Are Airlines trying to reduce demand ?

[H2ODude]

We have two overseas trips and a couple of US trips scheduled this year and this thread is making me regret that. I hate that flying is the only real option for some our travel needs. Ugh.

 

[marko]

Since airlines can wait 3 hours !! to take off, the question becomes how long can you hold it ??

.

Depends.

 

[Red Badger]

I used to ferry small planes from Florida to North Carolina back in the eighties. It was expensive to descend, land and then takeoff again. I used a H.E.R.E (human element range extender). Probably wouldn't be acceptable on a public airline though. Human Element RangeÂ*Extender - Journal - John Samford's Blog

In the army, we referred to our version a "piddle packs." Of course, being soldiers, we had a more crude world in place of piddle. We had the Blackhawks with external, wing pod mounted fuel tanks. We could stay aloft ~9 hours or so. Used a lot of piddle packs.

 

[ivinsfan]

Between the election and these kind of articles I'm starting to think "social media" might be the worst thing that ever happened on the internet.


EVERY incident that pops up turns into a front page out of control story.I've been on flights on the runway where knobs were popping up to get things out of the overheads. First one get up and is in the overhead before the FA sees, the FA says EVERYONE needs to be in their seats with belts on or we go back to the gate. Instead of sitting the person continues to rummage in their d#$n bag. Then another person gets up because why not, someone else is standing.

Passengers literally act like they can't hear or what's being said doesn't apply to them. So don't sit at the bar drinking until they call your name for final boarding. don't drink a 22oz coffee right before your get on the airplane.

If you have bladder problems and you know avail yourself of one of the many hygiene products on the market and wear it for your flight.

It's public transportation where you don't drive the bus and are not in charge and if you don't understand that, don't get on the plane.

 

[HadEnuff]

I won't bore you with the details, but my last trip to Italy in 2011 exhausted all of my desire to fly internationally. Too bad,because I enjoyed it once upon a time.
As far as domestically, anything less than a 12 hour trip in the car, I'd rather drive than fly.

For me, anymore, it's just not worth the aggravation.
And when I do fly, like from NY to Colorado to see kids, I just resign myself to being treated like a pig to slaughter, and I volunteer my seat for vouchers (as long as I can transfer them to my children), and chalk it up to the freedom of being retired.

 

[candrew]

Depends.

I see an opportunity here for Kimberly-Clark to cash-in. In addition to their current line that includes Depends Fit Flex, Depends Shield & Depends Guards, a new line called Depends Delta - providing an extra layer of protection for those unexpected delays on the tarmac.

 

[Bir48die]

Between the election and these kind of articles I'm starting to think "social media" might be the worst thing that ever happened on the internet.


EVERY incident that pops up turns into a front page out of control story.I've been on flights on the runway where knobs were popping up to get things out of the overheads. First one get up and is in the overhead before the FA sees, the FA says EVERYONE needs to be in their seats with belts on or we go back to the gate. Instead of sitting the person continues to rummage in their d#$n bag. Then another person gets up because why not, someone else is standing.

Passengers literally act like they can't hear or what's being said doesn't apply to them. So don't sit at the bar drinking until they call your name for final boarding. don't drink a 22oz coffee right before your get on the airplane.

If you have bladder problems and you know avail yourself of one of the many hygiene products on the market and wear it for your flight.

It's public transportation where you don't drive the bus and are not in charge and if you don't understand that, don't get on the plane.

+1

THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS! I am not an airline apologist. I probably have flown more than 90%+ of the people on the forum. This goes both ways. Go on some of the sites and read about drunk/drugged passengers or just plain crazies. Folks, we're putting 150+ people in a little tube trying to get along. The ability to fly all over the world for a reasonable price puts lots of different types of people in a small area.

I get more upset about the added fees. The profit center of checked baggage, etc. Even the new policy that lowest cost fares are really at risk of getting kicked off a flight is a bit demented. Seems more like class warfare.

