lot of increases in premiums, and a perhaps a nontrivial risk of insurer insvolvency over 20 years (to my knowledge, LTCI does not have a state-mandated reserve backup plan as do annuities). And the longer you have been paying in to the policy, the more reluctant you will be to terminate and leave all that money on the table.
 
The only LTC carrier I would personally buy from is NML. When they decided to start offering LTC, they brought the guy over from Genworth who set up Genworth's program.

I have personally seen how Medicaid works and have NO WISH to be in that position, ever............
 
The only LTC carrier I would personally buy from is NML. When they decided to start offering LTC, they brought the guy over from Genworth who set up Genworth's program.

I have personally seen how Medicaid works and have NO WISH to be in that position, ever............

Their rates are significantly higher than Genworth/JH for a similar policy. Better financial stability and less risk of a rate increase, but given the cost difference, basically has one built in already.
 
In case you missed it:

Kiplinger.com

The 40% will likely apply only to policies with 5% compound inflation riders and the increases will depend on the specific riders. Policies with CPI-adjusted benefits supposedly will not have any increases. As I said earlier, compound inflation policies probably won't exist 5-10 years from now and they will start watering down what options are available. If you had told someone 10 years ago that an affordable health insurance policy might have a $5,000 or $7,500 deductible, they'd have said you were nuts. This is only my personal opinion of course and I very well could be wrong.
 
Near the end of her life, my mother needed to be in a nursing home and had no long term insurance. But managing the situation wasn't all that bad. Medicare and her supplementary insurance paid almost everything -- the supplementary insurance (Aetna through the Ohio PERS system) paid up to 100 days per year in a nursing home so long as it counted as rehabilitation rather than custodial care. And much of the time she was home with me, Medicare paid for home care, which a was a small crew spending several hours with her several times a week: a RN, a physical therapist, and two other specialists. Not a great experience for me, but doable.
 
My question to all, at this stage of the thread, is: Does anyone know of anyone currently reaping the benefits of having paid premiums for LTCI? If so, how's that going?
Well, in family Nords that's an issue.

Anyone spending 24-48 hours with my father would classify him as suffering from effects similar to short-term dementia. Whether that's caused by diet, alcohol, blood-pressure medication, other circulatory issues, dementia brain damage, or Alzheimer's is purely conjectural because he insists that everything is fine and he doesn't want to be "some doctor's lab rat". I can sympathize with the emotions but not the logic. According to one geriatric care provider, "There's no reasoning with these people because many of them are no longer capable of it."

So, in my inexpert opinion he's ready to reap the benefits of his Hancock policy. He's certainly paid enough since the 1990s to merit the privilege. Whether he'll survive the consequences of his symptoms long enough to do so is quite another question.
 
The need for LTC is the type of risk that I think makes sense to insure against. Unfortunately, the market doesn't sell a policy that meets my needs. What I'd want:

- A stable company with a long history of paying claims reliably and not raising rates (accurate underwritning/accurate cost projections are signs of competence. Not many insurance companies have demonstrated competence WRT LTCI).

- Shared coverage: We only need coverage if one of us needs LTC and the other is still living without it, so a shared benefit policy is more efficient than buying two individual policies. Once one of us dies, if the other needs LTC then SS, sale of the house and other assets, our nest egg, and a pension check will cover the bill. In the unlikely event that we both need LTC at the same time, I'd be wiling to gamble that the period we'd both need help would be short.

- True insurance: We can self-insure for a big chunk of this risk, and would like to do so. I'd like a 24 month exclusionary (waiting) period, and then about 7 years of shared benefits at a modest $/day benefit rate (again reflecting the fact that we can self-insure somewhat. We don't need every nickel of care paid for by the insurance).

We haven't found a policy like that. If we could, I'd guess the premiums might be fairly reasonable, given the self-insurance we're willing to do.

This sounds like something we might be interested in too.
If you find anything close, please be sure to post info on it.

Thanks!
 
One of my hesitations about this is that even if I need it, it will likely be 20 years from now. That's a lot of premiums, a lot of increases in premiums, and a perhaps a nontrivial risk of insurer insvolvency over 20 years (to my knowledge, LTCI does not have a state-mandated reserve backup plan as do annuities). And the longer you have been paying in to the policy, the more reluctant you will be to terminate and leave all that money on the table.

