Military Waiting List

[JOHNNIE36]

My grandson who is 24 and was going to a community college, recently de-sided to change directions. He lost a Pell grant (federal cutback) and was wanting to change everything anyway. He decided he might want to try the military, just for a change of pace and to see if it would lead him in another direction. Found out it is not so easy. There is a waiting list! Do you believe that? Couple recruiters told him that unemployement is so high that recent college grads along with others are just opting to go into the military. They are flooded with aplications. And he has a couple tatoos that may keep him out of a couple branches. Times are tough.

 

[BLS53]

The military isn't the employer of last resort it once was.

In today's economy, one could argue it should be the first career choice.

Many of the college grads will get into officer training programs.

 

[Nords]

There is a waiting list! Do you believe that? Couple recruiters told him that unemployement is so high that recent college grads along with others are just opting to go into the military. They are flooded with aplications. And he has a couple tatoos that may keep him out of a couple branches. Times are tough.

It's a short-term seasonal challenge.

He's trying to get into the military at the absolutely most positively worst time of the year, when the services get about 40%-60% of their new recruits during about 10% of the year.

If he was unlucky enough to get in at this time of the year then all of his barracks would be jammed with bodies, the trainers & simulators would all be full, the schools would be jammed to overflowing, and he might even have trouble getting the specialty/rating/MOS/AFSC/NEC he wants. Oh, and nobody would pay much attention to him (in a good way) because there are so many others competing for their time. When he went to his first duty station it's quite possible that he'd be lost in the crowd of other newbies reporting that week, and base housing would also be full to overflowing.

If, however, he wanted to join the military in Dec/Jan/Feb then the barracks would be barely above the minimum, there'd be a lot of empty time & space at the training facilities, and he'd be getting to his next command just before a lot of others are departing. Some specialties might be recruiting with extra schools, good duty stations-- and maybe even cash bonuses.

He could put his name on the waiting list or try for a delayed-entry program date of Dec/Jan. But this delay will also give him the time to re-think his life and his commitment.

It also gives him time to heal from the tattoo-removal procedure...

 

[JOHNNIE36]

It's a short-term seasonal challenge.

He's trying to get into the military at the absolutely most positively worst time of the year, when the services get about 40%-60% of their new recruits during about 10% of the year.

If he was unlucky enough to get in at this time of the year then all of his barracks would be jammed with bodies, the trainers & simulators would all be full, the schools would be jammed to overflowing, and he might even have trouble getting the specialty/rating/MOS/AFSC/NEC he wants. Oh, and nobody would pay much attention to him (in a good way) because there are so many others competing for their time. When he went to his first duty station it's quite possible that he'd be lost in the crowd of other newbies reporting that week, and base housing would also be full to overflowing.

If, however, he wanted to join the military in Dec/Jan/Feb then the barracks would be barely above the minimum, there'd be a lot of empty time & space at the training facilities, and he'd be getting to his next command just before a lot of others are departing. Some specialties might be recruiting with extra schools, good duty stations-- and maybe even cash bonuses.

He could put his name on the waiting list or try for a delayed-entry program date of Dec/Jan. But this delay will also give him the time to re-think his life and his commitment.

It also gives him time to heal from the tattoo-removal procedure...

Nords, thanks for taking the time for that reply. Why is the inlisting time tied into the time of year? Great points and I'll pass these along to my grandson. No chance of getting the LARGE tatoo removed.

 

[braumeister]

Why is the inlisting time tied into the time of year?

This is when high school students graduate.

 

[Nords]

Why is the inlisting time tied into the time of year?

Like Braumeister said, graduations from colleges & high schools.

I spent nearly eight years at training commands (as an instructor) and another four years as a student. Every summer the huge bow wave of new students began to roll through the pipeline, and the discharge at the other end usually didn't subside until January. The military tries to spread it all out a little, but they can only do so much.

Our friend's son enlisted with the Marines last year on a DEP. (http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/joining-the-marine-corps-50045.html) The advantage of the ensuing months between enlisting & reporting was 3x/week "voluntary" workouts at the military base, and plenty of benevolent mentoring from the recruiters and Reserve sergeants. (He even made sure to finish up his Eagle Scout certification because it earned him an immediate promotion to E-2.) When he got on the plane in Sep he knew what to expect. He was still in the trailing edge of the bow wave but things went smoothly. His new unit got him a few months ago with plenty of time to integrate him and finish training. In a few months he's going someplace hot & sandy (or cold & rocky) and he's ready.

