Thoughts on TESLA

[Texas Proud]

I admit that I am gung ho on Tesla and the near future for EVs. I try to be realistic, also. I recognize that there are hurdles to jump prior to full adoption and that it will likely take 5-10 years before we hit a tipping point (when EVs will dominate the market).

Regarding Europe? I don't see that they are a car-heavy part of the world. They are now receiving Teslas and other EVs will follow, but it looks like the US and China are leading this transition. I have seen some ongoing projects for electric busses and trains that may be more popular in Europe.

A quick look... found this using 2007 stats... The US is not even in the top 10 cars per capita... US has 450 per capita...



1 Monaco 748.23

2 Iceland 667.25 2007

3 Brunei 649.14 2007

4 New Zealand 614.79 2007

5 Puerto Rico 613.98 2007

6 Italy 600.93 2007

7 Germany 566.07 2007

8 Australia 545.44 2007

9 Switzerland 523.94 2007

10 Austria 510.57 2007








http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Transport/Passenger-cars/Per-1%2C000-people

 

[oneill225]

A quick look... found this using 2007 stats... The US is not even in the top 10 cars per capita... US has 450 per capita...

Interesting numbers. Not the countries I would have expected.

Regarding the EV market, however, I think the better number to look at is total vehicle sales per country. On that front, the US and China dominate.

https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-country.html

 

[bobandsherry]

A quick look... found this using 2007 stats... The US is not even in the top 10 cars per capita... US has 450 per capita...



1 Monaco 748.23

2 Iceland 667.25 2007

3 Brunei 649.14 2007

{truncated}

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Transport/Passenger-cars/Per-1%2C000-people

I get your point, but to show Monaco as #1 when their population is 38,000 well, it just isn't really driving much of a point. The "small" suburban city I live in is nearly 3x that.

 

[bobandsherry]

But back to the Tesla stock, the recent bobber in the water has shown how much value the market gives to Musk vs. Tesla as a company and it's product.

 

[Texas Proud]

I get your point, but to show Monaco as #1 when their population is 38,000 well, it just isn't really driving much of a point. The "small" suburban city I live in is nearly 3x that.

I did not make the chart.... but I do agree that there are a few that are meaningless... but many above the USA that are large countries...

 

[kcowan]

Well, in Europe most people have to park their cars on the street. Not easy as plugging into an outlet in your own garage.

The electric grid in Europe is also weak. They are not energy hog like Americans. AC is only for the rich people.

When we stayed at the Best Western in Sisteron, they had 2 charging stations in their parking lot. That surprised me. Then I paid attention and there were a few parking spots in town that were only for charging EVs.

But very limited in total.

 

[bobandsherry]

I did not make the chart.... but I do agree that there are a few that are meaningless... but many above the USA that are large countries...

I know you didn't make the chart, but you decide what to use for making a point and that missed the mark. [emoji16]

 

[ERD50]

I know you didn't make the chart, but you decide what to use for making a point and that missed the mark. [emoji16]

But if he removed those smaller countries, he might get accused of cherry-picking the data. Plus, it's more work to edit it, and that would raise questions.

I understood the point, it was list of 10, show all 10. Decide for yourself which are relevant, support or negate the argument.

-ERD50

 

[NW-Bound]

I do find it surprising that Europeans have more cars per capita than Americans. They are supposed to take public transports.

In some mid-sized cities like La Spezia, Italy, I saw many cars parked on the streets, and traffic was not at all heavy. It looked like people kept many inexpensive older cars parked just in case they were needed.

 

[NW-Bound]

When we stayed at the Best Western in Sisteron, they had 2 charging stations in their parking lot. That surprised me. Then I paid attention and there were a few parking spots in town that were only for charging EVs.

But very limited in total.

The public chargers are usually Level 2, and can deliver only about 7 kW. That's the same power as my 5-ton home AC.

A depleted Tesla plugged into a Level 2 charger would need up to 13 hours to recharge.

The Level 2 chargers are meant for topping off while you are on an errand. One hour plugged in will get you maybe another 20 miles of driving.

 

[nash031]

The Hyundai Kona ( a small SUV, something along the size of a RAV-4) will be available for purchase in a few months. 250 mile range. Price expected to be in the low 30's. After 10,450 in credits/rebates, actual price will be in the low 20's.

The Kona is already on the road here in CA. It's nowhere near the size of a current model Rav4. It's more like the size of a Nissan Juke. Looks neat, but is really small.

 

[NW-Bound]

I have been itching to get a used EV just to run errands. Now retired, we often leave home just to get groceries, and do not drive far. I saw used LEAFs as low as $12K with 20-30K miles. I can keep one just plugged in to a wall outlet in the garage, and do not need a high-power home charger.

Still, no way I would want one to be my only car. That would have to be a hybrid or a regular car.

PS. One hour plugged into a normal wall outlet gets you 4 miles of driving.

 

[bobandsherry]

But if he removed those smaller countries, he might get accused of cherry-picking the data. Plus, it's more work to edit it, and that would raise questions.

I understood the point, it was list of 10, show all 10. Decide for yourself which are relevant, support or negate the argument.

