Old age and medications

[braumeister]

Not exactly an early retirement issue, but some food for thought to tuck away in the back of your mind.

When my mother reached 90 years of age, she was on two or three different prescription medications. One day she looked at me and said "Don't you think I should be able to stop taking these pills now that I'm 90?"

I was momentarily taken aback, but then I realized that she was right. I replied that anyone who reaches that age should be able to do whatever the hell they want, including eating whatever they like and cutting out the annoying pills. That seemed to please her.

She told me not to say anything to her doctor, so I kept it quiet and she just tossed the pills in the garbage every month. They were all generic, so Medicare only wasted a few bucks. Her doctor never caught on, and confided privately to me that Mom was a really good patient who took care of herself.

She died recently at the age of 96, so those last six years were happier for her and no harm was done.

I mentioned this story to one of my best friends, and he told me his own story.

His mother had made a very similar comment a while back, and his reaction was the same as mine. Her pills go in the trash. The interesting thing is that after she stopped taking her meds, all her blood numbers improved noticeably. Her doctor is very happy that his prescriptions seem to be exactly right for her.

She says she feels better than she has in years. since she quit taking the pills. She is now 101 and still going strong.

Obviously, I'm not saying this as advice or recommendation, or even suggestion, but I believe that when we reach a certain age we ought to be masters of our own destiny.

 

[farmerEd]

Reminds me of my MIL who passed away 2 years ago, she was given 2-3 months to live with no chance of doing much better (stage 4 pancreatic cancer), and almost immediately declared "I am not going to bother flossing anymore". She only made it 6 weeks.

 

[MichaelB]

braumeister, not sure what is "right", but I certainly enjoy your story and fully embrace your conclusion.

 

[Moemg]

My Mom still takes her medications . She is 95 but she hands back any diagnostic test requests her Physician hands her. No more Mammogram and definetely no more Colonoscopy !

 

[jerome len]

If you're enjoying life take your pills! When my Dad was past eighty, he told all he was ready to go, why? All his friends were gone. I'm really enjoying life and take 6 pills a day.......as a result my Doc, and a good friend, tells me that I'll live years longer because of all my pills. Now, if you're 90 and ready to go, fine. But, pills help and since I really love my life, I take them.....every day. Am I 90? Nope, but I want to live to 90.

 

[Amethyst]

Sorry, but I do not seem to "get" this thread at all. Is it about stopping medication because one is very old and ready to die?

Or is it about unpleasant side-effects that one is no longer willing to tolerate (as with Art Buchwald, who deliberately quit dialysis)?

Or What? ::

Amethyst

 

[frank]

I think this thread is about freedom of choice at a certain age, where you should not have to worry about what anyone thinks. I agree with the thread.

 

[H2ODude]

Well, for my opinion on medication and the elderly, I think there's a lot of over medication going on. We care for MIL and she's one who refuses to accept that at 86 she should have any problems, so always is pushing doctors for the magic pill. Usually it's for her tremors. At one point we were sure she was Alzheimers, hallucinations and not knowing her own daughter. Changed Dr and weaned her off most of the neurologicals. Like she was 10 years ago, and not much increase in the tremors.

Every person of diminished abilities needs an advocate...and not the Dr. We joke that the MIL is our science project, we keep records of falls, when meds are changed, and then connect the dots. Yesterday she asked where were the new pills they prescribed a month or two ago; informed her we stopped them after she fell a few times and she seemed disoriented. She seemed a little baffled by that but was OK.

I just think someone needs to apply critical thinking to just why all the meds, are they really doing what they are supposed to, and are any side effects worth it.

 

[DayDreaming]

Braumeister, do you remember how many different meds she was taking and what they were for?

My father is 89 and I think he takes way too many pills but I wouldn't want him to stop taking any of them without his doctor's knowledge.

 

[rescueme]

It's a different view of one who is "looking after" an elderly "folk", vs being elderly and seeing what the med may do (I agree that all meds may not necessarily be needed).

As a T2 diabetic (due to AO exposure in Nam) and also being monitored by a separate heart care group, I'm currently on three meds.

My BT's have shown that I'm better off with the meds, than without (FWIW).

If I'm able to live a much longer life than I have been "granted", I would consider stopping the meds. Not so much that I disagree with them, but I would forget to take them (as is my habit, today).

