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Old 02-25-2013, 11:58 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Accidental Retiree View Post
From Kaiser: http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/7962-02.pdf


The other option is you just go ahead and sign up and pay your monthly premiums in 2014, and then when you do your taxes for 2014, you will receive a tax credit based on your 2014 income.

Has anyone else read anything like this?
That is my understanding too, but many retirees would have to increase their income by about $16K in order to get $12K after taxes to pay the premium up front.

For many, that would increase their MAGI and put them over the 400% limit.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:04 PM   #122
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Just a reminder: The subsidy rules key off multiples of one the two determined federal poverty levels. (not sure which one). the thing to remember in projections and planning is that the federal poverty level changes each year with partial COLA. So for projections after 2014, you will need to estimate what the future poverty level will be and base your subsidy estimates on that.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #123
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Thats true for nearly everyone. There's got to be a catch otherwise every large company would drop medical coverage and keep the difference as profit.
I hope there is... the only "catch" I see is "competitive pressure" - they want to provide more benefits to be more attractive to employees than their competitors. But given the current levels of employment, I doubt that will be a factor.

But it will only take 1 or 2 Megacorps to take the plunge, and then the others will follow... the same trend that has happened with private pensions can well happen with this.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:18 PM   #124
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i think the actual buying of insurance from the exchange will go off without a hitch based on mass. which i am in.

the getting subsidized however will be a quagmire for those that want/need to be subsidized.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:21 PM   #125
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I hope there is... the only "catch" I see is "competitive pressure" - they want to provide more benefits to be more attractive to employees than their competitors. But given the current levels of employment, I doubt that will be a factor.

But it will only take 1 or 2 Megacorps to take the plunge, and then the others will follow... the same trend that has happened with private pensions can well happen with this.
this may sound crazy but this law will encourage companies to dump people off medical coverage.

pay the fines and give the employees a fixed amount to buy coverage-sounds like a winner from a company standpoint and all perfectly legal
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:17 PM   #126
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this may sound crazy but this law will encourage companies to dump people off medical coverage.

pay the fines and give the employees a fixed amount to buy coverage-sounds like a winner from a company standpoint and all perfectly legal
Not crazy at all. This is somewhat how my Megacorp now handles retiree health insurance. One gets a pot of money for paying insurance premiums for the plans it offers to regular employers. Of course based on family size it may only last 2-4 years, but you can use some of your money to stretch it out and try to fill gap until medicare eligibility.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:28 PM   #127
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Not crazy at all. This is somewhat how my Megacorp now handles retiree health insurance. One gets a pot of money for paying insurance premiums for the plans it offers to regular employers. Of course based on family size it may only last 2-4 years, but you can use some of your money to stretch it out and try to fill gap until medicare eligibility.

actually i was talking about all employee health insurance. by codifiing what happens if a company drops health insurance totally and pays fines etc. they have in effect made it ok and legal.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:19 PM   #128
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this may sound crazy but this law will encourage companies to dump people off medical coverage.

pay the fines and give the employees a fixed amount to buy coverage-sounds like a winner from a company standpoint and all perfectly legal
It would seem that this would do more to lower health care costs than just about anything. I wouldn't care how many tickets I got if my company paid my car insurance. And I wouldn't care what the bump shop charged for an accident, either.

Health care will only get cheaper when Joe Average has to feel the pain directly.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:23 PM   #129
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It would seem that this would do more to lower health care costs than just about anything. I wouldn't care how many tickets I got if my company paid my car insurance. And I wouldn't care what the bump shop charged for an accident, either.

Health care will only get cheaper when Joe Average has to feel the pain directly.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:40 PM   #130
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Not crazy at all. This is somewhat how my Megacorp now handles retiree health insurance. One gets a pot of money for paying insurance premiums for the plans it offers to regular employers. Of course based on family size it may only last 2-4 years, but you can use some of your money to stretch it out and try to fill gap until medicare eligibility.
One difference at my megacorp its so much per month and you get to pay the rest. I expect over time the exchanges to expand to allow companies to contribute to premiums and duck the costs of managing their health care plan (although its not obvious that for large corps that it is cheaper, the insurance companies here are basically claims managers, the actual bills pass thru to the company fund, i.e. the company is essentially running its own health insurer. )
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:50 PM   #131
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Companies aren't required to provide health insurance now. Why do they?
Exactly. It's because they can buy it more cheaply than their employees can buy it for themselves (due to government tax breaks and the availability of group rates). It's government-subsidized employee compensation. And, for certain employees (e.g. those with uninsurable family members) this kind of coverage will induce them to stay at a job for very low take-home pay. They can't quit.