AFAIK, LTC policies are covered by state insurance guaranty associations just like every other type of retail insurance policy. And insurers are definately required to put up reserves on their books by the state insurance regulators.

Now wehther you are comfy with the protection afforded by the state guaranty system is an exercise left up to the reader.
 
AFAIK, LTC policies are covered by state insurance guaranty associations just like every other type of retail insurance policy. And insurers are definately required to put up reserves on their books by the state insurance regulators.
Thanks, Brewer. Seems that doesn't get talked about as often as it does for annuities.

Good to know, Reserves on their (the insurance company's) books doesn't feel nearly as warm and fuzzy as already-collected dollars in a state run reserve pool.
 
Well, in family Nords that's an issue.

Anyone spending 24-48 hours with my father would classify him as suffering from effects similar to short-term dementia. Whether that's caused by diet, alcohol, blood-pressure medication, other circulatory issues, dementia brain damage, or Alzheimer's is purely conjectural because he insists that everything is fine and he doesn't want to be "some doctor's lab rat". I can sympathize with the emotions but not the logic. According to one geriatric care provider, "There's no reasoning with these people because many of them are no longer capable of it."

So, in my inexpert opinion he's ready to reap the benefits of his Hancock policy. He's certainly paid enough since the 1990s to merit the privilege. Whether he'll survive the consequences of his symptoms long enough to do so is quite another question.

Check your dad's LTC policy and see what the requirements are for having it start. In our case it was needing assistance with 3 of 5 ADL's (Activities of Daily Living: Eating, Dressing, Bathing, Toileting, Transferring, Continence). If you have to remind him daily of these items even though he is somewhat capable you may be able to get his doctor to sign the required affidavit to say he needs supervision and can then have the policy benefits start. Although it's not specifically listed, medication management figures in to it also.

Good luck to you-
Frances
 
The only LTC carrier I would personally buy from is NML. When they decided to start offering LTC, they brought the guy over from Genworth who set up Genworth's program.

I have personally seen how Medicaid works and have NO WISH to be in that position, ever............

sorry to be a bit of a dunce, but who is "NML"?:blush:
thanks-
 
Good to know, Reserves on their (the insurance company's) books doesn't feel nearly as warm and fuzzy as already-collected dollars in a state run reserve pool.

True, but even then . . .

"In the news today, just two weeks before the election, Governor Blowhard announced that the much-feared default on state bonds and the threatened layoff of state employees had been averted. "Last night's action by the legislature puts formerly idle money that had been languishing in various reserve pools to work for the benefit of our state. I'm proud to sign this bill today. The money we'll avoid paying in higher bond interest will allow us to pay back all the money as soon as this temporary crisis has passed . . ."

I guess there comes a point when you have to trust somebody, but it's not as easy as it was three years ago.
 
Thanks, Brewer. Seems that doesn't get talked about as often as it does for annuities.

Good to know, Reserves on their (the insurance company's) books doesn't feel nearly as warm and fuzzy as already-collected dollars in a state run reserve pool.


State reserve pool? You mean the state guaranty fund? If so, LTC policies are definately covered.

All you ever wanted to know about state guaranty funds (but were afraid/to bored to ask): nolhga.com :: welcome
 
True, but even then . . .

"In the news today, just two weeks before the election, Governor Blowhard announced that the much-feared default on state bonds and the threatened layoff of state employees had been averted. "Last night's action by the legislature puts formerly idle money that had been languishing in various reserve pools to work for the benefit of our state. I'm proud to sign this bill today. The money we'll avoid paying in higher bond interest will allow us to pay back all the money as soon as this temporary crisis has passed . . ."

I guess there comes a point when you have to trust somebody, but it's not as easy as it was three years ago.

Florida did exactly that with Citizens Insurance (state-run insurer of last resort), as I understand it. From what I have read, they had trouble closing the state budget gap, so they raided the kitty at Citizens with the promise to just issue some debt if a big hurricane hit. Do you feel lucky?
 