Depending on the service, the time of year you start training can make a big difference. Summer is not the time to be scampering around Parris Island. OTOH summer is a very good time to start training at Great Lakes.

Today when NROTC students graduate, they get commissioned... and then they frequently get transferred to the IRR until their training pipeline starts. Unless you graduate near the top of your class (with a high ranking and a chance to pick your training dates) then you're an officer with no job, no pay, and minimal benefits. Oh, and don't get a DUI or any other trouble while you're waiting to start the training. Then you just get sent back to the IRR or even discharged.

Great points and I'll pass these along to my grandson. No chance of getting the LARGE tatoo removed.

Depending on the tattoo's size, location, and subject-- I would highly encourage him to thoroughly explore all options with someone who can show him all the latest instructions. (He'll need to get his own copies of the policies because they're frequently updated/modified and a lot of old outdated info is passed off as tribal knowledge.) If removal isn't an option then he'll still want to look into blacking it out or covering it up. Otherwise he could be permanently locked out of some specialties & billets like honor guards or instructor duty.

If people (especially supervisors) can see his tattoo then they will also tend to form an instant opinion of his capabilities. For example Dick Couch has written a number of books on SEAL and Army SF training. He's made the entirely anecdotal observation that the likelihood of graduating from those training programs is inversely proportional to the number of tattoos the student has. He thinks it has to do with self-esteem and internal motivation, but again that's just his generational opinion.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

I think the situation will grow worse in the next few years. Despite what Petraeus wants, we will shrink our presence in AF/PAK, and subsequently will shrink the size of all branches. The Navy and Air Force have been doing so for years now. The Army and USMC will soon follow suit. Unfortunately, there is no sign that the number of international commitments will decline.

In 2001, the Navy began tracking ITEMPO. I'm not sure if the other services did the same. The program was to track the number of days that people were away from their homeport. Once that number went above 200, the member was to be entitle to $100 per day. After 9/11 the part of the program with the money was abruptly stopped, when it became clear that the Navy was going to go bankrupt.

 

[Nords]

I think the situation will grow worse in the next few years. Despite what Petraeus wants, we will shrink our presence in AF/PAK, and subsequently will shrink the size of all branches. The Navy and Air Force have been doing so for years now. The Army and USMC will soon follow suit. Unfortunately, there is no sign that the number of international commitments will decline.

I learned this week that the military's Reserve/National Guard is only 75% of the size it was in 1990.

Not much more drawin' down to do. Unless the State Department is willing to share the foreign aid, then Pax Americana is going to have to start depending on a lot more satellites, UAVs, and HUMINT.

How'd you like to do a trap on an amphib deck? I think I read some speculation about that in PROCEEDINGS...

 

[heardoc]

I learned this week that the military's Reserve/National Guard is only 75% of the size it was in 1990.

...

I suspect that's because certain units were xfer'ed to the active side.
No net loss of total numbers.

 

[rescueme]

This situation happened to me many years ago, in the late 60's.

I graduated from HS in '65, at the age of 17 (yes, I started first grade when I was four).
There was no way that I would attend college, regardless of my desire (it's a "family thing", which I won't discuss on a public board).

Anyway, since I was only 17 but had a strong desire to acquire additional education, I did apply and was accepted at a local technical school that was being developed in an effort to start the first community college in our area. At the time, these schools (community/junior College) were not available in our area, as they were in the West Coast.

I took the test and was accepted into their "Data Processing" (not IT, during those years, since a lot of work was being done on unit record equipment - not computers). The course was one year, covering the course material they expected to cover in two years, once the community college was set up. They were able to do this by concentrating on the core subjects, while leaving the "filler courses" out of the program.

I was expected to finish (and receive a certificate) in June, 1966 at the age of 18. However, I was well aware of the buildup of troops for Nam and the draft was alive and well - with no lottery system at the time. Assuming you turned 18 (and was found physically fit), you were going to be drafted, unless you had some type of deferrment - which I did not.

Since the technical school was not "accredited", it would not qualify me for a deferment, as college would. However, I had a strong desire to finish up but faced the fact that in January of 1966, I would received my notification to report for my pre-induction physical, followed shortly thereafter by my induction (draft) letter.