This dynamic changes a lot when the health insurance exchanges are up and running. It very well could kill employer-provided health care, which is a perhaps unintended but welcome by-product of ACA in my view.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:39 PM   #132
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It very well could kill employer-provided health care, which is a perhaps unintended but welcome by-product of ACA in my view.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:50 PM   #133
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I think we absolutely should decouple j*bs and health care. However, I can see my company not offering HI of 15k, paying the 3k fine, and banking the 12k for themselves - effectively giving me a 12k salary cut (actually closer to 15k or 20k gross income)

DH makes 12k a year and I get HI through him. Cost is 14k to his company. The only reason he works there are the HI benefits. So to keep "total comp" the same the company would need to double the salaries paid ... yeah, like that'll happen ! With subsidies the 12k income definitely qualifies for subsidies, but once I add in dividends, cap gains, etc I bump up to that 400% FPL pretty quickly.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:00 PM   #134
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I think we absolutely should decouple j*bs and health care. However, I can see my company not offering HI of 15k, paying the 3k fine, and banking the 12k for themselves - effectively giving me a 12k salary cut (actually closer to 15k or 20k gross income)

DH makes 12k a year and I get HI through him. Cost is 14k to his company. The only reason he works there are the HI benefits. So to keep "total comp" the same the company would need to double the salaries paid ... yeah, like that'll happen ! With subsidies the 12k income definitely qualifies for subsidies, but once I add in dividends, cap gains, etc I bump up to that 400% FPL pretty quickly.
Employers will do what they have to do (within the bounds of profitability) to attract and retain the employees they need to be competitive and stay in business.

My guess (and it's strictly a guess) is that many employers will cancel HI since it's a pita for them to manage and will offer some amount of funding to buy insurance on the exchanges. The amount of funding will depend on what they think they have to do to attract and retain the employees they need.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:29 PM   #135
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This dynamic changes a lot when the health insurance exchanges are up and running. It very well could kill employer-provided health care, which is a perhaps unintended but welcome by-product of ACA in my view.
I don't it is unintended in the long run at all. I think pretty much everyone (well, everyone reasonable) realizes that it doesn't make sense to tie health insurance to employment.

All of that said - I am skeptical of claims that if employer's don't have to pay for health insurance that will start paying employees the savings. I think it is far more likely that they quit paying for health insurance and just keep the savings....
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:32 PM   #136
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If the job market ever heats up again, I don't know that they can get away with not providing health care and not compensating.

In certain fields or industries, still pretty competitive.

There's no requirement for employers to provide a 401k match, yet plenty do it.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:47 PM   #137
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I think we absolutely should decouple j*bs and health care. However, I can see my company not offering HI of 15k, paying the 3k fine, and banking the 12k for themselves - effectively giving me a 12k salary cut (actually closer to 15k or 20k gross income)
If they could get away with this and still keep their employees, wouldn't they already have dropped health care? or at least make employees pay the bulk of it?
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:01 PM   #138
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Points well taken on contining of health care coverage. I'm just overly pessimistic when it comes to my budget. Thanks for making me feel better about it. You have valid points.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:59 PM   #139
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Companies aren't required to provide health insurance now. Why do they?
Excellent point. It is something healthy called competition in the job market. Always the best way to sort out market driven forces. It will be most interesting to see how the economics turn out when many late term baby boomers wait to try to jump on Obamacare only when they start to need medical care. How will that work out for those paying? Those pesky demographics...
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:50 AM   #140
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For the people who think that a large number of companies are going to drop health insurance because of Obamacare.... I just do not see it...

When I worked in the UK for a year, (back in 2000), companies were starting to offer health insurance to their workers.... and they have 'free' health care!!!

As long as it gives them a competative advantage (or to eliminate one from another company) to attract employees, they will offer these..

Remember that this in only health care... most large companies also offer dental, vision, STD, LTD, life, flex spending account, 401(k) with a match, sick leave and vacation time...

Now, smaller companies that have low paid employees probably do not offer these things at all and will have to make a decision on what to do.... but I think that any company that currently offers health care will not drop it to save money... heck, they never had to offer it at all and could have saved even more money, but did not...
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