Maybe Niacin really is a wonder drug....

[ERD50]

The study was funded by Abbott, which makes a prescription niacin product.

That little factoid assures the article will pass from my mailbox to my trash can.

How often does one find a study that hasn't either been funded by an interested party, or designed and run by investigators who regularly get funding from interested parties?

Ha

I was also surprised by Rich's comment, though I know a lot of people have this reaction.

If you are looking for a "disinterested" third party to spend a lot of money on a study like this, I think that, by definition, they won't have much interest in doing that So we often have to rely on studies funded by "interested" parties.

I used to get "white papers" from companies trying to get me to approve purchase their products for use by the mega-corp I was with. They were useful, and the sales rep knew we were looking for info relevant to our application, not a sales pitch. And they knew we would challenge the assumptions, test conditions, financial payback numbers etc. We took it all (and any data we get) with a grain of salt. But it was still useful to us - for example, if they claimed it could do "2X" under what we assumed would be favorable conditions, and we already knew we could achive "3X" for less cost, no need to look further.

So what is the alternative? No data at all? Should we not allow any industry studies at all? Do we rely on the FDA to test everything that might have interest for us? Will they be considered a "disinterested" third party after HC reform? Are they now?

Now, I will suggest one reform for these kinds of pharma studies - the pharma should have to publicly register the details of the proposed study prior to undertaking it, and then make the results public, good or bad. Right now, as I understand it, they can run 100 studies, and just publish the ones favorable to them, and we never know. There should be some transparent "clearing house" to collate all the relevant studies so that the pharma can't just cherry-pick what they want.

For me, this is the same as news from the media - I don't care so much what the source is, but they better back up their statements - facts are facts, regardless the source.

-ERD50

 

[FinanceDude]

The study was funded by Abbott, which makes a prescription niacin product.

The big labs do a lot of this......

Now, I will suggest one reform for these kinds of pharma studies - the pharma should have to publicly register the details of the proposed study prior to undertaking it, and then make the results public, good or bad. Right now, as I understand it, they can run 100 studies, and just publish the ones favorable to them, and we never know. There should be some transparent "clearing house" to collate all the relevant studies so that the pharma can't just cherry-pick what they want.

Geez, not asking for much, are ya?

 

[windsurf]

Audreyh1 said: Now don't forget that olive oil helps raise HDL! Well, maybe not nearly as much as niacin.

I miss olive oil:



Happy Healthy Long Life: I'm Going to Miss My Olive Oil - Who Knew It Wasn't So Healthy After All? Drs. Esselstyn, Ornish, Vogel & Rudel Did

 

[harley]

I'm not sure how you could read that article and come up with a title that includes the word "happy". Don't these people know they're going to die someday anyway?

 

[Westernskies]

Flashing while flushing? Now I'm blushing! blush: <---blush smiley)

Hijacked from the haiku thread?

 

[haha]

The study was funded by Abbott, which makes a prescription niacin product.
Now, I will suggest one reform for these kinds of pharma studies - the pharma should have to publicly register the details of the proposed study prior to undertaking it, and then make the results public, good or bad. Right now, as I understand it, they can run 100 studies, and just publish the ones favorable to them, and we never know. There should be some transparent "clearing house" to collate all the relevant studies so that the pharma can't just cherry-pick what they want.

-ERD50

Excellent idea. The current practice is "pitch till you win" kind of a fraud- light. You wil occasionally win betting a number on a roulette wheel, so why not try?

But the public loses, as usual.

Ha

 

[Dawg52]

Oh yeah - and rowing machines! Rowing machines help raise HDL!

Audrey

How about wrist curls?

 

[ls99]

My stars and little comets! 1000 mg niacin! Niacin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(That is = 3,000 mg).

However...



Maybe I should try a little myself?

Me no doctor, nor do I play one nowadays. I did once in kiddie garden with some girls and got suspended for it.

Experiments while under a real MD's watchful eyes showed that slow release niacin (i.e. expensive Niaspan) was less useful and caused more complications for me than the immediate release stuff.

YMMV.

Edit add: my body will not tolerate statins, gimes me the case of the stupids, along with muscle/joint pains. My understanding is that the chief benefit of statins is their anti inflammatory function. That can be achieved with stuff a lot cheaper etc.....

Again: YMMV.
Flameproof underwear donned!

 

[tmm99]

Being curious reading this thread, I bought some Slo-Niacin (500mg), and I took a half of 500mg last night after dinner. In about 5 minutes I started feeling this warm in the belly and felt like the warm was being radiated all over my body after a while (even my feet were warm) and then I started feeling a slight (very slight) headache coming on but then it went away and my warm feeling too in about 30-40 minutes. Is this the flushing you guys are talking about?

So taking aspirin is supposed to help with this flushing? What aggrevates it? My first flushing experience wasn't particularly a bad one (I sort of enjoyed it, up to the point where I felt a slight headache coming on), but I am just wondering...

