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Old 11-29-2009, 03:22 PM   #41
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"It is no measure of good health to be well-adjusted to a sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
for the more ambitious, science, ethics and economics point more and more to the validity of the vegan diet.
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:14 PM   #42
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Problem: Can't stay on it for life, and, for some reason, meat really binds me up. Each person is different as it didn't do that to my friends.
Me too!!! I tried eating more meat about 3-4 weeks ago, after reading Good Calories, Bad Calories and thought I'd give this more meat thing a try. I only ate more meat and saturated fat for probably 3-4 days before I had to quit. I went back to eating my normal amount of meat and lots of veggies and fruit again.

Then, last week, I was in the hospital for 2.5 days with my second bout of pancreatitis. I have no idea if my little meat experiment started it or not, but, no more extra meat or saturated fat for me.
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:08 PM   #43
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Meat costs more, but you save on toilet paper.
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Old 11-29-2009, 06:09 PM   #44
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meat really binds me up.
I recommend that you try sitting in water?
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:09 PM   #45
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Me too!!! I tried eating more meat about 3-4 weeks ago, after reading Good Calories, Bad Calories and thought I'd give this more meat thing a try. I only ate more meat and saturated fat for probably 3-4 days before I had to quit. I went back to eating my normal amount of meat and lots of veggies and fruit again.

Then, last week, I was in the hospital for 2.5 days with my second bout of pancreatitis. I have no idea if my little meat experiment started it or not, but, no more extra meat or saturated fat for me.
I think this illustrates the problem of jumping into a specific diet rather than making gradual permanent changes

for example, lets say you would normally have a bagel with light cream cheese and jam, lets say with a coke for lunch, which would be a huge carb bomb, first spiking your blood sugar, then your insulin, then the insulin will overshoot and you will crash to low blood sugar a couple of hours later, and be very hungry.

for starters, regular cream cheese would have more fat, and slow down digestion. Then, bagels are very glycemic, so switch to a coarser bread, maybe a rye or grain bread, if you can handle it (I don't know offhand which breads are actually better...would have to look that up). Then maybe have a ham sandwich instead of cream cheese one day, and instead of jam you are really lathering on the mustard, which actually pretty good for you.

Instead of the coke, see if you can tolerate a club soda, or if at home, start cutting your soft drinks with 50% club soda, to slowing acclimitize your taste buds. If you are drinking milk, don't feel guilty about using 3% or even putting cream on cereal.

If you feel a craving for a comfort food, go for the burger rather than the spagetti, and when eating pasta, go for whole grain al dente (undercooked as much as you can tolerate, the way real italians cook it), which is no adjustment whatsoever, and tone down the pasta, turn up the volume of sauce, cut in some italian sausage, and maybe keep pasta down to once per week, if it is a weakness, or switch to veal parmesan, if it is the tomato/cheese thing you are after.

one aspect of losing weight is....which food choice will postpone hunger for as long as possible, and if bacon and cream is your thing, go for it. If those are not attractive, go for healthier proteins such as keeping colds cuts in the fridge for snacks.

Of course, if you are eating because of compusion or boredom, and not out of actual hunger, that calls for a different approach, which might rather be making yourself busier somehow or having the courage to pursue an new interest that you have been shy about.

I think part of the thing is reading and figuring out what the low hanging fruit is in your diet that is sabotaging you, and saying to yourself, well, I don't really enjoy that particular food anyway, and I would be really happy to be able to eat this other food that I mistakenly thought was fattening.

One idea I play around with is deciding for example that you want to lose 4 pounds in one month, or one pound a week, 1/7th of a pound per day. Then you put this line on a crude chart on the fridge or an excel chart that takes you from current weight to new weight over 30 days. You have a morning weigh in, and mark the spot on the chart. If you are above the line, you basically don't eat that day. Fasting never killed anyone. After fasting a day, you will be very motivated to make every thing you put in your mouth count, to hold off hunger the next day, and to stay below the line.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:27 AM   #46
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- alchohol is loaded with calories, use with caution. Cocktail hour for me usually is a half ounce of vodka in a martini glass of dark cherry juice, the latter which helps lower uric acid levels. (I didn't like my uric reading last blood test)
- I often end the evening with a very rustic seedy granola and top it off with psyillium husks and ground flax, with goat milk.

oh yeah, fatness is contagious...all your overweight friends and relative will unconsciously undermine you - that goes for all things...pick your friend carefully, for that is your future

Just had to laugh. The imagine of the martini followed by goat milk made me envision a slightly tipsy person trying to milk an irate goat. I can see how that might burn a few extra calories.

And well said, after lunching for many years with 3 very overweight colleagues, I could see that they empowered each other to ignore their weight as a health issue. One routine that sticks out in my mind vividly is the daily game of "oh, I should have a second dish of ice cream..." and the "oh go ahead, it's only this once."

So peer pressure or lack thereof is definitely a factor.

We eat only fish for protien (skip even the poultry) and find there is enough variety of types and cooking methods to keep it interesting. And broccoli, carrots, bell peppers, tomatoes, spinach and lots of berries.

So, no particular diet, just healthy choices.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:53 AM   #47
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Pancreatitis, from what I gathered from a friend who said she almost died from it, is caused by things like nuts or popcorn (she was a popcorn addict) which end up in little pockets of your intestine. She really had it badly, and didn't sound like meat did it to her. Maybe someone more in the know is on this forum?
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:11 AM   #48
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Orchid, are you referring to diverticulitis rather than pancreatitis?
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:05 PM   #49
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I guess one more reason to skip the popcorn. It was banned in our household by DWs periodontist, who says the husks can get up into the gums and wreak havoc.