Florida did exactly that with Citizens Insurance (state-run insurer of last resort), as I understand it. From what I have read, they had trouble closing the state budget gap, so they raided the kitty at Citizens with the promise to just issue some debt if a big hurricane hit. Do you feel lucky?
IIRC Berkshire Hathaway profited handsomely from Florida's desperation...
 
Northwestern Mutual Life, I think.

Yes, they changed their name to the "warm and fuzzy" NMFN (Northwestern Mutual Financial Network), but most folks still call them NML..........;)
 
IIRC Berkshire Hathaway profited handsomely from Florida's desperation...

As did the rest of the reinsurance industry. But it sure sucks to be a primary insurer or policyholder down there.
 
This was noted and linked in a new thread today, but seems appropriate to mention here: 'Premium hikes loom for long-term care insurance'
One of the nation's largest providers of long-term care insurance is planning to raise premiums an average of 40% next year — a move that revives the longstanding question of whether the pitfalls of buying a long-term care policy outweigh the payoffs....

At the root of rate increases past and future is a pattern of seller's remorse in the LTC business. Collectively, LTC insurers have had a long history of selling coverage to thousands of people at particular prices, only to discover later that they underestimated the money they'd ultimately have to pay out in claims.
 
Forget lti

As an American living in Greece & traveling worldwide I agree with all the comments on policy restrictions & scams. The ONLY way I see anyone surviving a decent living condition if you are in this situation is to move to one of the cheaper countries in Asia. Thailand being one of them. Health coverage & hospital put the USA to shame in all respects. You can get a nice inexpensive furnished apt from 200 to 500 US dollars a month plus a woman to watch after you in your troubled times for another 100 or so. Granted this will vary depending on who or what you find but they are all dedicated. This can also be said of Mexico although I have no first hand experience on that yet.
I am totally disillusioned with he USA & feel they have failed in there efforts to make a better place for all of us. Although it is better than most the corruption is rampant & unfortunately you will be the one to pay.
Think about my proposal for you later years especially if you are alone or have no more family ties. If not it would be a great place for you grandkids to visit.
 
As an American living in Greece & traveling worldwide I agree with all the comments on policy restrictions & scams. The ONLY way I see anyone surviving a decent living condition if you are in this situation is to move to one of the cheaper countries in Asia. Thailand being one of them. Health coverage & hospital put the USA to shame in all respects. You can get a nice inexpensive furnished apt from 200 to 500 US dollars a month plus a woman to watch after you in your troubled times for another 100 or so. Granted this will vary depending on who or what you find but they are all dedicated. This can also be said of Mexico although I have no first hand experience on that yet.
I am totally disillusioned with he USA & feel they have failed in there efforts to make a better place for all of us. Although it is better than most the corruption is rampant & unfortunately you will be the one to pay.
Think about my proposal for you later years especially if you are alone or have no more family ties. If not it would be a great place for you grandkids to visit.

I think it would be pretty far fetched to think even 1% of people would consider moving away from everything they've ever known to live by themselves with family a world away just to save a few bucks. Mom and dad would probably love the idea of spending $6000 a trip on plane tickets to visit grandma or grandpa a few times a year. Could have just bought the LTC for that kind of money.
 
Ahh forgot the home bodies

I think it would be pretty far fetched to think even 1% of people would consider moving away from everything they've ever known to live by themselves with family a world away just to save a few bucks. Mom and dad would probably love the idea of spending $6000 a trip on plane tickets to visit grandma or grandpa a few times a year. Could have just bought the LTC for that kind of money.
I agree but if one gets to the point of everything getting too expensive, SS goes bust, your all alone & getiing sick & there are mnore immigrants at home than Americans it would be an option rather than end up on the streets as a box man. I have never regretted leaving the states & have learned a lot since I left & traveled. I love America but people have got to get organized & kick butt if they want to be free & happy. Life if short & then you die.
 
At the root of rate increases past and future is a pattern of seller's remorse in the LTC business. Collectively, LTC insurers have had a long history of selling coverage to thousands of people at particular prices, only to discover later that they underestimated the money they'd ultimately have to pay out in claims.

Geez, sounds a LOT like programs like Medicaid, Medicare, and SS..........:whistle:
 
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