Do you guys (gals) just take niacin alone? I've always been told that you should take any one vitamin B component with the Vit B complex.

Thanks.

 

[audreyh1]

my body will not tolerate statins, gimes me the case of the stupids, along with muscle/joint pains. My understanding is that the chief benefit of statins is their anti inflammatory function. That can be achieved with stuff a lot cheaper etc.....

So what do you use for an anti-inflammatory?

Audrey

 

[ls99]

So what do you use for an anti-inflammatory?

Audrey

I make ginger ale from real ginger. Chop up some ginger, add to water or green tea. Drink it all including chopped ginger. A few times a week. I am not very consistent with that, as with most anything else.

 

[cantlogin]

I remember my first niacin flush. It totally freaked me out! I thought I have been poisoned! Maybe I took a multi-vitamin on an empty stomach because it wasn't a new pill for me. And what blew my mind even more afterwards was how fast that vitamin metabolized!!!

Once I figured out what had happened, I switched from 100mg to 25mg niacin and didn't have problems.

Audrey

Holy moly! I take a 500/20 niacin/simvistatin once daily. LDL and TG are down dramatically; HDL is up mildly, but still in the 30s. I only get flashes occasionally, but some of them are real doozies, as in every hair follicle feels like a needle...

I've found that eating before taking the niacin makes a huge difference. That's a good description of the strong flushes, but if I eat about 10 minutes before taking the niacin I don't even notice it. I started on simvastatin about a month ago, and am down to 2 500 mg doses of niacin/day. I will go in for blood tests in a couple weeks. I suspect all my cholesterol numbers will be excellent (HDL in the high 30s is excellent for me), but she'll probably tell me my liver enzymes are high now and want to put me on another med.

As long as I can still take an occasional sip of scotch.

Bunch 'O sissies thinks I.

I'm not a drug user. I avoid aspirin unless I'm really in pain. I definitely have never had any interest in experimental drug use. I don't know why I'm influenced by this forums’ posters, BUT... I decided I wanted to see what this Niacin stuff was all about. In the health food department of the grocery store I found Niacin (B-3) Caps. Crystalline pure, yeast free, dietary supplement, 500mg in a real glass bottle. "For best results, take after meals". Sounds good to me.

Home I go, pop one capsule, make myself a snack and a cup of tea and sit down at the computer. Food finished, sipping tea and surfing the net about 20 minutes after the capsule pop. I started to feel the anticipated warm face and tingling. No mistaking it now, distinct warm flushing feeling spreading down my neck and arms. This is "cool" I'm thinking. Never before have I experienced such a distinct effect from ingesting anything. Wow! About 10 minutes after the first hint of flushing I'm feeling really warm all over REALLY warm. Wearing a T shirt, I went outside where the temperature was about 45 degrees and I feel even hotter. This is a good way to fight the cold I think. By the time I get back inside those needles are jabbing me all over. This isn't good. It hurts. Back at the computer I start to feel a little dizzy and then realize I should be sitting on the toilet instead. Staggering, walking into walls, I made it to the bathroom in time. I experienced some nausea too but it lasted only a minute or so and thankfully I didn't vomit. Nearly fainting, narrowed vision and everything sounding like it was far away I made it back to the computer and looked up Niacin side effects. Experiencing nothing that wasn't on the list I was reassured that I would survive. I also read that the Niacin should be take AFTER eating and hot drinks like coco or tea could exaggerate the flushing.

About an hour after experiencing the first effect the needling feeling has subsided and I just feel like I have a mild sunburn all over. Face is still a little red but I can see and hear ok again. The dizziness is diminished. I felt exhausted, went to bed and had no trouble falling asleep in spite of my now moderate discomfort. Three hours later I woke up feeling pretty normal except for moderate itching all over. By morning everything was fine and I decided I wasn't going to do THAT again.

A little more reading suggested that aspirin could ameliorate the flushing effect.


Lunch time. Abandoning my resolve to never do it again I ate two aspirin, ate lunch and 30 minutes after the aspirin intake I swallowed another Niacin capsule. I went to the computer without my cup of tea and strapped myself down to wait for the next episode. Without the experience from the night before I don't think I would even have noticed the slight warming I experienced after lunch. That was it. Nothing else, Pfffht.

I'm gonna try it again today without the aspirin.

 

[REWahoo]

I'm not a drug user.

It would appear the above statement is no longer accurate...

 

[cantlogin]

It would appear the above statement is no longer accurate...

Hey, I already TOLD you it says "Dietary Supplement" right on the label!

I'm innocent I tell ya, innocent!

 

[REWahoo]

The side effects are even showing up in your posts...

 

[HFWR]

It's for my glaucoma, officer...

 

[Bestwifeever]

Warning: sexist statement follows:

Any concoction that will allow people with XY chromosones to experience hot flashes can't be all bad.

End of sexist statement.

 

[harley]

How about wrist curls?