To avoid that situation, I enlisted in the Air Force, under their (at the time) "delayed enlistment program" in the fall of 1965 when I was still age 17, in which you were committed to the AF, but did not have to immediately report for service. This would allow me to finish up my program and select a date for my induction (which was planned for two weeks after I graduated, in June 1966).

As the time came closer, I received a letter from the AF saying that my induction would be delayed three months (till September 1966). While I was a bit upset, since I had already made plans for my leaving (and I needed to leave home, but had no money to do so), I figured I would work around the problem. Unfortunately, due to the continued buildup in forces for Nam, and the backlog in training for AF personnel, I actually started basic training in February, 1967 - eight months after I originally planned for. It caused a lot of personal problems (since I was expecting on leaving home to avoid that "environment"), and added 8 months of "hell" to my existance, at the time.

Just to comment on the possibility of delay (although for different reasons). It happens...

PS: I did receive my pre-induction letter from the draft board (there was no link between agencies at the time - they had no idea that I had already signed the papers to enter the AF) in January, two weeks after I turned 18. The writing was on the wall - for a lot of folks in those days.

 

[JOHNNIE36]

Thanks for all the info regarding enlisting, future enlisting, delayed, etc. I am going to see my grandson tomorrow and I'm sure this subject will come up. I will make it happen. One hurdle is my SIL. He's a former Marine and a former recruiter. He still has a lot of contacts in the Corps and has been talking to some recruiters. I know he would like his son to become a Marine. DW is against this as she is sure he would be deployed to Afg. or Iraq. Have to watch what I say or ask about. I don't want to step on any toes, but with those two guys, you have to ask or you don't get any information.

 

[heardoc]

DW is against this as she is sure he would be deployed to Afg. or Iraq. Have to watch what I say or ask about. I don't want to step on any toes, but with those two guys, you have to ask or you don't get any information.

ummm, excluding maybe the Navy, you can bet that any recruit in any service will end up in SWA. If your DW thinks otherwise, than the military may not be an option at all.

 

[Nords]

ummm, excluding maybe the Navy, you can bet that any recruit in any service will end up in SWA. If your DW thinks otherwise, than the military may not be an option at all.

As soon as one of my shipmates was commissioned an ensign in the Supply Corps a couple years ago, the assignment officer asked "So, when would you like to deploy?"

His deployment's more than half finished, and he'll be back from Afghanistan in a few months...

 

[JOHNNIE36]

ummm, excluding maybe the Navy, you can bet that any recruit in any service will end up in SWA. If your DW thinks otherwise, than the military may not be an option at all.

The Navy was my recommendation. I think this branch would offer the best opportunity for schooling, future career, traveling, easier boot camp, etc, etc. He's got a good background in the medical field, but apparently he's just not motivated enough to move forward in that field. He aces everything, is very intelligent, a computer wiz, but in general is lost and needs to find his way soon. I hope he finds something that presents a challenge--I think this is what he needs. Living at home so long and going to school has just made him kind of a "mamas boy". He needs his a** kicked and the military will be sure to do it.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

You want easy boot camp? USAF is the way to go. Hell, they get a ribbon just for finishing it.

If you want to travel then Navy is the way to go. Sure, the other servic es travel as well, but when I was at Army Staff College, I talked to all the guys in all the services, and my travels beat theirs, hands-down.

Think the Navy won't send you to Iraq or Afghanistan? WRONG! The Army Reserves and National Guard have alll been mobilized, so guess who the de facto reserves are now? That's right, the Navy and the Air Force. What they'll do is take Sailors out of the command and send them to deploy with the Army or USMC units for a year. It's called IA (individual augmentee), and my command has sent several guys and one female in the past 2 years to various not-so-nice locales. If you get an IA, you are lucky to have more than 60 days notice.

If you want educational opportunities, then I think the Army or Air Force are the way to go. Education is almost mandatory in those services, and they'll give you the time (i.e., PCS orders) to go do it. In the Navy or USMC, a set of orders to graduate school is a good deal, but only if your career can handle it. They'd rather keep you operational.

 

[REWahoo]

You want easy boot camp? USAF is the way to go. Hell, they get a ribbon just for finishing it.

Yeah, but some of us really hated wearing that damn thing in our hair...