I just try and not drink lots of liquids, go potty before the flight and as best I can book with 90 minute layovers. There's always a scramble or two with late flights but if I have to run I just put my stuff in the overhead and head to the bathroom.

 

[Fedup]

Between the election and these kind of articles I'm starting to think "social media" might be the worst thing that ever happened on the internet.


EVERY incident that pops up turns into a front page out of control story.I've been on flights on the runway where knobs were popping up to get things out of the overheads. First one get up and is in the overhead before the FA sees, the FA says EVERYONE needs to be in their seats with belts on or we go back to the gate. Instead of sitting the person continues to rummage in their d#$n bag. Then another person gets up because why not, someone else is standing.

Passengers literally act like they can't hear or what's being said doesn't apply to them. So don't sit at the bar drinking until they call your name for final boarding. don't drink a 22oz coffee right before your get on the airplane.

If you have bladder problems and you know avail yourself of one of the many hygiene products on the market and wear it for your flight.

It's public transportation where you don't drive the bus and are not in charge and if you don't understand that, don't get on the plane.

I agree with your post. I have weak bladder, so I drain myself before I get on the plane and after take off. I don't drink coffee before I get on airline either. I do that with car trip also. I don't like to stop unless it's really long ride.

 

[btdt22]

I love cruising on the rivers of the world but have given it up because of the flying conditions required to get there. Government policies, inconsiderate passengers, and excessive bottom-line oriented airlines share the blame for my decision to stop flying

 

[CaliforniaMan]

My mom used to tell us kids "we are about to leave, go to the bathroom" just before we got into the car. I still do that instinctively just before any lengthy car, train, or plane trip. It is just common sense isn't it? Sometimes the best rules for life are just to "Listen to your mother!"

 

[audreyh1]

After 911, we didn't fly except for once in about 10 years. In fact, when we did start flying again around 2012, I had to do a bit of research because the rules were so different. And airlines had consolidated. Lots of changes!

But we've flown quite a bit since, more each year it seems. And I find I don't mind it! Even those tough overnighters to Europe in economy - it's just a few hours and once you get there it's so worth it.

We have credit cards that provide free checked baggage and priority boarding and premium check-in, and we pay up for economy+ seating by subscription. Sometimes we get upgraded. Have global entry and TSA ore-check. A few perks go a long way to smoothing the rough edges.

 

[tn3sport]

Been in similar situation. tight connection through ATL. Caught my flight at the last minute. No time to use restroom before push back. We then sat for 45 min. Once we began to taxi, we were like number seventy five for take off. By the time we got to 10K and could use facilities, almost two hours had passed. And then, I had to queue up with other bladder busting geese and wait my turn.

At what point is it acceptable to just pee in your seat?

Atlanta is pretty good about waiting for ya. So, I ALWAYS stop to pee before boarding. If your connecting flight landed with a reasonable amount of time to go terminal to terminal (as little as 10 minutes), they typically will wait on you. At least Delta does. I used to run like OJ Simpson (showing my age) through the airport to get to connections, then realized when I walk at even a leisurely pace and even stop to use the bathroom, they still wait. Cause they know I'm physically in the airport and my connection landed and I'm likely on my way... I've even pushed it a little just to see how long they would wait. Sometimes I'll walk the underground tunnels instead of taking the tram. They still wait. I can do this cause the connections take no longer than the drive would... So, if they left me, I just jump on a car shuttle and drive. Again, my experience is Delta in ATL using Delta connections. YMMV.

 

[Sunset]

Between the election and these kind of articles I'm starting to think "social media" might be the worst thing that ever happened on the internet.


EVERY incident that pops up turns into a front page out of control story.I've been on flights on the runway where knobs were popping up to get things out of the overheads. First one get up and is in the overhead before the FA sees, the FA says EVERYONE needs to be in their seats with belts on or we go back to the gate. Instead of sitting the person continues to rummage in their d#$n bag. Then another person gets up because why not, someone else is standing.