You're definitely on the right track. BBC News - Alcohol 'protects men's hearts'

 

[harley]

Bunch 'O sissies thinks I.

I'm not a drug user. I avoid aspirin unless I'm really in pain. I definitely have never had any interest in experimental drug use. I don't know why I'm influenced by this forums’ posters, BUT... I decided I wanted to see what this Niacin stuff was all about. In the health food department of the grocery store I found Niacin (B-3) Caps. Crystalline pure, yeast free, dietary supplement, 500mg in a real glass bottle. "For best results, take after meals". Sounds good to me.

Home I go, pop one capsule, make myself a snack and a cup of tea and sit down at the computer. Food finished, sipping tea and surfing the net about 20 minutes after the capsule pop. I started to feel the anticipated warm face and tingling. No mistaking it now, distinct warm flushing feeling spreading down my neck and arms. This is "cool" I'm thinking. Never before have I experienced such a distinct effect from ingesting anything. Wow! About 10 minutes after the first hint of flushing I'm feeling really warm all over REALLY warm. Wearing a T shirt, I went outside where the temperature was about 45 degrees and I feel even hotter. This is a good way to fight the cold I think. By the time I get back inside those needles are jabbing me all over. This isn't good. It hurts. Back at the computer I start to feel a little dizzy and then realize I should be sitting on the toilet instead. Staggering, walking into walls, I made it to the bathroom in time. I experienced some nausea too but it lasted only a minute or so and thankfully I didn't vomit. Nearly fainting, narrowed vision and everything sounding like it was far away I made it back to the computer and looked up Niacin side effects. Experiencing nothing that wasn't on the list I was reassured that I would survive. I also read that the Niacin should be take AFTER eating and hot drinks like coco or tea could exaggerate the flushing.

About an hour after experiencing the first effect the needling feeling has subsided and I just feel like I have a mild sunburn all over. Face is still a little red but I can see and hear ok again. The dizziness is diminished. I felt exhausted, went to bed and had no trouble falling asleep in spite of my now moderate discomfort. Three hours later I woke up feeling pretty normal except for moderate itching all over. By morning everything was fine and I decided I wasn't going to do THAT again.

A little more reading suggested that aspirin could ameliorate the flushing effect.


Lunch time. Abandoning my resolve to never do it again I ate two aspirin, ate lunch and 30 minutes after the aspirin intake I swallowed another Niacin capsule. I went to the computer without my cup of tea and strapped myself down to wait for the next episode. Without the experience from the night before I don't think I would even have noticed the slight warming I experienced after lunch. That was it. Nothing else, Pfffht.

I'm gonna try it again today without the aspirin.

Well, I'm an experienced drug user. And as an expert I always recommend noobs start out a little easy. Seriously, when the doc put me on niacin I started with 100mg 3 times/day (after meals). Worked my way up to 500mg 3 times over a two week period. Back down to 500 mg twice/day now that I'm taking a statin too. I mean, seriously, that's why we have gateway drugs. Nobody should start out on heroin.

 

[harley]

my body will not tolerate statins, gimes me the case of the stupids, along with muscle/joint pains. My understanding is that the chief benefit of statins is their anti inflammatory function. That can be achieved with stuff a lot cheaper etc.....

This is interesting, and I'm looking for comments. I started on Simvastatin about a month ago. I previously complained about my blood sugar spiking after I started, but I've gotten that under control with some fairly serious dietary management.

However, about 2 1/2 weeks ago my right arm started aching in the shoulder and elbow. Serious aching, too, not really ignorable. It's bad enough that if it was in my left arm I'd be calling the paramedics. It feels like a combination of hyperextended elbow and a mild rotator cuff injury, plus significant limitation in reach and stretcing ability. I've been reading up on carpal tunnel, but the symptoms don't match. Now I'm wondering if it might be related to the statin. How does the joint/muscle ache show up in these instances? Can it be localized, like I have? Or is it general all over the body. I'm going to see the doctor in a week, but the more information I have the better. Any comments would be appreciated.

 

[ls99]

Harley, my aches were general body, for me it was slowness initially especially while doing JuJutsu, Had to knock off for about 3 months, even white belts were whupping my ass, later with serious pain in my knees, less so in other joints. A fair amount of memory problems as well.

At one point barely could walk 50' from garage to house. Took a week or so to recover after tossing the statins. It was sneaky, took a while to realize what was going on. This was about 7 years ago for me.

Only way to tell IMHO is to knock it off for a month. Good luck.

 

[bluescat]

I'm not endorsing this, just passing on information found in an article in the latest "Life Extension Magazine" (www.lef.org). The article claims that 150 mg dose of the supplement "Quercetin" blocks 96% of the allergic reaction (flushing, and itching,) caused by Niacin, compared to a 30% reduction by aspirin. They sell a product called "High Compliance Niacin" which contains Quercetin and other supplements.

 

[tmm99]

cantlogin,

Thank you for sharing your experience. Your story was funny and scary at the same time :->