However, I doubt if I would consider such personal advice until I reach the age of 90 (if ever)...

BTW, I'm attempting to live longer for the benefit of DW and (disabled) son. As for myself? I care less if I would leave this "mortal coil" in the next few seconds...

 

[Brat]

Looking after my parents care was an education. When my Mom was in a nursing home @ about 87 we went to her physician and reviewed her medications. We agreed that tamoxifen was no longer necessary and alendronate a swallowing risk so both were stopped, kept her Parkinson's medication. The elderly metabolize medications differently than their juniors so even dosages may change.

I believe that many seniors are taking too many pills, in part the result of seeing different physicians over the years. Not only can this make life complicated but they may not be helpful. Perhaps it is the new Federal health care statute coming on line but my current health care providers are all handing me the list of medications they think I am taking (including over the counter) to verify. I think this is great!! They are also implementing a new informatics system, maybe in the future this system can be utilized to flag health care issues.

Gotta run and take that pill.

 

[Amethyst]

Well, I'm all for not worrying about what anyone thinks about anything, once you are an adult, and as long as you harm no one; but I still don't get the point of going off meds that you need. Guess I must be missing something...oh well.


A.

I think this thread is about freedom of choice at a certain age, where you should not have to worry about what anyone thinks. I agree with the thread.

 

[Moemg]

I think this thread is more about going off or refusing meds of questionable need after a certain age . My Mom's physician wanted her to take a statin for borderline high cholesterol . She refused and frankly I think she was right to do so . It would have done nothing to enhance her quality of life at 95 .

 

[Amethyst]

This is a little different, I suspect, than just stopping medication just because you have reached a certain age. Advocacy for the impaired elderly is a very serious lack in our society, and I have no notion of a solution. You can't go back and have the good kids you didn't have when you were young.

Amethyst

Every person of diminished abilities needs an advocate...and not the Dr. We joke that the MIL is our science project, we keep records of falls, when meds are changed, and then connect the dots. Yesterday she asked where were the new pills they prescribed a month or two ago; informed her we stopped them after she fell a few times and she seemed disoriented. She seemed a little baffled by that but was OK.

I just think someone needs to apply critical thinking to just why all the meds, are they really doing what they are supposed to, and are any side effects worth it.

 

[Amethyst]

I totally agree. I don't blame the Dr., though. What if she did want to be treated, and the Dr. said, "Nah, you're too old, what's the use?"

A.

I think this thread is more about going off or refusing meds of questionable need after a certain age . My Mom's physician wanted her to take a statin for borderline high cholesterol . She refused and frankly I think she was right to do so . It would have done nothing to enhance her quality of life at 95 .

 

[Chuckanut]

We have to use some common sense even in medicine. I think many doctors, through no fault of their own, are fearful of legal problems they may have if they don't recommend another pill, procedure or test. I don't blame them.

When my mother was in her late 80's she started slipping out of her room at night for a shot of Southern Comfort. She was having trouble sleeping. Some memberts of the family were concerned she was becoming an alchoholic. We talked to a professional home-care nurse who asked us "Is this about her or is this just bothering you. She's 88." We got the point.

She kept taking her blood pressure meds. I am certain they helped keep her alive and kicking into her 80's. But, she never gave up caffein. I can't see where that hurt.

 

[Brat]

There are needed medications. As I mentioned in another thread a physician suspended a medication prescribed by another (warfarin) and shortly after my classmate had a stroke.

The real issue is what medications does one need at advanced age. I am seeing more and more physicians having the need discussion and thinking about medication risks.

Scripts now expire after a year, I suspect to cause a physician and patient to discuss its use. There is no triger in the MD's office that flags the fact that a patient's script has expired but the patient hasn't contacted him/her. The MD may assume that another health care provider has picked up the ball. Coordination of care is one of the US major health care/expense issues.

 

[Amethyst]

Could be the shots kept her alive longer. Certainly being able to sleep is important to health.

A.

When my mother was in her late 80's she started slipping out of her room at night for a shot of Southern Comfort. She was having trouble sleeping. Some memberts of the family were concerned she was becoming an alchoholic. We talked to a professional home-care nurse who asked us "Is this about her or is this just bothering you. She's 88." We got the point.