 

[Nords]

... but apparently he's just not motivated enough to move forward in that field. He aces everything, is very intelligent, a computer wiz, but in general is lost and needs to find his way soon.
Living at home so long and going to school has just made him kind of a "mamas boy". He needs his a** kicked and the military will be sure to do it.

Yeah, but some of us really hated wearing that damn thing in our hair...

I was just trying to decide whether the Navy or the Air Force already had their quota of that demographic of 20-somethings...

 

[Rustic23]

My nephew got back from Iraq a couple months ago. He is a Navy reservist, submarine type. He was over there running custom inspections at the air port.

 

[samclem]

DW is against this as she is sure he would be deployed to Afg. or Iraq.

Well, he very well might end up in either of those places. And there are some dangerous jobs there. But I'd bet, even with these wars on, if you look at mortality and morbidity among like demographic groups inside and outside the military, that the people in the military are less likely to die or be injured/sick. Being a "yoot" can be a high-risk event even right here at home. A lot depends on what he does with his time now and who he hangs around with.

 

[Leonidas]

Yeah, but some of us really hated wearing that damn thing in our hair...

But friendly Colonel Bob put so much effort into cutting them individually for you guys!

 

[heardoc]

As soon as one of my shipmates was commissioned an ensign in the Supply Corps a couple years ago, the assignment officer asked "So, when would you like to deploy?"

His deployment's more than half finished, and he'll be back from Afghanistan in a few months...

Certainly... but in much,much smaller numbers than the other services.
The Navy was very concerned that they are seen as having a horse in this race come budget time. That being said, the medics and logistics guys from the USN are doing a bang up job. The Army is suffering systemically, but this won't be noticed until GWOT winds down, hopefully soon.

 

[leftbucket]

Delay

"He's trying to get into the military at the absolutely most positively worst time of the year, when the services get about 40%-60% of their new recruits during about 10% of the year."

Just went to my MEPS physical and spent the day with a bunch
of young prospective enlistees.

Everyone there was 6-9 months away from going to start training,
even the Army folks.

All the best to your grandson,
LB

 

[Nords]

Just went to my MEPS physical and spent the day with a bunch of young prospective enlistees.

So, et tu, Leftbucket?

Which service greeted you with open arms and a signing bonus?

 

[leftbucket]

USAF

Sorry, Nords, it's the wild blue yonder for me.

The review board is hopefully going to vote on my chaplain candidate packet
in a month or so.

Coast Guard(Navy) chaplaincy was tempting since I work a lot
with the Coast Guard in my civilian job.

Just plain too many different uniforms in the Navy, though. Too confusing....

-LB

 

[Fireup2020]

As a current military recruiter (Navy - primarily Officers, but now also responsible for my enlisted recruiters as well) - yes, there is a waiting list on both enlisted and officer side of the house. More of my time is spent turning interested people away, that trying to get them through the enlistment/commissioning process.

For college graduates, in general the doors are closed unless you are a nurse, dentist, physician, well-educated and ordained minister/pastor/priest, etc, or possible Nuclear Power officer (technical math/science degrees and can pass the in-person nuke test). There are cases of the random "right place right time" squeaker's in for other programs for active duty officers (we had a 7 week window for CEC - mech/elec/civil/structural engineers a few weeks ago!) Navy OCS is closed right now (until further notice) - our young officers are coming out of the academy, current enrollments in BDCP (Bachelor Degree Completion Program), STA-21 (enlisted commissioning program) and NROTC - and many of the NROTC students will never see active duty - "thank you for your near-service, but we are commissioning you into the Inactive Reserve" - and no, you cannot go in as a reservist upon graduation.

It is ugly - and the downsizing on the recruiting (and active) fronts are continuing through at least FY-16 for all branches. (Army sent home about 45,000 soldiers this FY, and the Navy is sending home about 16,000 - keep in mind the percentages are common across the board as congress has mandated X for this year's military end strength.) Since 1988, there are 250,000 fewer sailors in the Navy, and this number is growing! As a choice employer (benefits, pay, quality of life, etc. - despite your personal opinion!), the military can now be very choosy in who they select to come in through the pearly gates.

Reserve Direct Commissioning programs are VERY competitive, and your degree needs to match your resume, which matches the needs of the Navy.

We are still looking for qualified people - but VERY specific people! They are truly making me "earn" my paycheck!