Passengers literally act like they can't hear or what's being said doesn't apply to them. So don't sit at the bar drinking until they call your name for final boarding. don't drink a 22oz coffee right before your get on the airplane.

If you have bladder problems and you know avail yourself of one of the many hygiene products on the market and wear it for your flight.

It's public transportation where you don't drive the bus and are not in charge and if you don't understand that, don't get on the plane.

I agree many folks can be jerks on the plane, like bringing super large carry ons and a bunch of bags, etc.

But, while it is public transit, it's the ONLY one where you are locked inside, not allowed to use the bathroom, and they can sit there without warning for multiple hours.

This bathroom thing would not be an issue if, the airline simply allowed exceptions to the rule for when they are sitting on the tarmac, it's not like it's a surprise to the pilots as to how long the wait will be.

 

[audreyh1]

I think they must accommodate passengers who need the restroom when there are takeoff delays and passengers have been seated for a long while. It's unreasonable otherwise.

Yes, passengers can be rude and unruly, although fortunately I haven't flown with any like that.

But common sense has got to be applied.

 

[ivinsfan]

I think they must accommodate passengers who need the restroom when there are takeoff delays and passengers have been seated for a long while. It's unreasonable otherwise.

Yes, passengers can be rude and unruly, although fortunately I haven't flown with any like that.

But common sense has got to be applied.

On the surface this seems reasonable..so what is a "long time" to be seated? 30 minutes or 2 hours? And when the plane finally gets to it's takeoff slot, should the pilot just tell ATC, hold on a sec we have people in the potty? I'm not trying to be snarky, but it's the "unreasonable" part where people start having disagreements. They could have a rule that after one hour and no takeoff the plane simply goes back to the gate..which by then will of course have a different plane parked in it., so now what.

The minute someone walking around a moving plane gets tossed and hurt, it's on social media and out come the liability lawyers.

 

[kombat]

This bathroom thing would not be an issue if, the airline simply allowed exceptions to the rule for when they are sitting on the tarmac.

It's not the airline, it's FAA regulation.

While the plane is at the gate, before it's requested taxi clearance, you have a point. And I don't think airlines would prevent anyone from using the washroom in that circumstance.

But that's not the case for this story. In this story, the plane was already moving into position for takeoff. While the plane is under ATC control, FAA regulations require everyone to be in their seat and belted in. It may seem trivial if the plane is just sitting there, waiting for permission/instructions to move, but those instructions could come at any moment, and when it does, the pilot can't call back and say, "Give us a second, we've got a passenger in the washroom." When ATC tells you to move, YOU MOVE. It's a safety issue. Maybe there's another aircraft coming in, and ATC needs to get you on your way NOW.

The time for going to the washroom is before you get on the plane. Once underway, you have to stay in your seat, belted in. It's not a greedy or insensitive airline - it's a federally legislated safety requirement.

This shouldn't even be a story. I blame the entitlement generation, who've been raised to believe they're special, and exceptions can be made for them. "I know the rules say to stay seated, but you don't seem to understand, it's me."

 

[W2R]

I like my solution to these issues: I just don't choose to travel any more if I don't have to.

Nobody is telling me I can't use the toilet here in my wonderful Dream Home. Not only that, but also there are no screaming babies here, and I am not exposed to every virus known to man by being crammed in so close to people from all over. I have all the comforts of home (because this IS my home!).

Life is good, and it's even better here at home.

 

[CountryGal]

I personally don't care if I ever fly again with all the hassles. The planes are much fuller than they used to be years ago and the number of flights has been cut back. The seats are smaller and closer together. You have to check in hours before your flight and go through security with a possible pat down. No fluids can be taken through security. Connecting flights can be a real issue if your first flight is late. People flying are also ruder than they used to be. God forbid if the passenger next to you has a baby bouncing around on their lap.