-ERD50

Never said or indicated to cherry pick, rather perhaps re-consider the relevance and/or find another relevant source, that's all. Or if one was to cherry pick, summarize those that meet a meaningful criteria. Just seems silly to make a point with the #1 country being smaller than some rural cities

 

[bobandsherry]

I have been itching to get a used EV just to run errands. Now retired, we often leave home just to get groceries, and do not drive far. I saw used LEAFs as low as $12K with 20-30K miles. I can keep one just plugged in to a wall outlet in the garage, not even a high-power home charger.

Still, no way I would want one to be my only car. That would have to be a hybrid or a regular car.

Just dd a quick look at Carmax, interesting to see out of 52,500 cars in their database, there's a total of 144 as Electric, 1,427 hybrid.

They have 4 Tesla's, lowest price is 2016 Model S 90D with 18K for $73K.

Looking at other electric cars more in the lower price range (and under 20K mileage).... lowest price is for a 2012 Mitsubishi i-MIEV ES with 19K for $8K. A couple others that caught my eye, 2015 Leaf with 14K for $13K. 2012 Ford Focus Electric with 14K miles for $13K.

 

[corn18]

There are over 1000 used Teslas for sale on autotrader.com

 

[ERD50]

Never said or indicated to cherry pick, rather perhaps re-consider the relevance and/or find another relevant source, that's all. Or if one was to cherry pick, summarize those that meet a meaningful criteria. Just seems silly to make a point with the #1 country being smaller than some rural cities

I understand that you were not 'accusing' or anything. I'm just saying that if he did edit it, others might accuse him of cherry picking it.

I still stand behind the idea that it was a top 10 list so present it as such. If the poster wanted extra credit for edit/explain, great. But there is no need if it was just presented as what it was - a top 10 list.

-ERD50

 

[oneill225]

More good news for Tesla:

https://electrek.co/2018/10/01/tesla-production-record-q3-deliveries-crazier/

 

[NW-Bound]

Just dd a quick look at Carmax, interesting to see out of 52,500 cars in their database, there's a total of 144 as Electric, 1,427 hybrid.

They have 4 Tesla's, lowest price is 2016 Model S 90D with 18K for $73K.

Looking at other electric cars more in the lower price range (and under 20K mileage).... lowest price is for a 2012 Mitsubishi i-MIEV ES with 19K for $8K. A couple others that caught my eye, 2015 Leaf with 14K for $13K. 2012 Ford Focus Electric with 14K miles for $13K.

Tesla's seem to hold their value better than other EVs. Perhaps that's because Tesla batteries have longer life. There, I don't bad-mouth Tesla, only its CEO.

I have been following battery technology with much interest, because if lithium batteries get cheaper and last longer, that opens up a lot of applications.

I never heard of the Mitsubishi i-MIEV, so looked it up. Boy, its tiny 16-kWh battery is really limiting. I would only get one if I had a personal car museum.

 

[bobandsherry]

I never heard of the Mitsubishi i-MIEV, so looked it up. Boy, its tiny 16-kWh battery is really limiting. I would only get one if I had a personal car museum.

Hadn't seen it either, it was just the lowest priced they had so mentioned it. But 62 mile range should be enough for errands, but plan ahead as it takes almost a full day to recharge. Think I'd pass unless I could find it for $2500 or so

 

[NW-Bound]

Range of 62 miles when new. Under ideal conditions.

Now, maybe it's only good to drive down to the Safeway down the street for milk and come back.

PS. People who buy it would better be sure they could drive it home from the dealership.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

The Kona is already on the road here in CA. It's nowhere near the size of a current model Rav4. It's more like the size of a Nissan Juke. Looks neat, but is really small.

Those are the ICE Kona's you're seeing, the electrics should be here in 2 months and the range is 258, not 250 like I thought.

And as a PSA, those Mitsubishi Miev's are poor quality..save yourself some misery and get a Leaf (or Bolt)

 

[bobandsherry]

Range of 62 miles when new. Under ideal conditions.

Now, maybe it's only good to drive down to the Safeway down the street for milk and come back.

PS. People who buy it would better be sure they could drive it home from the dealership. [emoji23]

Lol, just pop a couple new rechargable D batteries in and just like new. [emoji39]

 

[Hamlet]

This thread got me looking at what is available these days in the plugin hybrid market. The Chevy Volt seemed like the car to beat, with its 50+ mile all-electric range. I was also interested in the Kia Niro. It only had 24 miles for all-electric, but it is a little crossover SUV that looks similar to what I drive now ( a 2008 Kia Rhondo). I don’t have a long commute, so most days I would probably be all electric with that range.

I’m a little stunned by what people are paying for new cars these days. I don’t see myself dropping 30k on a car anytime soon.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

This thread got me looking at what is available these days in the plugin hybrid market. The Chevy Volt seemed like the car to beat, with its 50+ mile all-electric range. I was also interested in the Kia Niro. It only had 24 miles for all-electric, but it is a little crossover SUV that looks similar to what I drive now ( a 2008 Kia Rhondo). I don’t have a long commute, so most days I would probably be all electric with that range.

I’m a little stunned by what people are paying for new cars these days. I don’t see myself dropping 30k on a car anytime soon.

Every Volt owner I've talked to loves the vehicle. I think it was consumer reports that said the top two cars for customer satisfaction was the Tesla S and the Chevy Volt. This was about 2 years ago.

 

[oneill225]

Tesla is projecting the $35,000 Model 3 in first half of 2019:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-base-model-3-35k-standard-trim-production-ramp/