 

[Zero]

When my mother was in her late 80's she started slipping out of her room at night for a shot of Southern Comfort. She was having trouble sleeping. Some memberts of the family were concerned she was becoming an alchoholic.

My DW and I have this issue on going with her DA. How should her "sleep just doesn't come" issues be dealt with?

 

[Brat]

I am no physician but I wonder if DA is getting enough physical activity.

A slight tangent here but because pneumonia is a common disease in seniors have yours received the pneumonia vaccine?

 

[Koolau]

I do feel sorry for those of us who do not have (or will not have) advocates in our dotage. Doctors and other health professionals really can not be our advocates as they must look out for themselves (defensive medicine for want of a better term).

As far as discontinuing meds, I would remind us that "none of us get out of here alive." What we do with our own lives should be our own business and our own decision for the most part. I would only caution that decisions are usually best when they are "informed" decisions. That is why, as long as I am able, I will attempt to "parter" with my HC providers and participate in the decisions about my care. IOW, for now I am my own advocate and I take the responsibility seriously. YMMV

 

[MBAustin]

FWIW, I think more than older people are over medicated. DH has a chronic condition with new symptoms of various kinds presenting upon occasion. Generally his doctors prescribe various medicines: sometimes it helps for a while, sometimes the side effects are worse than the symptoms. Over time, he's realized that only a few of his symptoms really need to be medicated, the rest he just manages (like generations did before all of the new meds and their associated commercials over the past decade). And he feels much better overall.

PS I am NOT knocking medications that actually treat a disease, or those that really do help severe symptoms. I just think a lot of symptoms are being treated first with medications rather than considering all the options.

 

[Indigo Mule]

In college, I worked as a pharmacy clerk/technician for a large HMO. One of the duties was typing up the labels for the medications from the hand-written prescriptions. I observed that certain doctors would prescribe the same set of drugs, over and over. You could figure out which doctors were on duty just by which drugs you were typing up, before you even saw the doctors' names.

During that same span of time, my grandmother was on a downward spiral, healthwise, and on a very limited fixed income. She died with a very large balance on her credit card. I asked my mother what she had been buying--and learned it was pretty much all for her medications.

So my takeaway from that experience was that I ask my doctors WHY they are prescribing something, what it is supposed to do--how will we know it has worked, and if they think I will be taking it forever. I also ask what effects it has, what the alternatives are, what happens regarding the condition if I choose not to take pills for it, and (if I get a prescription filled) get a copy of the fine-print packet insert.

I agree that seniors (and people in general) are prescribed drugs that may not be improving their quality of life or even extending it. They are being prescribed because the doctor sees certain numbers on a test result and that particular doctor's response is to prescribe a certain dosage of a certain drug. In most cases, the pre-Internet generations are still of the "white-coated doctors are the acolytes of the god of medicine" and take whatever is given to them without any questions--with the expectation that if they do so, they will become symptom free.

 

[Nords]

Sorry, but I do not seem to "get" this thread at all. Is it about stopping medication because one is very old and ready to die?
Or is it about unpleasant side-effects that one is no longer willing to tolerate (as with Art Buchwald, who deliberately quit dialysis)?
Or What? ::

I think it's about taking the reins back from the authoritarian physicians, and [-]eating dessert first[/-] improving quality of life.

But I agree that it's easily overdone. You need a doctor who's willing to work with you and consider "slow medicine" instead of just countering every symptom with a prescription.

When my father was undergoing chemotherapy he was prescribed an entire drug-dealer's van of painkillers. Dad is the original "Iron Man" and rarely takes painkillers, so the quantities seemed a little excessive. We queried the care facility staff and were told that the prescription were for "as needed" requirements and stashed in order to be readily available.

I occasionally wonder what would happen if we showed up unannounced to conduct an audit of his prescription inventory. But then we'd probably have to find a new care facility.

 

[frank]

I think so many drugs are prescribed to counter the side effects of the original drugs taken for a problem. my brother had a heart attack 20 years ago and was put on some drugs, he then went to the doctors with this or that complaint about how he was feeling. he was taking 17 different medications two years ago, when he was diagnosed with cancer of the asophagus and was removed from all medication before being operated on. since the surgery, he is on three medications and doing fine. I think there should be a point where the doctor says, lets wean you from the medications and see how you feel.