 

[marko]

I've flown millions of miles (4MM to be exact) and have just about seen it all.

What has changed IMO is the general lack of courtesy and common sense on the part of passengers. It's become quite the free for all.

Just recently I saw a guy insist on sitting in first class even though he had a coach seat; it got heated and he was ejected. "I will sit wherever I want and you can't make me move!!"

This was a bit different from the guy who once insisted I was sitting in HIS seat (3A). He was gently reminded that 3A was also the gate number and his seat was 27B.

 

[jollystomper]

It's not the airline, it's FAA regulation.

While the plane is at the gate, before it's requested taxi clearance, you have a point. And I don't think airlines would prevent anyone from using the washroom in that circumstance.

But that's not the case for this story. In this story, the plane was already moving into position for takeoff. While the plane is under ATC control, FAA regulations require everyone to be in their seat and belted in. It may seem trivial if the plane is just sitting there, waiting for permission/instructions to move, but those instructions could come at any moment, and when it does, the pilot can't call back and say, "Give us a second, we've got a passenger in the washroom." When ATC tells you to move, YOU MOVE. It's a safety issue. Maybe there's another aircraft coming in, and ATC needs to get you on your way NOW.

The time for going to the washroom is before you get on the plane. Once underway, you have to stay in your seat, belted in. It's not a greedy or insensitive airline - it's a federally legislated safety requirement.

This shouldn't even be a story. I blame the entitlement generation, who've been raised to believe they're special, and exceptions can be made for them. "I know the rules say to stay seated, but you don't seem to understand, it's me."

+1

As long as the plane is boarding you can use the restrooms, no prohibitions there.

Maybe I am biased because I have flown a lot. I have seen many more passengers do stupid things and make crazy demands than I have seen flight attendants act rude. My attitude is, if I can make the flight attendants job easier, even if I am inconvenienced, it will make for a pleasant flight. And I have received enough rewards from them over the years - things which would never make the news - that makes it worthwhile.

 

[foxfirev5]

I'm strongly in the forget flying and drive where you need to go. DW not at all. So we meet somewhere in the middle. Usually the airline reservations are made strategically after a particularly arduous drive, right after a two hour traffic backup. DW will mention that she came across first class tickets for an upcoming trip for something like $437. Now wouldn't that be a better solution?
Her timing is impeccable.

 

[jollystomper]

This was a bit different from the guy who once insisted I was sitting in HIS seat (3A). He was gently reminded that 3A was also the gate number and his seat was 27B.

I was almost attacked by a passenger last year who wanted to sit in my aisle seat instead of his middle seat. His rationale was "I always get an aisle seat when I fly, I don't know what happened this time". I guess he thought he could talk me into changing my mind, but I wasn't having any of it. When the flight attendant told him to go to his seat or don't plan on flying in this plane, he gave me quite the the look and muttered something like "can't believe how selfish people are these days."

 

[Texas Proud]

On the surface this seems reasonable..so what is a "long time" to be seated? 30 minutes or 2 hours? And when the plane finally gets to it's takeoff slot, should the pilot just tell ATC, hold on a sec we have people in the potty? I'm not trying to be snarky, but it's the "unreasonable" part where people start having disagreements. They could have a rule that after one hour and no takeoff the plane simply goes back to the gate..which by then will of course have a different plane parked in it., so now what.

The minute someone walking around a moving plane gets tossed and hurt, it's on social media and out come the liability lawyers.

+1 on this....


As mentioned by others, there is plenty of time to go before boarding and that should get you the 2 or so hours needed in case you are sitting waiting for takeoff...

 

[Meadbh]

I have a rule when travelling. If you see a washroom, use it!

 

[Texas Proud]

Just to add to this....

The other video that was going around is the lady who wanted to get a baby stroller on board..... REALLY Who thinks they can keep a stroller on board an aircraft that has zero extra room

I have no idea if the steward was rude or not... but there is no way she should have expected to keep it... it is always a gate check item...