I then found a version of husk-less popcorn, which we enjoyed, but then it was placed on the "too tempting to have in the house list" - foods that we like too much, that override our capacity for self control, are not allowed in the house
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:07 PM   #50
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The imagine of the martini followed by goat milk made me envision a slightly tipsy person trying to milk an irate goat. I can see how that might burn a few extra calories.
well, the goat gets a martini too to soften her resistance
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:10 PM   #51
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And well said, after lunching for many years with 3 very overweight colleagues, I could see that they empowered each other to ignore their weight as a health issue. One routine that sticks out in my mind vividly is the daily game of "oh, I should have a second dish of ice cream..." and the "oh go ahead, it's only this once."
I think it is the freakonomics guy that found a link between the weight of friends of friends and your future weight, so great is the influence. For example, collegues of DW cook things for her and that stuff is brought home, and hoovered by yours truely upon sight

reminds me of a similar Antony Robbins idea, that you future income will approach the average income of those you association with.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:28 PM   #52
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I guess one more reason to skip the popcorn. It was banned in our household by DWs periodontist, who says the husks can get up into the gums and wreak havoc.

I then found a version of husk-less popcorn, which we enjoyed, but then it was placed on the "too tempting to have in the house list" - foods that we like too much, that override our capacity for self control, are not allowed in the house
We use that strategy too. I call it the "you can't eat it if you ain't got it" plan. It helps that there are no kids living at home and that the nearest grocery store is 13 miles away
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:42 PM   #53
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You're right, REWahoo...diverticulitis. I need to get my diseases straight I see. Regardless, I'm not eating much popcorn anymore after hearing that story.

I did make the ultimate sacrifice and boxed up two jars of dry roasted cashews for my son to take to his apartment...sniff, sniff. And threw away the excess spinich-artichoke dip made with parmesan, pepper jack cheese, mayo, etc. (a fantastic Paula Deen recipe) that was the appetizer for Thanksgiving....I may cry now...sniff, sniff. All my favorite fatty foods are leaving one by one...goodbye old, faithful friends..............sob, sob, sob.... Guess I need to dump the chocolate ice cream, too, now....aaaaargh!
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:49 PM   #54
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... I'm not eating much popcorn anymore after hearing that story.
I'd heard the same issues with nuts and popcorn, but here's what the Mayo Clinic site I referenced above has to say about it:
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In the past, doctors thought that nuts, seeds, popcorn and corn played a role in causing diverticulitis by getting trapped in the diverticula. However, recent research has found that these foods weren't associated with an increased risk of diverticulitis.
I'm not giving them up - at least not yet.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:37 PM   #55
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We use that strategy too. I call it the "you can't eat it if you ain't got it" plan.
As Ben Franklin said: "A fat kitchen makes a lean will."
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:44 PM   #56
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I need to get my diseases straight I see.
This must be the disease for you...

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Old 11-30-2009, 07:04 PM   #57
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meat really binds me up.
Even Atkins recommends intake of fiber. Fiber is an important key to losing weight.

Have you tried eating a lot of raw veggies? (celery sticks, carrot sticks, salad with romaine lettuce, avocado, jicama, raw nuts)
You can also do cooked veggies like brussel sprouts and lima beans, but I do well with raw veggies myself.

I do well with eating tons of meat as long as I eat a lot of fibrous foods - mainly raw veggies and some fruit.

(I am in a lousy place right now though - I had several See's nut candies (dark chocolate but still) and a slice of pumpkin pie during the holidays...)
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Old 11-30-2009, 07:09 PM   #58
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Atkins doesn't necessarily equal fatty foods, is my understanding. I saw Robert Atkin's wife on an interview one time (when her husband was still alive) and she said while R. Atkins ate red meat a lot, she preferred salmon with broccoli and such.
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:26 AM   #59
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Even Atkins recommends intake of fiber. Fiber is an important key to losing weight.

Have you tried eating a lot of raw veggies? (celery sticks, carrot sticks, salad with romaine lettuce, avocado, jicama, raw nuts)
You can also do cooked veggies like brussel sprouts and lima beans, but I do well with raw veggies myself.

I do well with eating tons of meat as long as I eat a lot of fibrous foods - mainly raw veggies and some fruit.

(I am in a lousy place right now though - I had several See's nut candies (dark chocolate but still) and a slice of pumpkin pie during the holidays...)
I seem to recall John D MacDonald's Travis McGee promoting the meat and veggie diet, no alchohol, this going back to the 50s.

You could also raise the ratio of protein to fat by selecting leaner meats like a hot beef sandwich vs a hamburger, or a ham/proscuitto sandwhich vs balony.

One of my favorite treats is to take a can of chickpeas, open, rinse, put in bowl.

In separate bowl, add half cup or so of olive oil, the most virgin according to your palette. Shake in some garlic powder, lets say 5 times, fresh garlic if you are up to it. Add maybe a couple of teaspoons of salt, and a teaspoon of pepper. Then add white wine vineager a tablespoon at a time, tasting, and stopping when you get a nice tangy smack in the head from it. Mix this up good and pour on the chickpeas. Stir. Eat. I find this to be better than potato chips...great fibre bomb....ease yourself into it or there will be trouble.
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:32 AM   #60
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As Ben Franklin said: "A fat kitchen makes a lean will."
BF quotes are great.

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